Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Discuss your favorite close-up tricks and methods.
Mike Remington
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Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby Mike Remington » September 16th, 2008, 10:15 am

David - In this short thread you have two of the greatest writers in magic ever providing you with advice on what to study and the history and ethics of this art. We should all be thankful for such an opportunity. No matter our age, one of the great things in life is continuing to study and learn.

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David Thomas
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Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby David Thomas » September 16th, 2008, 10:19 am

Gosh of course I don't know everything but the handling is different from what this guy has told me. I wish they would just close this thread.......Does the handling in close up card magic have second dealing?

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby Richard Kaufman » September 16th, 2008, 10:29 am

No, the handling in Close-Up Card Magic does not have use a Second Deal.

Making minor changes to tricks so that you can publish them or sell them is common in our field.
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Harry Lorayne

Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby Harry Lorayne » September 16th, 2008, 11:35 am

What second dealing? Absolutely unnecessary. Why in the world complicate a simple thing? That's another problem with these rip-offs. Oh, David, suggestion: Stop taking what a guy "has told you" as gospel (unless he or you can prove that he knows what he's talking about). And, there's a way that your wish to close this thread can come true. Not always, but usually, IF YOU WILL STOP POSTING (posts that make people want to reply)the thread simply fades away. HL

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Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby Darryl Harris » September 16th, 2008, 11:36 am

Hmmmmm... A Second Deal? I wonder why? The second phase sets itself up, and is "self-working." I didn't see anything, or a place where a Second Deal would be necessary. I could have missed something I suppose...
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Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby El Mystico » September 16th, 2008, 12:15 pm

David;

Harry and Darryl are really worth listening to here. The effect is the same as the original. But a difficult sleight has been added; to no benefit from the point of the effect. This is a backward step.
There can be times, when performing for magicians, when using a different method for a standard effect can 'fry' them. But here, everyone knew it was the Marlo/Gardner/Lorayne effect; it didn't puzzle anyone.

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Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby NicholasD » September 16th, 2008, 5:28 pm

In addition, and only the purists will care, the shuffles were done on the table and the cuts were done in the hands. It actually made the routine look a little amateurish.

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Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby Andy Hurst » September 16th, 2008, 5:29 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:Making minor changes to tricks so that you can publish them or sell them is common in our field.


Yeah and so is making NO changes.

Andy.

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David Thomas
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Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby David Thomas » September 16th, 2008, 6:47 pm

Darryl, you missed a lot of things. I'm sorry but every card he deals on the pseudo ace bottom dealing phase is a second. There are a lot of changes from the marlo/gardner deal from what i've been told. Andy, you and many other people are obviously too ignorant to see any of them. What do you think you are harry, the GOD of card magic? Not everyone uses your handling and sometimes not everyone will listen to you, get over it. And besides, this is based off of marlo's original routine not yours in the book, so please calm down and relax everybody......This is my last post that I will make in this thread concerning the poker deal or anything else about the poker deal.

I apologize for any comments that may have seemed insulting and/or rude.

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Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby Darryl Harris » September 16th, 2008, 7:11 pm

As I mentioned in my note, I may have missed something...

But be that as it may, you call ME ignorant? You are a bit hostile, don't you think? Go back an look at the few posts I directed to you. Each and every one was polite, and never once did I resort to name calling. Now, I think you are obnoxious, and your behavior atrocious. You are a 14 year old snot, who, instead of accepting help from acknowledged experts, you react as if you, at your tender age, know more than everyone else.

Generally speaking, when you are the lone voice, chances are you are wrong, not that I expect you to see that.

As far as I am concerned, your apology is insincere and meaningless.
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Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby Joe Pecore » September 16th, 2008, 7:17 pm

And Harry is one of the Gods of card magic!!!! :grin:

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby Richard Kaufman » September 16th, 2008, 8:47 pm

Has anyone here actually met David Thomas? I'm starting to think this may be a pseudonym and that someone is just tweaking us.
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David Thomas
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Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby David Thomas » September 16th, 2008, 8:58 pm

No I'm a real person. :D

Actually, there is no one here I've met. However at the cafe there are some people there I've met, mainly Dean Dill and R. Paul Wilson. Just asking has anyone here met Mike Robinson or Jamie Allan?

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Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby Disparity1 » September 16th, 2008, 11:25 pm

David,

You can't blame the guys for missing the second deals, because the truth is that educated, experienced, reasonable people wouldn't look for such a thing in that routine. Using second deals in that routine is such an idiotic idea and a huge step backwards that nobody here would think of it. Really...taking a routine that's basically self-working and yet incredibly strong and adding 20 moves to it that accomplish basically nothing?

