Tenyo for Girls

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stereo
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Tenyo for Girls

Postby stereo » June 6th, 2013, 10:09 am

That's funny ! In Japan, a company has obtained a license from Tenyo to offers a 12-month subscription of Tenyo tricks. For 1,700 Jpyen a month you get 12 Tenyo items redesigned for young women and girls.

You can look the cute props here lol :
http://tenyo-magic.blogspot.fr/2013/06/ ... ption.html

I think it's a good example of the difference of appreciation regarding business between Western collectors, who sometimes hope Tenyo decides to release again old effects for magicians, and the reality of the market and real customer traget of Tenyo in Japan.
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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 6th, 2013, 11:45 am

Cool!
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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby lybrary » June 6th, 2013, 12:19 pm

I guess that means more to collect for collectors!

But business wise I have my doubts that this will be a success. As we all know the magic community is made up of probably 95% men and only 5% women. My gut feeling is that this will not sell particularly well. I have seen the same attempts in the computer software industry for games - all set in pink for girls, but AFAIK it never was successful.
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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 6th, 2013, 12:49 pm

Chris, the company caters specifically to women. All the pieces have been chosen and designed for women and girls who've never done magic before.

Also, there are far more female magicians in Japan than there are in most other countries: girls and women have more role models for their interest in magic.
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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby Jonathan Townsend » June 6th, 2013, 12:54 pm

Hello Kitty gets a pink top hat?

I'm impressed any company is taking on that demographic so directly and I hope they do connect with their market.
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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby stereo » June 6th, 2013, 1:25 pm

Tenyo is a very big business in Japan, this success allowed the company to build business relationships with other major companies such as McDonald's, Disney and Nintendo.
They are many magical goodies with Pokemon, Mickey, Mac Donald's...
All of the Tenyo license agreements for these types of item are only valid for Japan, so none of them can be sold and found in the rest of the World.

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http://tenyo-magic.blogspot.fr/2010/05/ ... -1999.html

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http://tenyo-magic.blogspot.fr/2010/05/ ... ction.html

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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby stereo » June 6th, 2013, 1:26 pm

And Yes Jonathan ! Hello Kitty too !

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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby Brad Henderson » June 6th, 2013, 1:35 pm

I've been teaching magic to kids for over 24 years. based on my experience as to the differences between what boys and girls like about magic (will note my classes are as popular with girls, if not more so) that merely painting something pink will not insure success. I hope their products are successful, but there is more that goes into making magic appealing to girls than gender stereotyped themeing.

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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 6th, 2013, 1:57 pm

Brad, have you got a kid? I do. A girl. She likes pink and purple.

That's not going to motivate her to do magic, of course. But she does like pink and purple.
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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby Brad Henderson » June 6th, 2013, 2:06 pm

there is so much more than that.

my experience is working with kids who have no connection to magic per se, their parents and parent's friends are not magicians nor have they (as a rule) expressed any real interest in the subject.

over the past two decades I have taught many many thousands of kids. not lectures or dvd's, but hand's on interactive classes. Over that time I have learned a lot about what engages the kids and makes the magic program one of the most (if not THE most) popular event offered.

I assure you, if my approach was limited to color schemes this would never be true. I know this as I have seen others try this approach. The kids see through it and find it patronizing and insulting.

I have nothing against pink - but it's not a color which makes someone want to engage with magic.

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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby MManchester » June 6th, 2013, 2:10 pm

I just finished reading Jay Olson's article in the Aug 2012 issue of Genii regarding research into the psychology of magic at the University of British Columbia.

His team specifically investigated playing cards, and noted a difference between the genders regarding choices. Does anyone know of research into the kinds of magic enjoyed by boys compared to girls? Sounds like an interesting topic to pursue.
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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby Marty Jacobs » June 6th, 2013, 6:45 pm

I have nothing against pink - but it's not a color which makes someone want to engage with magic.


No, but it does help get tricks into the hands of young girls, especially if you're like my 2 year old niece and obsessed with anything pink.

