Hot Rod force

[Peter Ross]

In the January issue of Genii, David Regal reviews "Our Very Best" Hot Knife Set. At the end of the review, he implores readers to not use the classic Hot Rod force when forcing one of six colors. He said the four-out-of-six chance of spelling of the number has "bugged the hell" out of him since he was twelve.

First, if there is a better way to force one of six colors on a stick, I'd love to know.
And I'm wondering why the spelling of the colors bugs Regal so much when countless card tricks employ the spelling of numbers, including if I'm not mistaken, tricks in Regal's own books. I've always found the Hot Rod method to be effective. If the spectator does indeed need to spell a number to land on the color, one nice thing about that, is when they think back they realize the numbers have different spellings, and they never consider counting from the other end of the stick. I've never been caught out performing Hot Rod. And if you make the popcycle stick and rubber band ones (from Copperfield/Kaufman), you can easily switch out the stick for a "real" one to give the spectator.

[Robert77]

I for one would welcome another version of the force, and I'm not being facetious.

[katterfelt0]

I for one would welcome another version of the force, and I'm not being facetious.

* Suggest a reason for the color, rather than forcing one - perhaps you see that color predominantly in their aura, or it is the color associated with their astrological sign. An idea along the same lines is in Pete McCabe's Scripting Magic, where he suggests asking for a spectator's birthstone.
* Use some variation of Jonathan Friedman's Safe Six force: no spelling required.
* Do some other trick that involves the requisite color, then tie that in with the knife/hot rod/Popsicle stick.
* Another stratagem from Scripting Magic: if the color you need is red, tell a story about how the knife was used in a heinous crime and is now haunted by the blood of the victim. In theory this could be adapted to other colors, justifying them with different stories - e.g. blue could represent sky, or 'the blues' (either the music genre or the feeling).
* Just say your favorite color is [name the color]. You could ask a participant for theirs first. You might get lucky.

Just brainstorming and remembering resources. I'm sure there are more ways to handle this.

[Peter Ross]

None of these seem as effective and fair as the Hot Rod force. There are six colors, so choosing a number between one and six is eminently fair and easy to understand. If it ain't broke...

[katterfelt0]

None of these seem as effective and fair as the Hot Rod force. There are six colors, so choosing a number between one and six is eminently fair and easy to understand. If it ain't broke...

I was just throwing out ideas for Robert, a couple of which I've used quite successfully. If they're not your cup of tea - like the hot rod force isn't mine - then rock and roll with what works for you.

[Peter Ross]

I was just throwing out ideas for Robert, a couple of which I've used quite successfully. If they're not your cup of tea - like the hot rod force isn't mine - then rock and roll with what works for you.

That's cool. I'm just curious as to what it is about the spelling in the hot rod force that is different/worse for some people than spelling out to a card in a card trick.

[Robert77]

I was just throwing out ideas for Robert, a couple of which I've used quite successfully. If they're not your cup of tea - like the hot rod force isn't mine - then rock and roll with what works for you.

That's cool. I'm just curious as to what it is about the spelling in the hot rod force that is different/worse for some people than spelling out to a card in a card trick.

- I've always liked the hot rod, particularly in the lucite forms I grew up with. However spelling not so much as it seems more contrived than counting, particularly when spelling a number rather than just counting it out.

- Nowadays I'm prone to think that the Hot Rod as used over the past decades may be rather 'blown'. But maybe not.

I do like the idea of alternate means of 'choosing', though in the original form it seems like you as the mage can make any of the color changes happen; whereas mentioning a specific color (aura/favorite color, whatever) seems much less magical assuming the audience isn't hip to the force.

I DO think that invoking a murder/crime story not with the hot rod, but with a color changing knive that than be red, is an awesome idea.

Who knows, maybe I'm just running when no one is chasing.

[Doug Thornton]

The spelling part is the lousy part.
I don't know Jonathan Friedman's Safe Six Force.

My idea is to have the spectator cover "any 3 adjacent colors with 3 fingers," then continue from there to narrow it down.

If they cover the force, you tell them to lift one finger, and if they uncover the force, you say, "We'll use the one you uncovered..."
If they don't, you say, "That leaves just 2 colors," then use Magician's Choice with the remaining force color and null color.

If they initially don't cover the force, you use PATEO for the remaining 3 colors. (Magician picks first, picking the 2 null colors, spectator eliminates one.)

