rising card questions

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Michael Edwards
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Re: rising card questions

Postby Michael Edwards » June 22nd, 2002, 8:17 am

Jon:

I took your meaning of "effect" in your earlier posting to be somewhat more encompassing than the way both you and John are now employing it. As I understood your point, rising cards -- no matter the method, presentation, venue or even "affect" on the spectator -- are all aspects of the effect animation . Your suggestion, I believe, was that magicians would be well served by expanding their creative powers and explore broadening -- and even creating new -- fundamental effects, rather than merely refining existing ones. Intuitively, I agree with you. But the challenge is daunting. Are there effects that transcend animation, levitation, transposition, transformation et al? Perhaps. But I would suggest that the goal is not really to create new and different magic. It is to create effects and affects that truly bring about wonder, move an audience, or prove great entertainment. Having said that, isn't it also okay just to think up a really cool card trick?

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Angelo Carbone
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Re: rising card questions

Postby Angelo Carbone » June 26th, 2002, 6:20 am

Some may want to look at this: http://www.risingcard.com

Gives some info on on my effect.

Angelo.

George Olson
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Re: rising card questions

Postby George Olson » June 26th, 2002, 7:36 am

One of the best "Rising Card" methods, and one I use almost every night is:

On the Up and Up
An Impromptu Rising Card Routine

by our own lustrious leader Richard and Ken Krenzel

It's killer, came out in 1978.

Guest

Re: rising card questions

Postby Guest » June 26th, 2002, 8:15 am

Here's a thought for a presentation of rising cards in todays world. It's especially suitable for children's shows.

Harry Potter is very popular, and will continue to be because of the projected release of the other movies. You can buy Harry Potter decks of cards in most any toy store.

So, in line with the movie, have a card selected and it rises from the deck in response to the phrase "Wingardium Leviosa." That's from the Harry Potter books, of course.

Choose your favorite method. I may go with Kundilini Rising since no set up would have to be done with the deck.

Guest

Re: rising card questions

Postby Guest » June 27th, 2002, 3:36 pm

For your consideration;
I have been fooled baldy by three methods for the Rising Cards and I use all three of them in different situations;

On the Up and Up by Krenzel and Kuafman A great method and looks realy cool with a slow motion rise.

The next verison is my all time favorite and was first shown to me by its creator Alan Alan. Best of all it can be done with a borrowed deck an dyou end clean Tarbel 7

Finaly Jay Sankey has a realy excellent version in David Acers book where the entire deck is in the box but the selection cleanly rises out of the box. Natural Selection 2

All three are excellent methods for a classic effect, take your pick.

Michael Vincent

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Re: rising card questions

Postby Guest » June 27th, 2002, 3:51 pm

For George, Michael, and perhaps our head Genii, Richard,

Is
On the Up and Up
An Impromptu Rising Card Routine
in a Kaufman book, as a manuscript, or what?

In other words, where do I buy it?

Guest

Re: rising card questions

Postby Guest » June 27th, 2002, 4:21 pm

Hi Dennis

On the Up and Up is a small booklet written and published by Richard Kaufman and Ken Krenzel way back in the early 1980's. The method is based on a Rising Card by Fred Robinson

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Re: rising card questions

Postby George Olson » June 27th, 2002, 5:00 pm

Dennis:

On the Up & Up a 20 page monograph published in 1978. (About the time you and crew were in Bend with us.) Total emersion magic couple of weeks!

Contents:
1. History & Evolution
2. KK's method For The Single Card Rise
3. RK's Method for The Multiple Cars Rise
4. RK's Climax For The Multiple Card Rise
5. KK's Climax For The Two Card Rise
6. KK's Application of Tilt For Loading
7. RK's Variation of the Tilt Load
8. The Routine
9. In Addition

Over the years I've "simplified" for a one card rise in a "Fusilade" type card set.

Perhaps Richard could re-publish; there's a whole new generation out there that this would blow away!

By the way I love Pete's card rise envelope, pencil and rubber band great comedy bit!

Regards,

Guest

Re: rising card questions

Postby Guest » June 27th, 2002, 5:09 pm

Hey George, my friend,
Thanks so much for the info. I already contacted Richard to see if maybe he's got a copy kicking around, but that's probably unlikely. So, I'll be scouring the used magic book sites next.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: rising card questions

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 27th, 2002, 6:37 pm

I'm going to put the decent parts of the Up and Up manuscript into Genii 'ere long. I recall that half of it was good and half bad. I used to perform the good parts!
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Re: rising card questions

Postby David Acer » June 28th, 2002, 4:33 pm

Originally posted by Michael Vincent:
For your consideration;
Finaly Jay Sankey has a realy excellent version in David Acers book where the entire deck is in the box but the selection cleanly rises out of the box. Natural Selection 2
Hi Michael,

The trick youre referring to is "The Card Also Rises," from Natural Selections, Volume II, but Sankey had nothing to do with it. Doesnt he create enough original stuff without getting credit for other peoples work? (shut up Farmer) Also, while I like "The Card Also Rises," I think "Tangent," from my March, 2001 column in Genii has a little more going for it.