The simple fact of the matter is that the blue and pink aisles in Toys R Us don't mix. Over here in the UK, companies like Marvin's Magic are also trying to target the female market - I see this as a BIG positive. Magic would be much better off if there were more female magicians, especially ones working close-up.

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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby Brad Henderson » June 6th, 2013, 8:25 pm

getting girls interested in magic WOULD be great. no one is arguing that.

What I'm telling you is based on 24 years of teaching magic to thousands and thousands of kids, and having program directors express amazement that girls were far more interested in the program then they would have imagined possible, that this themeing is not the path to achieve that end. At best it will increase sales to well intentioned grandparents, but it will not increase interest in American girls age 7-17.

Ultimately I ask, what do I care what anyone thinks, no skin off my nose to see people waste time and energy. but as someone who does love magic and who would like to see greater participation among young women, it frustrates me to see those with resources miss opportunities - especially when just the smallest amount of practical experience reveals the errors in the thinking behind their efforts.

the issue is deeper than colors and kittens.

I wish them the best of luck because that's all they have working for them.

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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 6th, 2013, 9:54 pm

Brad wrote, "but it will not increase interest in American girls age 7-17."

And it's not meant to. It's directed at Japanese girls and women who, if you haven't noticed on a trip over there, really like candy-colored cutie things. It's the world of Hello Kitty.

All of your information is based solely upon teaching magic to kids in the USA, so I don't think all of it applies here. In fact, I know all of it doesn't apply here.

Most Japanese boys and girls get interested in magic by joining a magic club at university. They are already bordering on adulthood. It appears to me that this line is aimed at women who were in magic clubs and have now graduated.
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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby Tom Leyland » June 6th, 2013, 10:11 pm

Awesome thread!!!! :mrgreen:

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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby lybrary » June 6th, 2013, 10:13 pm

Richard does have a point. I lived 2 years in Japan and it is true there are more girls in magic than here in the US, but it is still a much smaller group than the boys. It is also true that Japan and its people are so very different on so many levels that it is not so easy to extrapolate from US or European experience to Japan. So Japan is probably the best place to try this. Nevertheless, I think it is a long shot.
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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby Brad Henderson » June 6th, 2013, 10:31 pm

I realize cute plays big in japan. the issue though has nothing to do with 'looks' but with issues much deeper. Boys and girls are different - I would dare say, even in Japan. I myself called attention to the cultural issue as I am smart enough, though you may choose not to believe it, to realize those factors will play a huge role. 

BUT we do know that the magic dynamic IS the same when it comes to the tricks presented. So, unless japanese girls share the same values as Japanese boys regarding communication styles and other personality traits there will still most likely be a discrepancy. Having said that, magic is looked upon differently in Japan. Will that prove the greater influence? If so, would pink be needed in the first place? (And let's not fall into the trap of believing that sales translates into anything other than sales. It does not indicate an interest beyond 'that prop looks cute" or "I think my grandkids will like this.")

What I do know for certain is attempts by western companies to appeal to girls have and continue to miss the mark - precisely because of the misguided notions that color schemes and 'girly' props will change the game. It hasn't. It doesn't. It won't. 

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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 6th, 2013, 10:42 pm

Sorry, but "cute" does sell to girls and women in Japan.
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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby Brad Henderson » June 6th, 2013, 11:04 pm

yes Richard. I know. I even wrote that myself. But buying a magic trick because it has a cute image on it does not translate into an interest in magic. It means someone bought something they thought was cute.

and AS I WROTE perhaps the gender differences which influence magic tastes are different in japan. But if so, it makes me question the need for a girl driven line.

I realize though where we stand. I've been here before. Once Richard gets entrenched then one might as well forget having a discussion that might move forward, so let me save everyone some time:

I have no experience worth sharing. Everything I said is wrong. Everything Richard said is and always will be right even when I wrote the same thing. trust me, it's just easier this way.

Girls love magic. Especially pink magic. That's their favorite.

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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby Edward Pungot » June 6th, 2013, 11:07 pm

Brad, I think you're wonderful...

