Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.
Disparity1
Posts: 61
Joined: March 20th, 2008, 4:45 pm

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby Disparity1 » June 5th, 2009, 10:09 am

Glenn Bishop wrote:And being a "professional" I will refrain from responding to the little digs like video-trash.


I'm having trouble reconciling this with the previous six paragraphs in response to a little dig like "video-trash."

Roger M.
Posts: 1497
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby Roger M. » June 5th, 2009, 3:28 pm

Glenn, your videos are awful.
You just don't want to hear the words.

I think the efforts to spare you hurt feelings do you no favors.

You need to stop posting videos and rambling, pointless blurbs telling us how good you are, and that you're a pro, and that you grew up around Jack Pyle et al.

You've lost all perspective on how you come across and I actually think it's nasty for folks to let you continue posting thinking that nothing's wrong.

Glenn Bishop
Posts: 650
Joined: March 14th, 2008, 10:52 am

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby Glenn Bishop » June 5th, 2009, 6:51 pm

I'll ask again Roger are you a professional magician?

Are you a professional card cheat?

I will respond to your above post after you answer my questions.

Disparity1
Posts: 61
Joined: March 20th, 2008, 4:45 pm

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby Disparity1 » June 5th, 2009, 7:01 pm

Glenn,

You're asking the wrong questions. It's totally irrelevant whether Roger is a professional magician. What matters is if he has enough of a foundation in the craft and an understanding of what it takes to perform. By the way, I have both, I'm a professional magician, and I agree with Roger.

Glenn Bishop
Posts: 650
Joined: March 14th, 2008, 10:52 am

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby Glenn Bishop » June 5th, 2009, 7:05 pm

No it isn't and I will ask again. Roger are you a professional magician?

Roger are you a professional card cheat?

I will respond to your post after you answered those questions.

Glenn Bishop
Posts: 650
Joined: March 14th, 2008, 10:52 am

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby Glenn Bishop » June 6th, 2009, 9:25 am

Ok then - continue to hide behind screen names and say that my video at my web site is video trash. Say what you like as I said many many times - I do not care!

And I will keep saying - no it is not.

The most interesting thing about this thread is that in the first post I gave away my book in the PDF 7 ebook format and only ONE magician said thank you.

That in itself to me is amazing - and in my opinion it speaks louder about magicians in magic today than anything else.

As I end my part in this thread - and say good luck with your magic dreams.

Just my opinion!

Curtis Kam
Posts: 560
Joined: January 18th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Waikiki
Contact:

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby Curtis Kam » June 6th, 2009, 4:29 pm

Alex, I'll take "Chinese Aphorisms" for $1000.

What is, "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt"?

User avatar
NCMarsh
Posts: 1223
Joined: February 16th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Devant, Wonder, Richiardi, Benson, DeKolta, Teller, Harbin, Durham, Caveney, Ben, Hoy, Berglas, Marceau
Location: Orlando, FL
Contact:

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby NCMarsh » June 7th, 2009, 12:18 am

Can't we all just get along?

David Ben
Posts: 222
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby David Ben » June 8th, 2009, 10:43 pm

Perhaps this thread can embark on another tangent: criticism.

As a public performer, I am subject to reviews both by professional critics, and by those who wish to express an opinion in a public area such as a Forum or Blog. (I suppose that I define professional critic as someone who is paid by an entity radio, print or television to review a performance and report it back it their audience.)

I have learned many things about reviews over the years.

First, I have learned that people love and hate the exact same pieces in any given show. So, I now follow my own muse, and trust my own instincts, doing what I do because I want to do it. Fortunately, I have enough people interested in my work that I have not had to change my ethics to fit the situation. [I always loved Penn & Tellers early business card that stated that their ethics change to fit the situation.]

Second, although the professional reviews have been substantially positive, I have had some negative reviews. I must say, however, that I learned more from the negative reviews than any of the positive ones. The negative reviews renewed my focus, particularly when it came to technical issues, issues of the craft than artistic vision.

There was only one review that really had me steamed. It was a review in a national newspaper of the Vernon biography. What irked me was not the negative review but the blatant breach of protocol. The reviewer admitted that he obtained the assignment from the newspaper based on his self-professed understanding of magic. He phoned me and then met me to be brought up to speed on the craft having confessed that he had no knowledge of magic. He then offered his services as the editor for volume two. I respectfully declined the request. He then wrote his review a negative one and showed it to me prior to publication. This was, of course, another major breach of protocol. Although I took issue with what he wrote, I did not take the bait. I simply said that I respected his right to write what he wanted.

Again, I must confess that I was annoyed. I thought about contacting the editor of the book section and expressing my concerns about the process. It was Karl Johnson, a veteran reporter and writer, who calmed me down. He uttered the ultimate authority Erdnase.