End Transmission
Now tweeting daily from @David_Acer

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Ben Harris
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Re: rising card questions

Postby Ben Harris » June 28th, 2002, 5:08 pm

Hi David,

Really enjoyed "Tangent"

Cheers

Ben
Creator of the famous "Floating Match On Card" illusion.
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David Acer
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Re: rising card questions

Postby David Acer » June 29th, 2002, 1:40 pm

Thanks Ben. Not to turn this into a love-in, but, as weve never met, this seems like a good opportunity to mention that I think you do terrific work.
Now tweeting daily from @David_Acer

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: rising card questions

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 29th, 2002, 4:06 pm

Okay you guys, cut it out--next thing you know you'll be out on a date.
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Paul Green
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Re: rising card questions

Postby Paul Green » June 29th, 2002, 4:32 pm

I admire all three of you guys!

Regards,

Paul Green

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Pete Biro
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Re: rising card questions

Postby Pete Biro » June 30th, 2002, 10:27 pm

You all are creative and make great fashion statements... :eek:
Stay tooned.

Dale Shrimpton
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Re: rising card questions

Postby Dale Shrimpton » July 1st, 2002, 5:02 am

Originally posted by Pete Biro:
Ken Bowell... aha, a name from the past... some guys on ebay have been erroneously calling a KNOCK OFF - made in India - version as Ken Brooke... cuz of the KB in the name of the original.

Did Bowell also create Squircle? One of my favorite, forgotten, paper tears.
:cool:
I met ken several times, and always found him to be such great company.He usualy went to Blackpool. The last time i sat next to him, was at a Billy Mcombe lecture , and ken, almost gave me more ideas than Billy. He was working on a new version of Squircle, And he told me about the history of the K.B Tear, plus a couple of other new effects he was working on. Sadly i guess we will never see them, and alas, i was so enthralled with what Ken was saying, i forgot to remember the new tricks.if i remember rightly the improvement on Squircle, was instead of washers, he was thinking of using small magnets as weights.
bummer eh?

Dale

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Re: rising card questions

Postby Guest » August 7th, 2002, 7:15 pm

Originally posted by Edwin Corrie:


As for impromptu rising cards, there is the Witchcraft Rising Card from Expert Card Technique and also Kinky Pinky from one of the Paul Harris books. Then there is Tan Hock Chuan's version from (I think) The Magic of Tan Hock Chuan, which as far as I recall is essentially the same as the Fred Robinson/Eric Mason method. Karl Fulves' book Wireless 2 also contains some interesting ideas.

Does anyone do any of the impromptu Haunted Deck effects? Apart from the related Paul Harris Floating Deck and Float Flip Flight by Howard Schrecko (spelling?), I seem to remember an Impromptu Haunted Deck by our esteemed Genii editor and then versions by Ben Harris and Ed Marlo.
Hi

The spelling is Srecko. Not an easy name to spell or pronounce. Speaking of impromptu rises I love the one described not so long ago in the forum. Don't remember the name but looks good in the mirror when it works..

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Re: rising card questions

Postby Guest » August 7th, 2002, 7:24 pm

Sorry :confused: . I think I modified the post form Edwin Corrie. My apologies :eek: . I blame lack of sleep.

Cheers

Srecko

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Ben Harris
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Re: rising card questions

Postby Ben Harris » August 7th, 2002, 7:39 pm

Hi Srecho

Mate, it has been years, maybe decades.
How are you?

Did I ever tell ya that PH included your wonderful Float Flip Flight in the Art of Astonishment books?

What are you up to now-days??

Cheers

Ben
Creator of the famous "Floating Match On Card" illusion.

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Dale Shrimpton
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Re: rising card questions

Postby Dale Shrimpton » August 8th, 2002, 12:36 am

Originally posted by Pete Biro:
OK, I will think for about 45 seconds here... (pause) for a new effect with cards...

...

... ... hmmmm ...

OK, fellas and gals, come up with a method...

Brind out a deck of cards... since it doesn't matter how it is chosen or thought of (to laymen) a selected card is in the deck...