I worked behind the counter of a magic shop at Knott’s Berry Farm in Buena Park, CA for almost 10 years during late high school and college days. During the peak summer hours our magic shop got a lot of foot traffic from all over the world. All walks of life entered the shop. All ages, genders, ethnicities, and socio-, political, religious, and economic backgrounds. I’ve had to deal with gang members, Mormons who wanted to buy a trick but none requiring playing cards, and yes to the female.

Most of these packaged tricks hanging on the walls or enclosed in the glass case counter are fundamentally sterile. We carried the standard ADAMS tricks and gags, the magic sets, and even the Tenyo and Marvin’s Magic line. And we of course carried the main-stays, the bread-and-butter of any magic shop located in an amusement park—The Invisible & Svengali Deck. Unless the money was burning a hole in the guests (we never called them customers) pockets, it wasn’t sold unless they saw the tricked demonstrated.

Magic shops are like laboratories where the guinea pigs come to you. Magic is gender neutral in my experience. Focusing on the female, I found they equally liked the same things as the guys, even when it came to cards tricks. What I think sells a trick is the social aspects of the game and the personality of the one performing the tricks. That’s when the magic comes alive. (personality not included)

If anything, color options will simply be like the covers of i-phones and i-pads, a matter of taste and an additional option to choose from.

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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby MManchester » June 6th, 2013, 11:27 pm

On a related note, Lego sells a small kit targeted to girls called Mia’s Magic Tricks. I don't think I've ever sold one of these at our store. The product description:

Mia's practicing hard for the big Heartlake City magic show. Help her to learn tricks with cards, a magic wand, flowers, her bunny and a top hat. Build her stage for the big performance then stun the crowds with a cute performing bunny that disappears into its own magic cabinet. Amaze the crowds when the bunny disappears! Includes Mia mini-doll figure.


http://shop.lego.com/en-CA/Mia-s-Magic-Tricks-41001


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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby MManchester » June 6th, 2013, 11:37 pm

All of the Tenyo license agreements for these types of item are only valid for Japan, so none of them can be sold and found in the rest of the World.


Does this mean that Magico-Japan can't sell them on their eBay Web site, making them available to the rest of the world. If so, are they exclusively sold in stores and toy shops.
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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 7th, 2013, 12:20 am

These items are sold, as far as I can tell, exclusively by mail order through the website. You can email Hitomi--I can't imagine why she couldn't order them. I don't think there is any other way to obtain them.
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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby Marty Jacobs » June 7th, 2013, 3:15 am

the issue is deeper than colors and kittens.


Hey Brad, I'm certainly not disagreeing with you. The under-representation of women in magic, especially close-up, is a complex problem and is not going to be solved by simply making more tricks pink. However, I do think this is part of the solution.

Everyone knows that, if you want to improve a situation like this, you need to start making changes at a grass roots level. This means that we must encourage women to develop an interest in magic at a young age; hence the need for products aimed squarely at the female market.

Although it is true that magic appeals to both men and women, I don't think it is gender neutral. Far from it. You only have to look at the way most tricks are packaged to see that this is not the case.

Japan is a very different market to the US and the UK, as Richard and Chris have already pointed out. There is an established cultural phenomenon called "Kawaii", which promotes all things cute. These Tenyo products are obviously tapping into this trend.

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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby lybrary » June 7th, 2013, 6:19 am

The one question I have is how many women and women magicians were involved in the creation of this new line of Tenyo tricks for girls? Are there women in the Tenyo team besides secretaries or lobby ladies? I think one reason for past failures of attempts to address girls (not limited to magic) is the fact that these initiatives are predominantly created by men. Can I see a showing of hands for all who truly understand their wife, fiance, girlfriend or women in general?
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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby stereo » June 7th, 2013, 7:38 am

hello Brad, after reading your reply I think what I want to know is what you have discovered, because of your 24 years of teaching magic to kids, about how involves kids in magic. You look to have a great experiences in this area so tell us ! What are the tracks that you experiment and work well ?

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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby Edward Pungot » June 7th, 2013, 9:22 am

[ raises hand ]

male: power dynamics and peacocking alpha male behavior

female: nurture communal expressive aspects and concerns

Our ancient shaman predecessors were predominantly male, but they did a better job of tapping into both aspects of the gender pool.

TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT THE TENYO PICS AT THE TOP OF THIS THREAD: They are basically the same tricks dressed in drag.

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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 7th, 2013, 11:09 am

There are no women involved in Tenyo's Creative Division (for magic).

The colors and designs for these tricks were chosen by the company selling them, which one might imagine would have women involved, but I don't know that for certain.
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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby OliverM » June 10th, 2013, 10:46 am

This does not look that good to me. To me it looks like there was not much effort put into the exterior design. Just recoloring Crystal Clever in pink with hearts is not really catering to girls and women. Crystal Cleaver uses a sword, much more of a prop a boy would be drawn to. IMO cuter props would work better than just recoloring tricks. Lucky Rabbit would have been a good choice as well as Cubio and maybe a Zig Zag crayon. Plus the difficulty level of some of the tricks makes them a strange choice. Cups and Balls, Burglar Ball, Tower of Dice Trap Door and others require sleight of hand to perform. Just my 2¢.

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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby Jonathan Townsend » June 10th, 2013, 11:03 am

IMHO the basic dynamic in performing might need some refinement.

As regards the basic gender difference ... Of course they choose. What makes it work is they let us believe we choose. Not sure that's explicitly discussed so often in our culture. Hofzinser's wife would have come across as a militant suffragette if she were the one pattering while her hubby obediently turned over the cards when directed.

Someone attempting to return to the ways of the corn god or perhaps Ishtar?
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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby Jonathan Townsend » June 10th, 2013, 11:28 am

Mia also seems to have a drumkit in her bedroom.

Is that black thing supposed to be an LP turntable?

http://shop.lego.com/en-CA/Mia-s-Bedroom-3939
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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 10th, 2013, 11:56 am

The items must come from those which Tenyo is still manufacturing and has molds for. It is not possible to make special molds for these kinds of things--it costs a fortune. Thus the sword for Crystal Cleaver will be the same sword usually sold.
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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby OliverM » June 10th, 2013, 5:47 pm

The Lego magic set looks very well done and thought out. I would buy that.

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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby OliverM » June 10th, 2013, 6:14 pm

I think they "missed" on this Tenyo for Girls magic. What they could have easily done is offer some of the items from the Tenyo Magic World Set. I think the leaf paddles with the lady bugs is a no-brainer and the oil lamp okito box would have been a better choice than a pastel colored Angel's Coins. Maybe some of the props from the Tenyo Yamagami Brother Set could have been mixed in as well.

The bunny used in the fingertip trick with the top hats from the Magic World Set is the same bunny used in Lucky Rabbit. Also Tenyo re-popped the Moon Spinner and Coin through Match so I am not sure if it is true that Tenyo does not retain some of the older molds.


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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 10th, 2013, 7:05 pm

Tenyo did not make the Yamagami Brothers magic set. It was an existing set made by someone else which Tenyo imported into Japan. So, no pieces from that could be used.

I agree that the Ladybug Paddle trick from Magic World would have been nice for this, but we are not privy to who made the decisions about the tricks or why.
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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby OliverM » June 10th, 2013, 8:10 pm

The lady bugs are super cute.

I just saw a documentary on teenage magicians that were competing in LV for a yearly title. The winner was from Japan and the brothers were in the competition as well.

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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby stereo » June 11th, 2013, 4:40 am

There is no real interest for this company to release something which is allready available.
Magic World Magic Set is allready available in Japan, it's logical Kraso don't want to offer the same.

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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby Meridian » June 11th, 2013, 7:01 pm

So how many of us would buy a pink Ninja Experiment, Pink Mirage, Pink Diabolicus or Pink Ultra Tube if they were re-issued at affordable prices? Hypothetical question, but I think many of us would buy them.

Aren't the beads for the Mystery Poodle pink? Was that one popular in Japan?

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Re: Tenyo for Girls

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 11th, 2013, 8:00 pm

I don't think Tenyo has the molds for those older items: just a guess.

Ninja Experiment has a lot of handwork in its construction so I don't think you'll see that one again.
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