I asked Meir Yedid about this. He said he never saw it but thought it a good idea.
Am I a genius? I doubt it. My idea might be even more procedural.

[Robert77]

The spelling part is the lousy part.
I don't know Jonathan Friedman's Safe Six Force.

My idea is to have the spectator cover "any 3 adjacent colors with 3 fingers," then continue from there to narrow it down.

Doug your post gives me lots of of food for thought.

What happens if they pick the 3 on the wrong side though? Seems a bit odd to ask them to reselect after that.

[MagicbyAlfred]

When the Hot Rod is done smoothly (I'm talking about the moves, not the force), it is a truly mind-boggling trick for laymen. They won't even remember the manner in which the color was chosen, or care. What they will be thinking about is, how in the world could this rod that had many different colors on both sides change into a rod with all the same color on both sides? That is the mystery they will contemplate, not how the color was arrived at. By the time the revelation has occurred, there will have been sufficient time misdirection, coupled with the impact of the effect, that they will not question whether their "choice" of a color was fair.

IMO the main problem with Hot Rod is how cheap and cheesy most of them look and are, most being made from plastic and/or other garbage materials. I stopped doing the trick for several years for that reason, until I came across the ones made by Rings N' Things; the rod is steel and features genuine Swarovski crystals. Beautiful, classy, and magical looking. Twenty-five dollars, but more than worth it. Once you have one of these, you will wonder how you ever could have used the typical el cheapo prop.
https://www.rnt2.com/steel-hot-rod-colo ... stals.html

[Robert77]

When the Hot Rod is done smoothly (I'm talking about the moves, not the force), it is a truly mind-boggling trick for laymen. They won't even remember the manner in which the color was chosen, or care. What they will be thinking about is, how in the world could this rod that had many different colors on both sides change into a rod with all the same color on both sides? That is the mystery they will contemplate, not how the color was arrived at.

IMO the main problem with Hot Rod is how cheap and cheesy most of them look and are, most being made from plastic and/or other garbage materials. I stopped doing the trick for several years for that reason, until I came across the ones made by Rings N' Things; the rod is steel and features genuine Swarovski crystals. Beautiful and magical looking. Twenty-five dollars, but more than worth it. Once you have one of these, you will wonder how you ever could have used the typical el cheapo prop.
https://www.rnt2.com/steel-hot-rod-colo ... stals.html

You apparently mean RNT2, not the original Rings N' Thingz (pardon my misspellings.)

The point of the lucite hot rod, unlike all the paddles which came before it, is that you could see all there is to see. With a machined, opaque, metal rod the mystery goes away; it comes across is just a well engineered puzzle, mechanical or otherwise.

$25.00 sheesh.

[MagicbyAlfred]

Yes, I did mean RNT2, as shown by the link I provided as a courtesy. But the product is beautiful like I said, and in my opinion is a bargain at $25. Quality comes at a price. And the mystery does not go away with the metal rod one bit, at least in my experience of performing it many times. But then I tend to put more stock in the reactions of my laymen audiences than the categorical opinions of magicians.

[Q. Kumber]

The best presentation for the Hot Rod I've come across is by Leslie Melville. There is no counting or asking for numbers. I believe his routine is to be published in an upcoming book and released at the Blackpool convention, published by Magick Enterprises of Sheffield owned by Russell Hall.

[Anthony Vinson]

I usually have a Hot Rod somewhere in my bag, and have long used some variation of the phrase, recited tongue-in-cheek, "Now some say numbers have mystical properties. You choose a number between one and six, and we'll use it to cast a mystical spell." If spelling is required, it's justified. Haven't been challenged since stumbling on the phrasing. Works for me. YMMV.

Av

[Bob Farmer]

Use Equivoque. Touch three. Pick up two. Hand me one. Etc.

[Q. Kumber]

Use Equivoque. Touch three. Pick up two. Hand me one. Etc.

That's the best suggestion so far.

[Philippe Billot]

That's the PATEO!

E viva Roy Baker

[Joe Lyons]

I agree with Regal

I for one would welcome another version of the force, and I'm not being facetious.