You place the deck into a glass bowl... gaze at it and it bursts into flame..

the entire deck burns up... except one card...

:genii:
the bowl is gaffed in the base, like one of those fire bowl to flowers things,with a flap.hidden behind the flap, is a dup of the card.so, you drop the cards into the bowl, flip the catch, which ignites a bit of flash papper, ( this covers the flap flipping,) hey presto, the cards have all gone in a flash with the exeption of the chosen card.
( marked with a corner missing naturaly)

Jon Racherbaumer
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Re: rising card questions

Postby Jon Racherbaumer » August 8th, 2002, 10:16 am

Here is some background on the RISING CARD with the rubber ball. This was originally published in a magazine I called SWIPE (circulation: 25) It is the kind of article I post on my Website as a PROVENANCE BULLETIN. Generally, I figure this sort of info is pretty esoteric for most magicians? If this sort of thing interests you, chek out my site or send me a private e-mail. Otherwise, when it's relevant, I'll post it here on this Forum.

ON THE BALL-RISE

The ball-rise is a hybrid method. Its components are dissimilar - so different, in fact, that the combination must have been a happy accident. It very existence (in a workable form) forces us to ask, "Where do these things come from? Who sat down with a deck of cards and a rubber ball and figured out a way to create a rising-card effect? How does this happen?"

Most latter-day cardmen first read about this weird method in THE PALLBEARERS REVIEW (July - 1974) - Volume 9, Number 9. It's called "Squeeze Rise" and is attributed to David Drake. When I read this item, it seemed impractical and strange. Fulves's aside at the end of his explanation is worth remembering:

"Moments later it (the ball) can be produced as Part One in a ball routine, for `Squeeze Rise' must be one of the few tricks where the gimmick can be introduced without the onlookersd suspecting its previous use."

While attending Ireland's 40th Anniversary Get-Together, I saw Derek Dingle completely bamboozle a group of magicians with his handling of the Ball-Rise. Dingle capitalized on possibilities he saw in Drake's method. He eventually published his variant handling in GENII (August-1975) - Volume 39, Number 8. Therein it's called "Super Card Rise" and is credited to David Foote of Toronto, Canada.

The different surnames is puzzling. Perhaps Dingle forgot Drake's name or simply incorrectly remembered it? Drake is also from Toronto, Canada. Another possibility is that "Drake" or "Foote" is a stage-name.

Dingle learned the Ball-Rise from Drake-Foote at an early "Fechter's Finger Flicking Frolic" at Buffalo, New York. This was sometime prior to its publication in THE PALLBEARERS REVIEW. Much later, Drake published a variation in THE LINKING RING (August-1981) called "Tear-A-Rise" where the card rises out of the deck and rips through a paper napkin.

When was the Ball-Rise really devised? Who discovered (invented) it?

William E. Dayton of Connecticut is the unsung hero of this little tale. As he writes in his letter:

"Back in 1947 when I was in Rudy Reamer's Magic Shop in New Haven, Conn. I was fooling around with a deck of cards and a small rubber ball (They didn't have "Super ball" or as known here "Hi Bouncer" balls) and noticed that the ball would push up a card at the back of the deck. After alot of practice it was found that the cards would rise without any finger or hand movement. Was soon performing this effect for magicians and laymen with excellent results."



A couple of years later, Dayton visited Tannens Magic Shop in New York. In the course of his visit, Dayton demonstrated his Ball-Rise to Lou Tannen. When he returned home, he wrote Lou a letter. The letter is dated May 7, 1949. Here is the content of this letter:

Dear Mr. Tannen:

Would like to recall a few of the things that happened at your store the other day, while I was visiting the best magic shop in the world (my opinion). You asked me if I would like to see a rising card effect, then took a deck of cards out of the show case and had several cards rise. When I asked to see the deck, you told me that I couldn't as it's mechanical. I then asked you if you would like to see my rising card. You said yes and I borrowed your deck, and went across the room and proceeded to have cards rise from the deck, acting out the part of using a thread. You were not impressed as you commented that I had to get back so that the thread would not be seen. When I told you that no thread was used and that I would do it 2 feet from your face. I did and you should have seen the expression on your face and then I handed you, your cards and the expression was even better when you found no gimmick. When I showed you that I was using a small rubber ball to push the cards up, you asked permission to send the effect to Dr. Tarbell to be put into Vol. #6. I am now in the process of writing instructions for the effect and they will be in the mail to you soon. The only request I have is, that Dr. Tarbell use my name for the effect as I would like to receive credit for it.
By the way, I have always hid the ball between my shirt and pants behind the belt. and didn't have too much trouble stealing it for the rising cards. But as you know while there, I purchased Jack Miller's Hold Out and his personal instructions in the back room were Fabulous. Am now usding the hold-out to obtain the ball, thereby showing the hands empty right up to the last second. I had to make another ball holder (smaller) than his and it works beautifully.
So, Lou, you can expect the instructions and drawings for "Bill Dayton's Rising Card" very soon.