A professional rarely squeals when he gets the worst of it.

So, in my opinion, Roger is right, and Disparity1 was right to support him.

For Bob Coyne, thank you for taking the time to voice your concerns about my video clip. I have reviewed the clip dozens of times after reading your post. I believe that there is a technical problem but not with the pacing or hesitation within the context of the shuffle. I believe it is another technical issue, one that had escaped me before your note made me revisit the footage. I may have discovered it later. Your note, however, accelerated the process. It is an easy fix and, as a result, the shuffle sequence looks that much better. So, thank you.

For Glenn Bishop, please stop sulking. You and your work deserve better than that. I have seen Jack Pyle work on tape. I saw Jay Marshall many, many times. Jay was a very good friend. I believe I have a keen insight into Vernon and his work. I know enough of Billy Bishop and his stage work to realize that he was like the others in that he would not rest reviewing and improving his work. All of their work achieved various levels of sophistication because they constantly honed and perfected the material until it sang. Note a wasted movement or word. In summarizing Vernon, Jay Marshall said that Vernons greatest strength was that he exercised perfect editorial judgment. That is, he would work on something constantly, not just for a week or two but over the course of years and then ultimately over the course of his lifetime, each time reviewing previous thinking based on the new knowledge that he either discovered for himself or absorbed from others. As Persi Diaconis suggested in his contribution to the Zarrow book, Vernon had the rare ability to focus on perfecting the good.

It is time to challenge your work. Set the goal, for example, to go beyond what your father or others taught you about Triumph. Why, for example, are there no spaces between the interlaced cards after the transfer of the top card in the photos of the Stars of Magic? Its a technical question. The answer will lead you to make technical adjustments in your shuffle that will also make it more deceptive. And while you are free to continue exploring your punch culls and Triumph culls and stacks, perhaps it is time to explore other techniques with the same sort of dedication and intensity that you spent on these techniques. You may discover even better ways to achieve the same objective, or individual touches or techniques that you can import into the punch cull work or Triumph culls and stacks. And even if you dont do that, perhaps review the commentary offered in this thread about your various culls and say, Well, maybe there is something in what they said that flags an issue or technique that is worth exploring.

Just my opinion

Glenn Bishop
Posts: 650
Joined: March 14th, 2008, 10:52 am

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby Glenn Bishop » June 9th, 2009, 10:15 am

David Ben wrote:A professional rarely squeals when he gets the worst of it.

So, in my opinion, Roger is right, and Disparity1 was right to support him.

Glenn Bishop doesn't care because his audience likes what he does. And has the track record of successful shows and clients.

David Ben wrote:For Glenn Bishop, please stop sulking. You and your work deserve better than that.


Sulking - thats a good one. Since I have said over and over again that I do not care what magicians think of my work I would not call it sulking.

I have responded to a few things that I think are important in my video that I feel are important. Things like that the video's are not a performance but simply a video to show that it is possible to do these things with the triumph shuffle.

And another little thing like that the triumph shuffle is a great shuffle that helps solving the problem of culling/stacking deep and because of that I can do a little thing like get three hands of four of a kind from a slug.

I would like to see someone do that with another riffle shuffle cull/stacking methods as well.

David Ben wrote:
I know enough of Billy Bishop and his stage work to realize that he was like the others in that he would not rest reviewing and improving his work.


Then you know very little about Billy Bishop. And one of the great lessons that I learned from Billy Bishop was to test and work my skills in front of live audiences. Different audiences over time hone magicians and magic skills.

And that has nothing to do with the video I posted on my web site with the camera spot on only to show that it is possible to do several stacks and cull ideas with the triumph shuffle.

And if I may add this - since we are talking about Billy Bishop a story. I was reminded about this story by Terry Veckey and it is about a magician giving a trade show magician advice on the pass. My Dad told me this story in a conversation about performance and technical magic and how some working magician use technical magic under fire. Terry Veckey reminded me of this story not long ago.

The trade show magician was doing a show. His booth was packed and he was doing a card trick and the crowd was loving it. As this trade show magician did his card trick his hands went below the table to do the pass.

After the show a magician (if he was a performing magician or a hobby magician it is not known) told him a few things like that he should not dip below the table to do the move.

(The trade show magician whispered to the person giving his advice something that I would not say in an open forum).

However getting back to Billy Bishop who was a magician that pioneered trade show work and has a chapter on trade shows in Jay Marshalls success books.

Billy Bishop was the kind of magician that would say that he would dip his hands below the table to do the pass if he thought that that was his best way of doing what he wanted to do.