* Suggest a reason for the color, rather than forcing one - perhaps you see that color predominantly in their aura, or it is the color associated with their astrological sign. An idea along the same lines is in Pete McCabe's Scripting Magic, where he suggests asking for a spectator's birthstone.
* Use some variation of Jonathan Friedman's Safe Six force: no spelling required.
* Do some other trick that involves the requisite color, then tie that in with the knife/hot rod/Popsicle stick.
* Another stratagem from Scripting Magic: if the color you need is red, tell a story about how the knife was used in a heinous crime and is now haunted by the blood of the victim. In theory this could be adapted to other colors, justifying them with different stories - e.g. blue could represent sky, or 'the blues' (either the music genre or the feeling).
* Just say your favorite color is [name the color]. You could ask a participant for theirs first. You might get lucky.

Just brainstorming and remembering resources. I'm sure there are more ways to handle this.

Or rub a (same) colored handkerchief on it - then vanish the handkerchief.
Or say you bought a multi-jeweled pin for your wife but she only likes diamonds.

May the force not be with you.

[Bob Farmer]

Here's the wording for the Equivoque. Tell the spectator to touch three of the colors. Do not say "select" three colors, say "touch." If you say "select," it will look like those are the colors in play. By using the word, "touch," you now have the ability to interpret the choices as you require.

If he touches three colors and one of them is the force color, say, "I want you to imagine you pick up two of those colors and hold them, one in each hand. Which two would you pick up?"

If he names two nulls, leaving the force color, say, "We have eliminated all the colors except one (name the force color)."

If he picks up the force color and a null, say, "Hand me one." If he says he has handed you the force color, say, "Do you want to change your mind?" Go with his decision.

If you end up "holding" the force color, say, "You have eliminated all the colors except for the one you selected for me."

If you end up "holding" a null color, say, "You have eliminated all the colors except for the one you selected and now hold."

If at the beginning, he touches three null colors, say, "That leaves (name the three colors he did not select, including the force color)." Now proceed as above.

Recap: he made all the decisions. You made none. He had the opportunity to change his mind. You had no control over any of this. Now finish the routine.

One comment on the metal vs clear plastic Hot Rod. Today, I'd go with the clear plastic because it shows there are no internal workings. I have small LED lights that can change color with a remote control. I think with a metal rod the audience will simply assume there is some internal mechanism to change the colors even if this idea is nuts.

[MagicbyAlfred]

...Or say you bought a multi-jeweled pin for your wife but she only likes diamonds.

I like that one. Or she only likes emeralds, or rubies, or amethyst, whatever the case may be as far as matching the single color you have.

BTW, whenever I perform for kids or mixed kids and adults, I choose a little girl, and ask which is her favorite crystal among all the multi-colored ones. Eight or nine out of 10 times if the little girl is between the age of 5 and about 13, they choose the pink one (which is the single color I have on mine). But if they don't choose pink -- let's say they go with blue, then I say, "Yes that's a pretty one, my favorite is the green one. But as my special magical helper, I'm going to have you choose a color nobody else could have known, so please choose a number between one and six." And I just proceed with the standard force. I have never had anyone question it. Now just because no one says anything that doesn't necessarily mean they are convinced it was a fair choice, but like I said, once the magic happens, they are focused on the stunning effect, not how the color was chosen.

If I am wearing a suit or sports jacket, or a long sleeve shirt with fairly loose sleeves (which is usually the case when I perform), then I finish off by vanishing the hot rod. This not only adds a very nice magical kicker, but it heads off any possibility of a request to examine the rod at the pass.

[Bob Farmer]

Here's another idea. You show the Hot Rod (preferably the metal version) to consist of all (say) red colors on both sides (yes, this is the opposite of the usual procedure). You say that this is the prototype of a mind-reading machine developed from alien technology recovered from the site of the Roswell flying saucer crash in 1947.

Then you show six cards: on the face of the cards are different colors, one color to a card. The cards are mixed face down and the spectator decides how to mix them up. Then the cards are dealt in a face-down row.

The mind-reading hot rod is held over the cards and waved back and forth a couple of times and then suddenly both sides now show six different colors.

The rod is tabled and the row of cards turned over: the colors match the order on the rod.

Show the rod same color both sides. False shuffle the six cards or do a shuffle that starts with a mix then moves the colors into the order you need.

Now use Paul Curry's "Swindle of Sorts" to apparently let the spectator mix the cards further. See:

https://www.lybrary.com/paul-curry-pres ... 22383.html

Lay the cards out in a row. Finish as noted above.

[Robert77]

This is great! Old wine in new bottles. I'm saving all these suggestions to try out. Thanks again and keep them coming.