I probably also missed the three passes and the deck switch, too, I'm sure.

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David Thomas
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Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby David Thomas » September 17th, 2008, 12:04 am

You forgot the 9 card addon and multiple shift combined with a tabled faro stack and diagonal palm shift and oops don't forget the one handed bottom palm and 3 shuffle zarrow-pull through sequence. Did I mention the multiple spread cull?

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Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby Pete Biro » September 17th, 2008, 1:00 am

I learned a similar deal from bar magician Frank Shields. It has a better plot in that you show the hands you dealt out and each of 3 has an ace... you exclaim, "I think I blew it. When that happens I do this." Wave hand your cards and reveal the Royal Flush.

FYI... in a real poker game one night I was dealt an Ace High Royal Flush. Poker face that I am... everyone FOLDED immediately.
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Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby El Mystico » September 17th, 2008, 3:59 am

Interesting; on another thread here, just yesterday David described this trick as "a much better handling of the Marlo/Gardner poker deal that will fool magicians and KILL the laypeople"

So, here is a guy who is not listening to gods, and not contributing anything intelligent.

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Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby Philippe Billot » September 17th, 2008, 8:58 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:Has anyone here actually met David Thomas? I'm starting to think this may be a pseudonym and that someone is just tweaking us.


If I considere his syntax, he is more 14 old. So, I think he can be a joker or provocative.

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Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby Harry Lorayne » September 17th, 2008, 9:30 am

Hey Pete: Where have you been?! That's exactly how I present/taught it decades ago (see C-UCM or L:TCC, Vol. 1). You show the four other hands so that any decent hand there is pointed out and it seems as if YOU MADE IT HAPPEN. Then the three aes, one in each of three hands is pointed out, etc. Check it out. Best - HL

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Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby mrgoat » September 17th, 2008, 9:58 am

Thanks for the laugh David.

Can we send this thread to the committee for the Castle auditions. Sure an attitude like this will leap him to the top of the line.

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David Thomas
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Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby David Thomas » September 17th, 2008, 10:14 am

No problem!

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Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby Steve Bryant » September 17th, 2008, 10:55 am

What has always kept me from doing the Lorayne poker deal is the inability to do a decent bottom deal. Even an exposed bottom deal should RESEMBLE an invisible bottom deal, and I haven't taken the time to bring this to performance level. That said, Bill Malone does a fine bottom deal in a funny, extended gambling demonstration on his recent Here I Go Again! dvds from L&L, of which the Marlo-Gardner-Lorayne deal is the centerpiece. Bill includes great comedy bits, a surprise ace production, a multiple shift to get the aces the bottom for the deal, then THREE rounds of dealing using the well-known poker deal. It's called Dealing a Good Hand! on volume 2 of the set. Dang, this is good enough that I should work on that bottom deal. But then, Harry's presentation is also that good, so no excuses.

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Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby Harry Lorayne » September 17th, 2008, 4:56 pm

Hi Steve: Bill's routine is great for Bill; just wouldn't work for me, or for the average guy - you have to be as funny as Bill can be. It fits his personality very well. Re: the bottom deal. Steve, I can't do a bottom deal if my life depended on it. That's part of the concept of my presentation - I'm exposing it, so I just reach under and take the damn card. Then, and here's the point, and I know this from long experience - when I deal out that final round, there's a bit of "tongue in cheek" involved when I say, "And I won't do anything sneaky like a bottom or center deal." At one point, as I deal the card to my hand, I do a small, very small, flourish action. Back to the point: THE AUDIENCE (laymen, of course) THINK I'M DOING BOTTOM OR CENTER DEALS. As I said, I know that for a fact - I've overheard people saying so. So, your pseudo bottom deal doesn't have to resemble a decent bottom deal at all. As a matter of fact, if it did, you'd probably lose some of the overall effect! HL

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Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby Pete McCabe » September 17th, 2008, 6:04 pm

I usually, during the deal, say something like "Of course, if I could do a really good bottom deal, I wouldn't be a magicianI'd be a card sharp." The point of the presentation (my presentation, which follows Harry's), is that I'm showing the difference between the way a Card Sharp cheats with skill and the way I cheat with magic. So I don't want the bottom deal to look decent.

Harry Lorayne

Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby Harry Lorayne » September 17th, 2008, 7:00 pm

That's it, Pete - that's the point. HL

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Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby mrgoat » September 17th, 2008, 9:15 pm

Harry Lorayne wrote: That's it, Pete - that's the point. HL


Mr Lorayne, I believe the 'point' has long since vanished from this thread...