Jack Pyle would and if I remember right did dip his hands below the table once and a while to do the pass. And would use a double lift when explaining the second deal. Even when he did a great strike second and used it in his bridge deal.

And often when doing a center deal in performance he would pass the cards to the bottom and do a bottom deal instead of the center. Over the years I have heard different opinions on these performance choices that Jack Pyle used while doing a show.

Is not the entertainment part the more inportant part than the technical skill?

I think my Dad would say here if he were talking to me about this - and he did - the trade show magician had his way - Jack Pyle had his way and you got your way (my dad saying you as in me) and I (my dad) have my way of doing things.

What was important in this story was that the trade show booth was packed with people enjoying the show. The trade show magician was doing his job. The performer had his booth packed and how he did the pass was not important to the client but having a packed booth I am sure was the important part.

Getting back to my video - the only point to it I wanted to make with this video was to show that it is possible to do these moves with the triumph shuffle.


David Ben wrote:It is time to challenge your work. Set the goal, for example, to go beyond what your father or others taught you about Triumph.


Well Mr. Ben - I think that I have done that. I wrote a book about the triumph shuffle and I did a whole DVD about my punch work. The next project is a book about jog shuffle stacking and culling and routines.

However I have no idea when I am going to be done with that or If I will sell it to the magic world. I might just use it for my lectures and do the PDF download from my web site for the magicians that have gone to my lectures.


David Ben wrote:All of their work achieved various levels of sophistication because they constantly honed and perfected the material until it sang.


Would not that depend on the song and if I may add the thoughts and opinion of the song that the trade show magician was trying to sing and the difference in the way some working magician might choose to use the tools and technical moves while working?

And in my opinion in general about magic. Most technical work of magic on video or TV can be spotted - and some might say that the technical work would contain flaws. And that TV often magnifies the technical flaws of magic.

That was the opinion of Jay Marshall - Billy Bishop - and the producer of the Bozo TV show in a conversation I had about magic on TV and video with them in the New York Lounge.

To sum up my the point about my video it is only a video to show that stacking and culling is possible with the triumph shuffle.

The best part of it in my opinion is that the triumph shuffle helps to solve the problems of stacking deep. This is useful in my opinion for stacking with a riffle shuffle in stacking and culling on the fly three or more cards on the fly.

Stacking and culling four of a kind from a slug and up to three poker hands of four of a kind.

Others in this thread may not think much of this in my video but to me it is a breakthrough and that is just my opinion.


Thanks for your opinion and what I think is advice but I think I will run my magic business my way.

And that includes no longer responding in this thread.

Sebastien L.
Posts: 113
Joined: March 30th, 2008, 5:36 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby Sebastien L. » June 9th, 2009, 10:45 am

This thread saddens me in a way I can't explain. I am sorry that Mr. Ben stepped into this only to have Mr. Bishop ignore his contribution and his advice.

"Glenn Bishop doesn't care because his audience likes what he does. And has the track record of successful shows and clients."

It's nice that you're satisfied with this, but I don't see why you spend so much time here. It seems to me that you consider "I have paid shows and the audience like them" the ultimate argument against any criticism at all.

I feel like you're here mainly to tell us how successful you are, how great your father was, and how it doesn't matter what anyone else says or think, you get paid and that should shut everyone up. I don't see why people insist on engaging you, although I am glad Mr. Ben did and I was able to see a very nice, clean handling of the Stevens Cull.

I hope you will find your time away from internet boards more productive for you and your audience than the time you spent here.

Kent Gunn
Posts: 707
Joined: May 15th, 2008, 2:05 pm
Location: Florida
Contact:

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby Kent Gunn » June 9th, 2009, 10:48 am

Mr. Ben,

I thought your response was frank but compassionate. Your candor and humility shows through your writing like a beacon. After you posted I wanted to respond to your words. I was unable to come up with anything to write.

Your ability confront the criticism you received with aplomb and grace is a model I can only hope to approach. Thank you for posting your video. It was a fine example, to me, of culling. Above all this magic board nonsense; Thank you for those darned books you write. Thank you sir!

Glenn,

With neither rancor nor a drop of sarcasm, Mr. Ben gave you some stellar advice. If you'd re-read what he obviously composed with real compassion, I for one, would genuinely appreciate it. Self-criticism and the acceptance of the input of peers, even when negative, is key to improving. I know, for me, the criticism of my magic, by many, (oh so many criticize my magic!), has allowed me the chance to improve it.

Also, you never commented on the efficacy of Mr. Ben's shuffling clip. Can you view magic and not respond to it with comparison of your own work? Could you at least say, "Wow, Mr. Ben your technique is awesome!"