[Jim Gerrish]

In 2016 I released my "21st Century Gemstones" in The Wizards' Journal # 32-05. Jumping Gems and Hot Rod are combined in one routine. The spectator gets to remove a wooden stick from a pouch, makes sure it is quite plain and ordinary, and then hands it to the magician. A white diamond gemstone appears on one side of the stick. Then on both sides. Then another gemstone appears on the opposite end of the stick. The two white gemstones apparently slide together on one end. Finally they change color and become a red ruby, before disappearing all together and leaving just an empty wooden stick which is again dropped into the spectator's hand. A second empty stick is removed from the pouch and in an instant, it is covered with six different color gem stones on both sides of the stick. The spectator chooses a number from one to six and that number selects one of the gemstones. Suddenly all the gemstones become the same color as the chosen one, on both sides of the stick. Just as suddenly, the gemstones disappear and a second plain wooden stick is dropped into the spectator's hand.

Obviously, in my version you make your own wooden gemstone sticks (directions given). NOTE: the standard 1-6 Spell/Count Force is NOT used in this routine. If interested:

https://www.magicnook.com/WIZJ32/wizj32-05Gemstones.htm

[Richard Kaufman]

I forget the year, but it's many decades ago, Tenyo produced a paddle set and it must have had a dozen different paddles. It introduced new principles, and one of these was a new method of forcing for Hot Rod.

[Robert77]

I forget the year, but it's many decades ago, Tenyo produced a paddle set and it must have had a dozen different paddles. It introduced new principles, and one of these was a new method of forcing for Hot Rod.

I just saw that item in a lookup I did the other day. Probably at an online auction house, IIRC it was very expensive. It looked amazing and I wish I had a set.

[edit] found it. https://tenyo-magic.blogspot.com/2010/0 ... ction.html

[but wait, there's more!] There are several sets for sale on ebay, but they're in the $1200+ range. And it appears that the instructions are in Japanese. Apparently Max Maven wrote the instructions. Yet another reason to miss him

[Jack Shalom]

Some may not like this, but my approach is a psychological force that works with people whose psychology I know.

"Each of these colors represents an emotion: red is anger, yellow is fear, green is envy, white is dominance, purple is fickleness, and blue is loyalty. Which of these describes you?"

A middle-aged married woman will pick blue for loyalty. At least among the people I know. Adjust accordingly. The idea is five negative choices and one positive one. Also put the force color last--it will be more likely to be remembered and therefore picked. Much better than using cards or spelling IMO.

[Edwin Corrie]

There was another thread here about the Hot Rod a LONG time ago with some good ideas and information:

https://forums.geniimagazine.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=10671&p=111744&hilit=force+regal#p111744

I remember making a note of it because I really liked the following suggestion from David Regal:

David Regal said:
"A better option - buy three hot rods, each with a different color force. Ask the spectator if she prefers diamonds, rubies, or emeralds? Pull out the appropriate Hot Rod, point out all the different gems, then say "But YOU like emeralds" (or whatever), and do the effect."

[erdnasephile]

Thanks to Mr. Corrie for referencing that thread--there's a great routine in there from Steve Dusheck using this: https://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S4043 which may be of interest to the OP.

As a tangential thought: another trick that I feel suffers from the "Hot Rod Force" is Derek Dingle's version of "The Sympathetic Cards."

[Richard Kaufman]

Max wrote the English language instructions for the Tenyo Paddle Set, not the original Japanese instructions. He did not translate them, but wrote them from scratch and contributed a few new tricks.

[Grippo's Wish]

Use Equivoque. Touch three. Pick up two. Hand me one. Etc.

Another option (better IMO) is to ask for "odd or even", eliminate accordingly and proceed from there. Basically the same without the "touching".

[Bob Farmer]

Odd or even will work, but seems more structured than simply allowing the spectator to touch three colors, so I don't think it's better.

[Edwin Corrie]

Thanks to Mr. Corrie for referencing that thread--there's a great routine in there from Steve Dusheck using this: https://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S4043 which may be of interest to the OP.

As a tangential thought: another trick that I feel suffers from the "Hot Rod Force" is Derek Dingle's version of "The Sympathetic Cards."

The Genii Forum thread referenced above has a couple of posts by Steve Dusheck (appearing as "Guest") who mentions the Zodiac Force, which he devised for his marketed trick "Dingbat" as a substitute for the traditional Hot Rod force. Unfortunately the booklet which erdnasephile links to seems to be out of print.