Harry Lorayne

Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby Harry Lorayne » September 17th, 2008, 11:42 pm

Not for me, mrgoat. Many believe the "point" is important enough to really explain it, pin"point" it. If you've got the "point," well good for you. HL

Harry Lorayne

Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby Harry Lorayne » September 17th, 2008, 11:43 pm

PS: In any case, it was Pete McCabe's "point" I referred to. Right? Right.

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Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby Silly Walter » September 18th, 2008, 8:01 am

What is the difference between the clip I saw and Harry Lorayne's Poker Deal?

Maybe Benzais added the second deal to the Marlo/Gardner/Benzais/Sid/Marty/Kroft Poker Deal.

As someone pointed out earlier - nothing new.
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Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby mrgoat » September 18th, 2008, 8:39 am

Harry Lorayne wrote: Not for me, mrgoat. Many believe the "point" is important enough to really explain it, pin"point" it. If you've got the "point," well good for you. HL


Mr Lorayne, I think you explained it perfectly on the first page of this thread. Just the kid didn't know who he was talking to, and should have shown you A LOT more respect.

Ah, the folly of youth!

You have been remarkably patient with him.

Damian

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Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby rkosby » September 18th, 2008, 10:25 am

David,

You keep writing that you were told the there were differences between the original and this handling. I'm inferring from that that you haven't yet read the original trick. I'm assuming you haven't looked at the references Harry gave you either. I hope you get a chance to look these up yourself, try them, then write about the differences.

Ray

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Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby Sebastien L. » September 18th, 2008, 11:19 am

Ray, I did ask David what other Poker Deals he's seen and worked on earlier in this thread.

Essentially, none of them. David is simply relying on the creators of the instant download and trusting them 100%.

He has not researched the effect in the most basic of ways, but he is perfectly willing to tell others to shut up when they question him.

Perhaps in a few years, if he hasn't given up magic completely, he will be wishing he ran into Harry Lorayne on that cruise ship, not the creator of fasttricks.com, where you can learn the glide for the low, low price of $3 (*sigh*).

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Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby Roger M. » September 18th, 2008, 1:24 pm

Silly Walter wrote:Maybe Benzais added the second deal to the Marlo/Gardner/Benzais/Sid/Marty/Kroft Poker Deal.

None of this works without the Witchiepoo slop shuffle.

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Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby Kent Gunn » September 18th, 2008, 3:36 pm

To all,

Young Mr. Thomas has, since joining this board:

Changed his handle from CardMechanic to his real name.
Apologized repeatedly in this very thread.
Like the rest of us, when he is attacked in public, he retaliates.

He's 14 and is less of a pain in the ass than many of the adults on this forum. Could we try to behave like adults in his presence? He seems to be giving it a shot.

Don't confuse enthusiasm, all to rare, with ignorance.

He is enthusiastic and probably new to participating with adults, in an on-line forum.

There is no reason to coddle him. I just think we could draw a line in the sand. Let's hold off on the sarcasm and vitrol and see how he responds to our collective responses when we're not making snide remarks.

Or we could gang up on him and let him know how we're all better-read, more informed and obviously much better in every way than an enthusiastic 14-year-old boy. Yeah, that makes me feel important.

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Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby Justin Fraser » September 18th, 2008, 3:46 pm

Roger M. wrote:
Silly Walter wrote:Maybe Benzais added the second deal to the Marlo/Gardner/Benzais/Sid/Marty/Kroft Poker Deal.

None of this works without the Witchiepoo slop shuffle.



And don't forget the good old Hofzinser slop shuffle second deal cull stack palm reverse tilt shift pull through cut...........without it the trick won't work!

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Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby Jonathan Townsend » September 18th, 2008, 4:02 pm

Hofzinser? That would be Lidsville right?

Not sure which is worse - the focus on cardgaming or the impending sid and marty kroft remake movies out soon.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

Harry Lorayne

Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby Harry Lorayne » September 18th, 2008, 4:12 pm

God, I just LOVE the humor out there!

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David Thomas
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Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby David Thomas » September 18th, 2008, 7:30 pm

Actually, Ray, I know Harry's handling and there are many HUGE differences, however, I will not write about them for various reasons. However, here are a few: perfect tabled faro false bridge strip out stack and 16 one handed shifts and greek deals, and don't forget the riffle shuffle 9 card peek control.

Harry Lorayne

Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby Harry Lorayne » September 18th, 2008, 8:41 pm

Like I said, I just LOVE the great humor out there!

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Marlo/Benzais Poker Deal Handling

Postby Richard Kaufman » September 19th, 2008, 1:22 am

I believe this thread has not run its course.
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