Not everyone on this board wants to attack you or denigrate your abilities. Reread Mr. Ben's post damn it. Consider his words with some humility for God's sake. Watch his video. Consider the fact that some other people have skills with a deck of cards that rival, and in some cases, exceed yours.

What bothers me most about you and your "I'm the son of Billy Bishop and I knew Jack Pyle recurring themes is:

I don't think all that much of a life of magic. Most of the people who have responded to your rants have real lives Glenn. They don't wave playing cards under people's noses for a living. The Glenn family is comprised of entertainers.

Over here at the Gunn house:

Dad decoded Chinese radio broadcasts right after Korea as an enlisted soldier. I served for 20 years as an enlisted sailor. My eldest boy is underway on a submarine right now. The baby boy recently returned from his first tour in Afghanistan. That's how we make our living, here at the Gunn house. But I'm real impressed with your lineage. Thanks for keeping America safe from clowns and recalcitrant birthday party-goers.

Glenn, I'm proud of my family too. I don't throw it around on everything I post. I know a couple of magicians, one or two of them is pretty darned famous. I don't feel the need to drop their names. (There's those darned restraining orders too.)

I'm not as nice or considerate as Mr. Ben, no doubt. But goddammit Glenn, go read Ben's post. He had some advice you should follow.

KG

PapaG
Posts: 230
Joined: March 13th, 2008, 2:57 pm

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby PapaG » June 9th, 2009, 11:09 am

Mr. Ben,

Many thanks for uploading your video and sharing your thoughts. I can only echo what Kent has said above. Pearls before swine.

When is the magic community likely to see your writings on the Stevens Cull (which I believe is to form part of a larger volume on Stevens and Riffle work...?) hit the shelves?

skmayhew
Posts: 99
Joined: October 6th, 2008, 3:58 pm

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby skmayhew » June 9th, 2009, 12:54 pm

Glenn Bishop wrote:That was the opinion of Jay Marshall - Billy Bishop - and the producer of the Bozo TV show in a conversation I had about magic on TV and video with them in the New York Lounge.


To hell with Marshall and Bishop. Tell me more of this Bozo guy.

Glenn Bishop
Posts: 650
Joined: March 14th, 2008, 10:52 am

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby Glenn Bishop » June 10th, 2009, 6:00 am

Sebastien L. wrote:This thread saddens me in a way I can't explain. I am sorry that Mr. Ben stepped into this only to have Mr. Bishop ignore his contribution and his advice.

Hi Sebastian I was not going to post anymore in this thread but since you are the only one on the Genii forum that has put their money down and purchased my book - Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting and block transfer triumphs.

And since the video's that I posted are explained in that book I will respond at this time with an answer. Remember when you gave me advice on my book in an honest way? That is the reason I am responding to this now and trying to answer your question. You to me are what is called a past valued customer. Not only did you put your money down you gave me some very good advice of how to improve the book - and it will be added to the book when I have time - thanks again.

I don't think that anyone in this thread has an investment like that. What most of the posts say - from what I have read is that they watched the video and said things like it was video trash.

Well since you purchased my book and perhaps watched the video please let me take some time to try to explain it to you.

Most of the technical flaws in the original video that I posted in the comments here in this thread were about the speed of the shuffle. And that they (the people watching) could tell that I was looking at the cards as I shuffled slow.

Yes I agree this is what I was doing and this was my intention. I taped the video of me shuffling slow and in a way that a magician could easily tell I was looking at the cards fall as I shuffled.

This may seem kind of strange and I am not making an excuse here. I also covered this in another thread. The reason I was shuffling so slow and being obvious when I was looking at the cards was to show the magician audience that I was indeed doing a cull/stack with the triumph shuffle.

The only way I could have been more obvious in the video was to have the camera behind the riffle shuffle and let them see the faces of the cards as I shuffled.

Well why would I do that?

To show the viewing audience that what I was doing is the triumph shuffle. And I did not just stack the hands and do triumph as a false shuffle. I wanted the magicians watching to see that I was going after cards while culling and stacking.

I wanted to advertise my book using this video and I wanted magicians (not all magicians just some) to see the shuffle that way. Yes - I wanted magicians to know it was the triumph shuffle was being used to cull and stack.

The point of the video was only to show the possibilities of the idea. What can be done. I did not post the video to show how flawlessly I can riffle shuffle at top speed.

Remember in the first part of the book I wrote something like that magicians should be up on false cuts and Erdnase. But then I said something like most of you can most likely do the moves better than I can.

Well there are a lot of magicians that can do card work better than I can. Now if you ask me can I riffle shuffle the deck at a fast speed and not look like I am looking at the cards? When I do this or any other cull with a riffle shuffle?