[Brad Henderson]

It seems to me that we should always attempt to get the strongest response when using a force. Which in this case is a direct selection

‘Here are six gems. They are each different colors. (Show rod but so that the force color is most visible). If I asked you to name one, which would you pick?”

If your force is red or blue you have a good chance they will name it. Of course, if red we push them on the selection faster than if blue. As per Maven and his thoughts on the red and blue force.

But what if they don’t name the correct one?

“Green? Interesting. That suggests you are a creative person who has an affinity for deep thinking. I tend to choose white. I won’t tell you what that means. But I don’t want you to think this is some personality test - so we are going to pick on in a very unusual manner.

“There are six gems - give me a number between one and six.”

Again - statistically most people will name three or four. Especially if you push them a little. With a little emphasis on between you likely eliminate one and six. .

(If they pick either three or four , then use it and be sure to point out had they picked two it would have been yellow, or one it would have been white).

If they pick neither then use the verbal seed you planted ‘now, I said we were going to pick the color in an unusual way. So you don’t think this is some math trick we aren’t going to count, but spell your number.”

(Now we have had four chances to get a direct hit.

But even if we dont - who cares

The EFFECT is that a stick of different colors changes to all the same.

If you do that and do that well, you have a solid trick.

The force is a killer icing, but it’s not the cake.

Make it about the change and they will forget the process with the colors. Unless you nail the color then you can reiterate that and play it up.

But the effect is the change.

If you present the selection as conversational and off hand, then you can effectively make it disappear as irrelevant if it leads to a less than ideal setting

Alternative - I’ve used this for the erdnase ace trick.

Do you have a favorite color? Green? Interesting. Mine’s blue. Watch the stick I spin and they all change to blue.

Tamariz uses this ruse as well in other contexts.

If they name the force you have a miracle. If not, you have a good trick

But the key is always go for the miracle. It won’t happen all the time - but then again, neither do miracles.

[Brad Henderson]

I should add, if you have a Taytelbaum or Walker style stick which allows for a double color change than you have twice as many opportunities to have one of the force colors named. The above Tamariz ruse is great for that. You do your color first then theirs.

[MagicbyAlfred]

...I came across the ones made by Rings N' Things; the rod is steel and features genuine Swarovski crystals. Beautiful, classy, and magical looking. Twenty-five dollars, but more than worth it. Once you have one of these, you will wonder how you ever could have used the typical el cheapo prop.
https://www.rnt2.com/steel-hot-rod-colo ... stals.html

I posted this a few days ago, and i went to the site today looking to purchase another one in a different color. But alas, ironically, they are now "out of stock." People are really taken with this little trick, and after they've seen it, they very frequently ask you to do it for their friend or family member. So despite the conventional wisdom that a trick should not be repeated, i decided to pick up another one. I don't want to disappoint people or raise suspicion by declining, but beyond that, this is a case where it will actually be exponentially stronger when their friend "picks" a different color. So I'm thinking that it's actually a golden opportunity when they ask you to do it for someone else, and you're prepared to do so.

I gave them my email to be "notified when this product is available," which probably means I will be getting daily promotions and solicitations from them until the end of time. Oh well...

[Jim Gerrish]

It's not that difficult to make your own Hot Rods and Jumping Gem Sticks in colors of your own choice. You'll save money and take control of the items you use for either of these tricks. https://www.magicnook.com/WIZJ32/wizj32-05Gemstones.htm

[Tom Dobrowolski]

Best version of the hot rod force I've seen.

https://youtu.be/v5CvyumyPoQ

[MagicbyAlfred]

Best version of the hot rod force I've seen.

https://youtu.be/v5CvyumyPoQ

Eclipsed only by the patter (a/k/a script).

Seriously, though, he does a very good paddle move at the 8 second mark. Very casual, relaxed, and deceptive, with no over-proving.

And I may have to steal that denouement...

[erdnasephile]

I hesitate to post this, but Wow: https://www.ebay.com/itm/144902865418

[Robert77]

I hesitate to post this, but Wow: https://www.ebay.com/itm/144902865418

[edit: completely rewriting my post]

I wonder if that is the one that was at $50 last week? I looked around and found exactly the same item, new, for under $50 with shipping and tax.


But this auction has 20 bids. I'm wondering if whoever high bidder ends up being will actually pay?