See you soon

Yours truly,

Bill

Two days later, Lou Tannen replied.

Dear Friend Dayton:

Your letter of May 7 on hand and I wouldf appreciate receiving your manuscript on the rising card effect that you demonstratred here in my store a few weeks ago. I will send this to Dr. Tarbell to be inserted in Tarbell #6 giving you full credit for this trick. You will also receive a number 6 Tarbell book as a gift when the book is ready.

I also want to take this opportunity to thank you for submitting this effect to us as we know the fellows will get a big kick out of it when they read it in the forthcoming Tarbell #6.

Best personal regards and hope to be seeing you soon.

Yours truly,

LOUIS TANNEN

On June 22, 1949, Lou Tannen wrote another letter to Bill Dayton:


Dear Mr. Dayton:

This is to advise you that your "Rising Card" manuscript was forwarded to Dr. Tarbell the day we received it from you.

Will be seeing you when you come in here July 5 or 6 and will show you a few of our new effects.

Thank you very much for your manuscript. Dr. Tarbell was delighted with this.

Very truly yours,

LOUIS TANNEN

Bill Dayton's card-rise did not appear in TARBELL #6, which was finally published in 1954. Dayton's effect would have be part of Lesson 73 - UNIQUE CARD EFFECTS; however, for reasons unknown, the Ball-Rise "fell through the cracks." Anyone scrutinizing TARBELL #7 notices items illustrated by Tarbell, not Ed Mishell. It's reasonable to assume that these items were on file (in completed form) to be published in subsequent volumes of the Tarbell Course. Items like "Audley Walsh's Three Card Monte" and "Tarbell's Chinese Rope Chain" have Tarbell's unmistakeable "signature" on them. At this point we can only speculate about what happened to Bill Dayton's trick and how it may have endured as a nameless, phantom method that was selectively passed from magician to magician. There is no direct ancestral tie to David Drake, who more than twenty years later re-discovered the same off-the-wall method. The enclosed documents show that Bill Dayton's idea precedes Drake's efforts. He should get some credit, although at this unspectacular stage of the Game, such acknowledge has the status of a footnote.

When Dingle was actively showing magicians the Ball-Rise, it enjoyed a "moment in the fickle sun." This was many years ago. Who performs it now? How many remember? The layers of dust thicken.

Memories fade.

The caravan moves on.

Onward...

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Matthew Field
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Re: rising card questions

Postby Matthew Field » August 8th, 2002, 1:48 pm

Jon,
This is great stuff. Had I been aware of "Swipe" your circulation would have zoomed to 26.
I hope you'll reprint the "Swipe" series, as I've nagged you before, either on your excellent website ( Click here for JonRacherbaumer.com ) or as hard copy, or even via Lybrary.com.
I find this sort of research fascinating, and if someone finally gets the credit he is due, even on a belated basis, you are doing a real service. Plus it's just plain interesting to me.

Matt Field

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Ben Harris
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Re: rising card questions

Postby Ben Harris » August 8th, 2002, 5:23 pm

I agree, Matt -

The sort of detail in Jon's post is real exciting stuff. The birth of ideas and their subsequent journey through time is so fascinating.

Thanks Jon.

Ben
Creator of the famous "Floating Match On Card" illusion.

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David Ben
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Re: rising card questions

Postby David Ben » August 8th, 2002, 6:23 pm

Re: Jon's article on the rubber ball rise and Mr. Dayton's opinion.

David Drake and David Foote were one and the same person. David Drake was his stage name. David was one of my closest friends. He passed away from cancer a couple of years ago. I am in the process of writing an introduction to a book that he wrote just before he died.

Although Mr. Dayton may claim the idea, David Drake certainly came up with it independently and was the first person to publish the method. The rules of the publishing game are not always fair. It should be known as the Drake/Foote Ball Rise.

David Drake and Derek Dingle were also very good friends having met and hung together as soon as Derek landed in Toronto in the 1960s.

Mr. Dayton wrote David quite an offensive letter reprimanding David for stealing his idea. David Drake did not steal anyone's idea. He was a kind and creative individual through and through.