My answer would be no - not to the satisfaction of the members of this forum and also not to the satisfaction of myself as well. And I was a lot better doing this kind of work in my 20's.

But I would say I have done it under fire and to the satisfaction of some audiences at some shows that I have done. So as I said before in this thread - it has had some road testing and over the years - it will get better.

The best I can say about it is that riffle shuffling at speed and being able to spot the cards is the hardest part for me of any riffle shuffle culling system that I have worked on - and the most positive thing I can say is that it is a work in progress. That will get better I hope in time.

However the real point of the video was to show what was possible.

Sebastien L. wrote:"Glenn Bishop doesn't care because his audience likes what he does. And has the track record of successful shows and clients."

It's nice that you're satisfied with this, but I don't see why you spend so much time here. It seems to me that you consider "I have paid shows and the audience like them" the ultimate argument against any criticism at all.

I often don't care when there is no investment and when what others post sounds to me like an argument. However I do agree that when working it is important to please the client and the audience.

Because that is the job.

And if I may add that if an idea is road tested many times in front of an audience. And it works. And if some magician that rarely performs doesn't like it. Often I care little. Like the story I told above about the trade show magician. The man was working and doing what worked for him.

However when or if a magician might come up to me after I do a show - I am happy to listen to their advice. I would not respond in the way that the trade show magician responded. The reason is that the magician could have been a brother or worked for a future client.

When performing and working for an audience and if there is a magician in the audience I have found that it is good to practice the golden rule. I love talking magic to magicians and if I meet them at a show - I have gotten a lot of great ideas that way.

Now that may seem to contradict what I just said about investment and watching my video. At a show it is different and if I may say it this way to practice the golden rule can help get future bookings and contacts.

Sebastien L. wrote:
I feel like you're here mainly to tell us how successful you are, how great your father was, and how it doesn't matter what anyone else says or think, you get paid and that should shut everyone up. I don't see why people insist on engaging you,

Yes I have had some small success in what I would call the minor league of show business. Not even close to the success my Dad had.

In answer to me talking about my dad and the reason is that if I did not - few would know anything about him. He was a working act and very successful - however few remember him and how great he was - so I talk about him in just about every opportunity.

Now to answer the next part - I would say that yes it does matter what people have said in this thread and I do listen and respond. The magicians that said that I was shuffling the cards very slow and it looked like I was looking at the cards while culling as they fell are right.

I agreed with that a long time ago.

And I have not told anyone on this message board to shut up. And I thank the forum for not locking this thread - and I have no problem with anything that has been said in this thread.

However it would be nice to watch more video to see how another magician might solve these problems that I have addressed about culling and stacking deep and culling and stacking more than one hand. Or have someone write something a little more interesting than what has been covered - about the slowness of the shuffle or that they can see that I am spotting cards to cull in the video.

I think we covered that.

Part of the reason that I responded this last time is that because of your honesty - you would rather talk than argue and I know you are not just baiting me for the sake of argue.

I like your honest opinion you had about my book so I hope I have answered your questions.

I can't speak for the members of this forum about the why they engage me. However I asked others to post video because I would like to see how others solve these problems

Sebastien L. wrote:
I am glad Mr. Ben did and I was able to see a very nice, clean handling of the Stevens Cull.

I hope you will find your time away from internet boards more productive for you and your audience than the time you spent here.


I have not been able to view Mr. Ben's video.

And thanks again for posting giving me a chance to respond. However if you have any more questions please PM me.

May I add thanks for your opinions I will work on my shuffle and perhaps one day I might find it up to speed and post video of it again.

User avatar
mrgoat
Posts: 4257
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby mrgoat » June 10th, 2009, 11:51 am

Mr BIshop

Sebastian didn't ask you a question. He said that the way you were either deliberately ignoring, or misunderstanding Mr Ben's comments saddened him.

This means that he feels it sad that someone of Mr Ben's stature takes the time to post something for you and you ignore it.

Hope that helps.

Damian

User avatar
AJM
Posts: 1248
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby AJM » June 10th, 2009, 1:19 pm

More comebacks than Frank Sinatra....
Corner-person Begrudger

User avatar
mrgoat
Posts: 4257
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby mrgoat » June 10th, 2009, 1:29 pm

Glenn Bishop wrote:I have not been able to view Mr. Ben's video.


As was explained to you earlier, you need the latest version of Quicktime to play this.

This is available as a free download here.

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/

You will get a .exe file after you download, which you just need to double click on to install.

Should be easy, if you have any problems, feel free to PM me.

Roger M.
Posts: 1497
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby Roger M. » June 10th, 2009, 3:16 pm

AJM wrote:More comebacks than Frank Sinatra....

