The Genii Forum

After 5 or 6 deals, the top card keeps sliding out of alignment with the deck, usually downwards and I sometimes deal two cards or more under the top card by accident. Has anyone got any pointers for me please? Thanks.

What kind of a grip are you using? It sounds like you are holding the deck to tight. I have found a light grip to work for me. I learned the second deal from the book Card Mastery by Mickey McDoogle.

Later I got Marlo's book called seconds centers and bottoms. When using the master grip I have noticed a tell. The back end of the top card can ride up while dealing seconds.

That is the end that is closest to the dealer.

I also have the opinion that a good second has a lot to do with timing and the timing of the take with the right hand.

I hope this helps.

Good luck.

Thanks for the reply Mr Bishop, I'm using a normal mechanics grip, how light does the grip have to be? Do you know any good resources that teaches the strike second deal in great detail? Thanks.

Charlie Miller's Strike Second had all four fingers along the right long side of the deck. Deck strongly bevelled and held very loosely. If your fingers are in the proper position, you can hold the cards loosely with no problem and they'll stay put.

Gene Maze used the Strike Second method out of Buckley's Card Control for decades and it looked perfect.

As I said I learned it from the McDoogle book. There is also a great write up of the strike second. And several very good tricks using the strike second in the Bill Simon book - I think it is called Effective Card magic.

Here is video of me doing seconds, thirds and centers. The video was taken a long time ago. Also the height of the table you practice on should be taken into consideration. The higher the table the more magicians may neck-tie the deck. You will note please that because of the height of the table in the video the deck is tilted backwards - the higher the table the further the backward tilt or - neck-tying the deck.

Because often I rest my left hand on the table when dealing - when I am sitting down that is.

http://www.mrhypnotist.org/video/glennb ... nddeal.wmv

In practice it is good to practice on many different tables for different heights - including doing it on a coffee table.

For another great video of second dealing. Check out the movie the Sting. John Scarne was the technical director and did the card work in this movie. There is a card playing part on the train where they do a close up of the hands while one of the players warms up for the card game. In this close up John Scarne does his legendary Scarne seconds - and watch his left thumb as it moves off the deck as he deals a second.

Something to think about in practice - when I use the second in a performance situation I am usually standing. I am standing because usually when I am doing a show I stand when I perform magic - even close up because it makes it easier for people to see it.

Many magicians try to find a grip that they can use so they can deal seconds - and bottoms and not change the grip. A popular grip is the Erdnase grip. Because with it you can do a push off second a strike second - a strike bottom and the Erdnase push out bottom. It is a hard grip to learn if the magician has small hands.

I have used the Erdnase grip for a while. My dad (Billy Bishop) did the push off second deal and the Erdnase Bottom deal using the Erdnase grip better than any magician that I have ever seen do it. I think there is a strike bottom using the Erdnase grip in the book the card magic of LePaul by Paul LePaul.

For bottoms I like the straddle grip. This is used in the Elliott bottom deal that is in Dai Vernons Ultimate Secrets Of Card Magic. I changed the take and I call it because of the take I use the Scissor bottom deal,

http://www.mrhypnotist.org/video/glennb ... omdeal.wmv

Enjoy.

There may be more video's you might enjoy at my web site www.bishmagic.org

Click the link for the library.

I hope this helps.

Charlie Miller's Strike Second had all four fingers along the right long side of the deck. Deck strongly bevelled and held very loosely. If your fingers are in the proper position, you can hold the cards loosely with no problem and they'll stay put.

Several texts recommand to have the first finger at the upper end of the deck acting as a stop when the top card is pulled back flush with the deck. Of course this is not possible if all four fingers are on the left side of the deck so how to be sure the top card is coming flush ?

Thanks for your help and best regards

Thomas

the brief is very small, even if it is not flush no one would tell.

I recommend the book Phantoms of the card table by David Britland and Gazzo, the second deal is explained in great detail and also many things you can achieve with it.


Fran

Simon Lovell has a booklet out called Second to None all about the second deal.

a very light mechanics grip works best for me, i practiced for a while doing it very very slowly and holding the pack with as little pressure as possible, and after a while it became almost second nature, another good way to practice is to deal seconds everytime you play any card game with friends or family, chances are they know you do magic, so just practice it in front of others in game situations, untill it becomes just like dealing the top card, i rarley ever deal the top card in games, always the second or the bottom, i am lucky that my wife encourages me and points out when something i'm doing is not natural. practice practice, practice...

For the game of Blackjack, this might help. The deck in the left hand, mechanic's grip; and the right finger approaches the card to be second dealt; the right finger is parrallel to the surface of the deck in the left hand. In this way you get a chance at more surface beneath the top card that is pulled back.

The right index finger does all the work and looks clean.

Hard to explain but try it.

Frank Garcia published a great second in Super Subtle Card Secrets. The left thumb pushes off towards the right corner diagonally. Therefore the next card doesn't look out of line with the deck.

It's not a good move unless you have a knack for it. Even "Professionals" miss it.