John Pezzullo
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Re: rising card questions

Postby John Pezzullo » August 9th, 2002, 3:09 am

I am in the process of writing an introduction to a book that he wrote just before he died.
David,

Who is going to publish David Drake's book?

Regards,

John

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Re: rising card questions

Postby Guest » August 10th, 2002, 8:07 pm

Originally posted by Ben Harris:
Hi Srecho

Mate, it has been years, maybe decades.
How are you?

Did I ever tell ya that PH included your wonderful Float Flip Flight in the Art of Astonishment books?

What are you up to now-days??

Cheers

Ben
Hi Ben

It has been a long time. It sure seems like and feels like decades. But since I talked to you last lets see. Got married again (Angela), first degree(business computing), work with CSIRO/DPI as database programmer, lecturer at Uni(ninth year soon), second degree(computer sciences), working on third degree (half way through, thinking of drooping it) rediscovered card books again (ahhh salvation). Thats about it the last 12 years. I'm usually luring in the background picking up pearls of wisdom :D from some of the greatest names in magic. It is truly an eye opener :eek: .

Got some more lurking to do. I will drop you a line as soon as works slows down :( .

Cheers

Srecko

Edwin Corrie
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Re: rising card questions

Postby Edwin Corrie » August 12th, 2002, 2:01 pm

Hi Srecko,

We haven't met, but I always liked your Float Flip Flight. Sorry about spelling your name wrong - I normally try not to make mistakes with names, but I don't have my copy of Killer Klose Up with me here and couldn't check.

As well as appearing in Paul Harris' Art of Astonishment, it was also described in Randy Wakeman Presents. A of A credits Srechko Howard, and RWP credits Howard Shrecko.

Guest

Re: rising card questions

Postby Guest » August 13th, 2002, 2:04 am

Originally posted by Edwin Corrie:
Hi Srecko,

We haven't met, but I always liked your Float Flip Flight. Sorry about spelling your name wrong - I normally try not to make mistakes with names, but I don't have my copy of Killer Klose Up with me here and couldn't check.

As well as appearing in Paul Harris' Art of Astonishment, it was also described in Randy Wakeman Presents. A of A credits Srechko Howard, and RWP credits Howard Shrecko.
Hi

Thank you for the kind words regarding the card float/flight. I showed it to Ben as a what do you think of this late one convention. He loved it and asked to be included in Killer Klose Up with changes. Later I found it appeared in one of Paul Harris books from Ben, which I still can't believe :) .

You did get my name correct according to the spelling Ben used. I used to tell people the spelling with the 'h' to try and get them to pronounce my name corectly. That did't work so I decided to live with it. I don't think its my problem :)

I didn't know it appeared in the Randy Wakeman Presents. Have been trying to get a copy of the Wakeman stuff since he appeared in Australia. I'm slowly catching up on the books I missed out on in the last 10 years (this could get expensive as I have a very long list :D ). BTW anybody know if Marlo Magazine is ever going to be rereleased. I have been hunting this for a long time as well.

Kind Regards

Srecko

Jamy Ian Swiss
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Re: rising card questions

Postby Jamy Ian Swiss » August 25th, 2002, 9:27 pm

Another excellent version is the Martin Lewis rising cards, done under a glass dome with a miniature deck, in Martin's Miracles. Scotty York has a superb unpublished handling of this, done with regular cards, which at least magician has made something of a trademark routine (and those who've seen it often do not know the origins).

The opener of David Ben's "Conjuror's Suite" was essentially Robert-Houdin's Rising Cards, one of the most magical things I have ever seen.

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Pete Biro
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Re: rising card questions

Postby Pete Biro » August 25th, 2002, 11:15 pm

I remember Dick Koornwinder having a card selected (by me) put the card into the deck and putting the deck into a plastic bag, twist tying it and leaning it against the leg of a chair in Fred Kaps' living room.

My card rose up out of the deck, and Dick handed me the package and all was examinable.

Nailed my feeble brain!
:p
Stay tooned.

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Re: rising card questions

Postby Jonathan Townsend » October 11th, 2011, 3:42 pm

Pete Biro wrote:OK, I will think for about 45 seconds here... (pause) for a new effect with cards...

...

... ... hmmmm ...

OK, fellas and gals, come up with a method...

Brind out a deck of cards... since it doesn't matter how it is chosen or thought of (to laymen) a selected card is in the deck...

You place the deck into a glass bowl... gaze at it and it bursts into flame..

the entire deck burns up... except one card...

:genii:


Perhaps David Regal might be convinced to produce a special version of his disposable deck to use for that kind of trick?


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