Your avatar effectively describes my reaction to some of the posts in this thread more than mere words ever could.

User avatar
mrgoat
Posts: 4257
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby mrgoat » June 10th, 2009, 3:18 pm

Roger M. wrote:
AJM wrote:More comebacks than Frank Sinatra....

Your avatar effectively describes my reaction to some of the posts in this thread more than mere words ever could.


Ain't that the truth.

Brad Henderson
Posts: 4196
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: austin, tx

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby Brad Henderson » June 10th, 2009, 4:26 pm

I love magic.

Matt Sedlak
Posts: 128
Joined: April 30th, 2009, 8:37 pm

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby Matt Sedlak » June 10th, 2009, 4:47 pm

Epic wall of text crits you for over....oh wrong forums. But still that is a lot of words. I just want to point out one thing that I thought was funny and no one mentioned. David Ben complimented your father when he said, "I know enough of Billy Bishop and his stage work to realize that he was like the others in that he would not rest reviewing and improving his work." He was comparing Bishop to Vernon and the rest saying that he was always striving for perfection. Of course you come back and say, "Then you know very little about Billy Bishop." Considering how much weight you put on your father I thought it was very funny but seems like most people didn't pick it up. Probably because they can't stand to try and read what you say anyway.

I mean really though this thread has been a joke since almost the beginning and if it wasn't so funny to watch your responses I would hope one of the moderators would finally put this thread out of it's misery. Although I assume you would just start another thread like you did before. This entire topic has been a joke since you insisted that Triumph was the name of the shuffle and not the trick but anyone who can actually read can tell that isn't true. Even if they can't read they could just watch the relevant portion of the Revelations tapes where Vernon talks about how his son named the trick Triumph. Oh well. You are either the greatest troll I've ever met in my life or...well I'll just leave it at that.

Chris Aguilar
Posts: 1849
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Sacramento
Contact:

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby Chris Aguilar » June 10th, 2009, 6:00 pm

Image

User avatar
Richard Kaufman
Posts: 25565
Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 10th, 2009, 7:02 pm

While I sometimes kill threads, I find ones like this actually provide entertainment value.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

User avatar
Dustin Stinett
Posts: 6912
Joined: July 22nd, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Sometimes
Location: Southern California
Contact:

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby Dustin Stinett » June 10th, 2009, 8:19 pm

There are lessons to be learned here for everyone; myself included. Add to that the fact that had I locked this thread when I was asked to (and then asked again and againand, I should add, not by any of the primary participants), we might not have enjoyed the marvelous video or sage words contributed to it by David Ben.

Dustin

Glenn Bishop
Posts: 650
Joined: March 14th, 2008, 10:52 am

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby Glenn Bishop » June 11th, 2009, 9:15 am

I finally got to watch Mr. Ben's Video. I tip my hat to you sir that was I think the best video that I saw on the web. The only video that I could compare it to in what I would call greatness and outstanding mind blowing card work would be the Charlie Miller video.

I said in this thread that I did not think that another cull could cull three or four aces and stack them at the same time and that I would like to see that. And I would be happy to be proven wrong.

Well I am happy to have been proven wrong and if I may add I have never seen anyone riffle shuffle with such expertise. At this time you have my vote of being the greatest of doing this kind of shuffle work that it has been my privilege and honor to watch. I never thought that I would get to see something that great in my lifetime.

Thanks ever so much.

I respectfully bow to the master sir.

Just my opinion.

David Ben
Posts: 222
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby David Ben » June 11th, 2009, 2:13 pm

Glenn, you are overly generous but thank you.

PapaG, I'm not sure when the book will be ready. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

Sebastien L.
Posts: 113
Joined: March 30th, 2008, 5:36 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby Sebastien L. » June 11th, 2009, 5:34 pm

mrgoat wrote:Mr BIshop

Sebastian didn't ask you a question. He said that the way you were either deliberately ignoring, or misunderstanding Mr Ben's comments saddened him.

This means that he feels it sad that someone of Mr Ben's stature takes the time to post something for you and you ignore it.

Hope that helps.



Thanks for the interpretation, but I feel I didn't express myself fully. My sadness is greater than just that. Like I said, it's difficult to explain.

I do appreciate Glenn's work and while he may not be the best exponent of riffle and culling I have ever seen, then again, neither am I. I do think sometimes his way of expressing himself about his work is counterproductive or perhaps the audience is not necessarily the right one.

Making money and having satisfied audiences is great, and is a laudable goal and accomplishment. But sometimes it seems we are talking at cross-purposes.

I do have to say that while the final result is interesting, in this thread at least. Mr. Ben took the challenge seriously and addressed it as such. What came out of it is something to behold. Speaking for myself, I will certainly be on the lookout for Mr. Ben's future output.

