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Not a dumb question!

Posted: March 10th, 2013, 4:56 pm
by edshern
I guess this could be addressed to Richard K. but I ask everyone, since
I haven't seen anyone ask it yet. Also, Richard obviously has additional interest in supporting Genii, which I certainly understand and appreciate & does not need defending.

Why a second forum here at Genii? Is everyone here bailing on the Tenyo Forum at the Cafe?
Are we to make a choice? Here, or there, or both? And what of the guys we leave at the Cafe?

Please be civil in your answers. It's important to note that I ask humbly and without pointing fingers, accusations or any subtext other than knowing your thoughts on this, because the truth is I'm a bit confused.

Thanks,

Ed

PS- So I/all can get a full picture I will post this at the cafe too.

Re: Not a dumb question!

Posted: March 10th, 2013, 5:15 pm
by Chris Aguilar
Your concern seems a bit misplaced.

There is plenty of room for two tenyo forums just as there is plenty of room for multiple magic forums. One does not need to replace the other.

People will use what they like, be it one, the other, or both.

In my case, neither, since I'm not interested in Tenyo at all.

Re: Not a dumb question!

Posted: March 10th, 2013, 5:24 pm
by erdnasephile
edshern wrote:I guess this could be addressed to Richard K. but I ask everyone, since
I haven't seen anyone ask it yet. Also, Richard obviously has additional interest in supporting Genii, which I certainly understand and appreciate & does not need defending.

Why a second forum here at Genii? Is everyone here bailing on the Tenyo Forum at the Cafe?
Are we to make a choice? Here, or there, or both? And what of the guys we leave at the Cafe?

Please be civil in your answers. It's important to note that I ask humbly and without pointing fingers, accusations or any subtext other than knowing your thoughts on this, because the truth is I'm a bit confused.

Thanks,

Ed

PS- So I/all can get a full picture I will post this at the cafe too.


I'm confused as to where the confusion comes from. GF also has subforums on close-up magic, stuff to by, books, reviews, etc. Why would these necessarily conflict with similar subforums of any other magic forum?

Re: Not a dumb question!

Posted: March 10th, 2013, 6:20 pm
by Tom Leyland
edshern wrote:I guess this could be addressed to Richard K. but I ask everyone, since
I haven't seen anyone ask it yet. Also, Richard obviously has additional interest in supporting Genii, which I certainly understand and appreciate & does not need defending.

Why a second forum here at Genii? Is everyone here bailing on the Tenyo Forum at the Cafe?
Are we to make a choice? Here, or there, or both? And what of the guys we leave at the Cafe?

Please be civil in your answers. It's important to note that I ask humbly and without pointing fingers, accusations or any subtext other than knowing your thoughts on this, because the truth is I'm a bit confused.

Thanks,

Ed

PS- So I/all can get a full picture I will post this at the cafe too.


Ed,

Your question is fair.

From my discussions with Richard, The Genii Tenyo forum was created to alleviate some of TMC forum policy/rule constraints in place today.

Given Genii's history, coverage of Tenyo magic and its creators, and the collector interest in Tenyo magic; it's only natural there be a dedicated Genii Tenyo forum.

As already stated aptly in this thread, you may come and go between forums as you please; there is no competitive spirit between TMC ToJ forum and The Genii Tenyo forum. As with most things, it's all a matter of preference and taste.

Hope this answers your question!

Re: Not a dumb question!

Posted: March 10th, 2013, 6:39 pm
by edshern
Those are fair replies and I don't disagree.

I am also hoping to hear from the very small
community of 10-20 Tenyo Cafe forum users,of which
Richard was a very involved, knowledgeable and valuable
participant.

We were such a small group that it would be a shame if it
were divided.

But in the end I'm pretty sure it's about the politics
and personalities.

Ed

Re: Not a dumb question!

Posted: March 10th, 2013, 7:52 pm
by Richard Kaufman
It's not about politics or personalities. Really, it isn't. I love Tenyo, and am writing the Tenyo book, so it makes sense to have a Tenyo area on the Genii Forum.

Re: Not a dumb question!

Posted: March 10th, 2013, 9:32 pm
by edshern
Richard Kaufman wrote:It's not about politics or personalities. Really, it isn't. I love Tenyo, and am writing the Tenyo book, so it makes sense to have a Tenyo area on the Genii Forum.


I'm surprised it took you this long.

Re: Not a dumb question!

Posted: March 11th, 2013, 11:50 am
by Brad Henderson
There are many people who can contribute meaningful content on a variety of of subjects who are not allowed to participate at the cafe or, feeling that the cafe is detrimental to the advancement of magic, choose not to.

Steve Brooks does not care about magic. He has created a space which protects dealers in ethically questionable goods and encourages performance behviors which stunt magic's growth as an artistic endeavor.

If he did care about magic, his policies would be designed to encourage magical growth. They do not.

(Of course, the other option isnt that he doesn't care about magic, just that he's ignorant of what might be good for it. Either case - does not bode well for constructive conversation.)

Re: Not a dumb question!

Posted: March 11th, 2013, 12:37 pm
by Richard Kaufman
Now, now, Brad. Be nice. Don't overgeneralize.

Re: Not a dumb question!

Posted: March 11th, 2013, 2:29 pm
by Brad Henderson
I mean my post to specifically reflect my opinions of Steve Brook's practices and their impact on the growth of magic as both craft and art. There have been some great people at the cafe who have made some great posts. Sadly, many of them are now banned and those posts are now deleted - but hey, who needs Tom Stone when magicboy1269 can tell me about his rockin new Black Tigers. (ok, that was a generalization).

But, to be positive, I will say that the level of discourse at Genii (as a rule - hate to generalize!) really does set the bar for both depth and breadth of public magic internet forums. I can think of no topic which finds a deeper, more informed, treatment on the cafe over what appears here. I sometimes feel that forum participation is not a good thing for me personally, however there are enough good things to have come from my time here that I am working to maintain the proper balance, and avoid the negative aspects.

There is quality here and it is worth navigating the pitfalls in order to take advantage of that.

I cannot say that is true of the cafe.

Re: Not a dumb question!

Posted: March 11th, 2013, 7:36 pm
by Tom Leyland
Brad,

I offer you an overly simple proverb (my own, but probably said a thousand times before) that I think sums it up nicely:

Good can come from bad places and bad can come from good places.

It's all relative, ultimately it's all about our perspective on things.

;)

Re: Not a dumb question!

Posted: March 11th, 2013, 8:04 pm
by Brad Henderson
I agree - The Magic Cafe is a bad place.

Re: Not a dumb question!

Posted: March 11th, 2013, 8:14 pm
by Tom Leyland
Brad Henderson wrote:I agree - The Magic Cafe is a bad place.


You're entitled to your opinion, but that's not what I meant.

I'm just saying that there is a Yin/Yang effect to nearly everything, try and see the good in things. I think your posts convey this, just saying.