Glenn Bishop
Posts: 650
Joined: March 14th, 2008, 10:52 am

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby Glenn Bishop » June 11th, 2009, 9:07 pm

Sebastien I want to thank you for this above post. It is very thoughtful - giving me food for thought. I think you nailed it spot on.

Thanks for the kind words.

Glenn Bishop
Posts: 650
Joined: March 14th, 2008, 10:52 am

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby Glenn Bishop » June 22nd, 2009, 12:09 pm

By the way here are two more Video's I like! They were both different challenges.


http://www.mrhypnotist.org/video/glennb ... riumph.wmv

Here is the other video!

http://www.mrhypnotist.org/video/glennb ... riumph.wmv

Enjoy!

Glenn Bishop
Posts: 650
Joined: March 14th, 2008, 10:52 am

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby Glenn Bishop » November 19th, 2009, 6:01 pm

I was doing a lecture session not long ago and a magician that saw the video I did demonstration video of the Triumph shuffle and how it can be used to cull and then stack at the same time the four aces on the fly from a shuffled deck.

And his reaction was sort of - "What good is it?"

Well with most of the ideas I work on there is a reason that I try to work out a technique that I can use.

Imagine - a person opens a new deck of cards - the jokers and advertising cards are removed - then this person shuffles the deck. Then the deck is handed to another person and the deck is shuffled. Then the deck is handed to the performer and shuffled.

Then they play the game of cutting to a high card. The spectator cuts the deck - and cuts to a card - and the magician cuts to an ace.

The deck is shuffled by all three spectators again and then the magician. And the challenge ace cutting is repeated with the next spectator in turn.

And then it is repeated again until the magician cuts to all four aces. Or the last ace can just be produced by their favorite method.

Each ace is culled and stacked in turn - for the challenge cutting after the spectators shuffle the deck - using the same technique I use to cull and stack each ace on the fly as I do in this video.

http://www.mrhypnotist.org/video/glennb ... riumph.wmv

The inspiration was Scarnes aces the way the story was written up in his book the odds against me. The method is the triumph cull stack with the triumph card add - and then the cutting method. Was a Marlo - Zingone idea that I used in another challenge ace cutting routine.

So to answer the question - I would not use this technique in a show to cull and stack the aces on the fly as I do in my video. But I do use the same technique to cull and stack the aces on the fly - for a Challenge ace cutting routine that was inspired by the idea of Scarnes aces.

Just a few more thoughts and Just my opinion.

Mark.Lewis
Posts: 842
Joined: September 12th, 2009, 7:18 am

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby Mark.Lewis » November 19th, 2009, 9:17 pm

I wish I had been here when this thread was active. The potential for mischief making would have been tremendous and I would have had a field day. I have no idea what it was about since there was too much for me to read. Something to do with introverted card moves and who is the best fancy finger flinger or something or other.

I happen to be the world's greatest and most entertaining card magician only nobody knows it yet. My verdict on the matter would therefore have been the nearest to the holy gospel on this matter whatever the hell it was. Something to do with riffle shuffling I gather.

I have to confess that I burst out laughing when I saw the words "humility" and "David Ben" in one sentence but I suppose I had better bite my tongue. I do appreciate the anguish that David had over the negative review of his book and can perfectly understand how he would not want that chappie in question to edit his second Vernon book. Never fear though. I am sure that David would be delighted to have me edit his book instead.

Oh dear! I just got a psychic vibe that he reached for the whiskey bottle again when he read the last sentence of the above paragraph.

To make him feel better I will confess that he is considered the best magician in Canada by members of the magic community here. They do try very hard not to admire him but alas can't quite manage it yet.

Incidentally those of you were discussing what Mickey McDougall did for a living I am sorry to say that he was a svengali pitchman may God rest his weary soul. On that basis alone I know that Scarne made more money than him.

Anyway I am afraid that I cannot possibly approve of Glenn being picked on all the time. I am not sure what everybody is arguing about but everywhere I go on various forums everybody is bullying Glenn and he remains to be a punchbag. He tries to argue back but he is a gentle soul and cannot take the heat.

If people try it on me I snarl back and they all run for cover never to be seen again. Their only protection is to run to either their mother for protection or for whoever runs the forum in question.

Since Glenn doesn't seem to have such a protector I have decided to give him one. Me. And that goes for whether he is right or wrong. If he is right all well and good and if he is wrong I will twist things around so that you will all think he is right anyway. We grafters have a knack for that sort of thing. Be warned.

Glenn Bishop
Posts: 650
Joined: March 14th, 2008, 10:52 am

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby Glenn Bishop » November 19th, 2009, 9:27 pm

Hey Mark - did you ever meet Mickey McDougall? I know you met Murry the escapologist. Jay Marshall used to tell me about Mickey and what he did as an act when he did clubs and banquets.

Jay said that he also made and pitched the buda papers. He also did the buda papers as part of his banquet club show. He had one at every table and had the audience members take out a coin and he would tell them to fold it up in the papers and the coin would vanish - or change into something else.

It must have filled a lot of time with it.

Thanks for posting Mark.

Mark.Lewis
Posts: 842
Joined: September 12th, 2009, 7:18 am

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby Mark.Lewis » November 19th, 2009, 10:12 pm

I never met Mickey McDougall. I think he was well before my time and besides I have never lived in the Excited States of America.
I really don't want to live in a country where it costs 10 grand to buy a packet of aspirins for a slight headache.

I did indeed know Murray well though. He was a thief just like myself so we both had that in common.

Glenn Bishop
Posts: 650
Joined: March 14th, 2008, 10:52 am

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby Glenn Bishop » November 20th, 2009, 8:30 am

The first shuffle cull I ever worked on was the MacDougall cull out of Gamblers Don't gamble. I think that it is also in Card Mastery. The second shuffle cull I worked on was some ideas with the triumph shuffle - then I also worked on some ideas with the Stevens cull that was out of the first book Revelations.

I worked out a cull cut the aces routine where I could cull and cut the aces one at a time on the fly from a shuffled deck. In those days - I did not get the idea from Scarne and his Scarne's aces. I got the idea from watching a video - of Jack Pyle and the way he worked.

He riffle shuffled the deck on the table several times between each trick or poker deal. I thought - hey in the time that he riffle shuffled the deck several times - I could maybe cull and ace on the fly and then cut to it.

It worked.

I have had a lot of fun culling and cutting to the aces over the years. Plus I worked out a lot of ideas using the triumph shuffle to cull and stack on the fly - plus a lot more. That triumph card add on can be used to add cards onto a selected card and spell or count as a production.

Like my punch deal shuffle cull system using the jog shuffle and the cull of Jimmy Cards Molinari. The triumph shuffle cull ideas have become a backbone of my card work.

Thanks for posting Mark.

Silly Walter
Posts: 133
Joined: March 16th, 2008, 1:31 pm

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby Silly Walter » November 20th, 2009, 7:31 pm

Are you guys like married now?
Silly Walter The Polar Bear

Mark.Lewis
Posts: 842
Joined: September 12th, 2009, 7:18 am

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby Mark.Lewis » November 20th, 2009, 7:58 pm

Not really. I just feel the poor soul needs to be protected. I suppose I should read this thread to see what it is all about and see what I am protecting him from. If it is about introverted card shuffling I honestly don't know what the fuss is all about. Technique to me is only the means to an end. Some magicians think it is the end itself. Not me. I honestly can't figure how why people argue about stupid shuffles instead of arguing about how to get the punters bowing and scraping before you.

I have utterly no interest in analysing the intricate details of sleights. I leave that to the amateurs to figure out on my behalf. After all that is what they are there for. I prefer to get on with the job of amazing and entertaining people. Magicians always talk about the wrong things. I don't give a damn whether a finger should be put here or there or whether a card should be buckled in a certain way. I am only interested in the end result. I go by results not theory.

Kent Gunn
Posts: 707
Joined: May 15th, 2008, 2:05 pm
Location: Florida
Contact:

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby Kent Gunn » November 20th, 2009, 9:51 pm

Mark,

Watch Glenn's videos. He doesn't need protecting. He needs something else. I don't know what that is. Maybe you can tell us.

KG

Mark.Lewis
Posts: 842
Joined: September 12th, 2009, 7:18 am

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby Mark.Lewis » November 20th, 2009, 10:05 pm

Regrettably I am not able to watch videoclips at the moment. I do not understand computers. I have vision but no sound. I did buy speakers today but I haven't the faintest idea how to set them up. I thought I put everything in the right holes but it got nowhere.

However even if Glenn's videos are dire I shall say they are wonderful. Matter of principle you know. I don't like all of you ganging up and bullying such a gentle soul. It is a prime example of why I have detested most magicians all my life and do my utmost to upset them. In fact I consider it my life's work.

Mark.Lewis
Posts: 842
Joined: September 12th, 2009, 7:18 am

Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

Postby Mark.Lewis » November 20th, 2009, 10:28 pm

I did look at the on the fly triumph. No sound just vision. It seemed like too much shuffling to me but apart from that I don't see that much wrong with it. If it could be done with three shuffles at the most or preferably two or even more preferably one I would be more impressed.


Return to “Close-Up Magic”