rising card questions

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Steve Bryant
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Re: rising card questions

Postby Steve Bryant » March 25th, 2002, 4:18 am

Although elastic is used, McBride's Kundalini is not the same as the Angel Card Rise. McBride uses a separate loop. Angel has a piece between two cards permanently attached, similar (but also different because of postitioning) to Elmsley's.

And for the others, there is of course a huge section on rising cards in Greater Magic.

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Re: rising card questions

Postby Matthew Field » March 25th, 2002, 6:32 am

Originally posted by Steve Bryant:
Angel has a piece between two cards permanently attached,


Steve -- this sounds just like the Dave Solomon rising card gimmick (made for him, I believe, by Don England).

Do you know the difference, if any?

Matt Field

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Re: rising card questions

Postby Paul Green » March 25th, 2002, 6:58 am

With all the discussion about the various rising card routines and methods, I thought I would offer something to anyone interested.

I have an original Angelo Carbone "Notion of Motion". If you are interested, please contact me directly.

Regards,

Paul Green
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Re: rising card questions

Postby Steve Bryant » March 25th, 2002, 7:40 pm

Richard,

David Britland's Angel Card Rise Plus is a 28-page booklet containing several clever methods for causing cards to rise, the most prominent being the Angel method with a piece of elastic configured differently from the way Elmsley does it. One of the effects is a Haunted Deck effect where the spectator applies the pressure and is directed by the magician. This might explain the talk of similarity to McBride's Kundalini effect, not so much the mechanics as the psychology. I like Britland's take much better than McBride's in this case. (Details I'm not mentioning are important.)

Matt,
David Solomon's method also uses two cards with a different elastic substance between and configured a bit differently again. And Solomon's routine involves 2 cards rising. Both routines involve a faro shuffle to place the selected card, though this isn't critical.

My favorite along these lines is Vernon's where a strong piece of elastic SHOOTS the aces from the deck as a gag, details to be found in "The David and Goliath Deal" in Vernon Chronicles Number 3.

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Re: rising card questions

Postby Pete Biro » March 25th, 2002, 8:26 pm

Ben, how can I look up your effect when (in Los Angeles) there is NO SUCH THING AS AN APRIL GENII.... ARGH.... :eek:
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Ben Harris
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Re: rising card questions

Postby Ben Harris » March 26th, 2002, 2:11 pm

Hi Pete,

Look forward to your comments. By the way, the April issue has arrived in Australia!

Also, I've just remembered that Steve Dusheck used to have a rising method that involved a piece of elastic affixed diagonally to the back of a playing card. Can't think of what he called it. I think he released it in the mid eighties.

What ever happened to Steve?

Cheers

Ben
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Re: rising card questions

Postby Bill Mullins » March 26th, 2002, 3:43 pm

Henry Evans has a neat rising card with a loop of elastic threaded through the design of a court card.

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Re: rising card questions

Postby Angelo Carbone » June 11th, 2002, 5:52 pm

Originally posted by Peter Duffie:
Hi Matt

The last I heard about the Carbone Rising Cards (any card named) is that Tenyo had bought it and would be releasing it as a high priced "magician only" product. I think the date given for its release was November 2001, but it never appeared.

Best Wishes

Peter
Sadly although Tenyo had my deck for over a year with the intention of marketing it (they showed me a version of the gimmick they were intending to use with it), they chose not to. The reason being, Ariston's Arising Card had hit the market and they felt there was no need for another version to be on sale too especially when it would be competing against the other model.

So it is back to me at my table making the decks by hand..... :)

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Re: rising card questions

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 11th, 2002, 9:11 pm

Angelo, you should tell the guys at Tenyo that the Ariston Rising Cards didn't really sell too well for various reasons (one of which is that many dealers wouldn't carry it because it carried a counterfeit--that is, reproduced illegally and without permission--Bicycle back design, and that the market for YOUR version is still there--and tell them I said so!
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Re: rising card questions

Postby Pete Biro » June 11th, 2002, 9:36 pm

Ken Brooke used to sell Gus Southall's Auto Rise. A small metal clip attached to a double card with an elastic band.

A Dutch magician sold a KILLER CARD RISE with a coil shaped spring that lifted a card... oh what was his name?

I have a couple of them around here someplace.

Fred Robinson, knowing I loved rising card effects, made up a one off for me. A small wooden box that you dropped the deck into... a piece of thread with a little weighted metal hook, that dropped in behind the deck and would hook onto and lift the rear card.

Then there is the clockwork box that cards rose out of, lifting the lid as they came up... another Ken Brooke item.

Albenice hanging deck on ribbon is very commercial for parlour work.

Ron Wilson/Pat Hennessy made a beautiful Electronic, adjustable delay rising card deck (no radio controller needed)...

If I did theater stage I would love to do the Thurston routine.

Also on occassion do card fountain with Charlie Miller Magicana threading and Thornton Windlass.

I know McComb is credited with "Splashing in the Card Fountain" using a motor (a few dealers now sell various versions) ... interestingly, I came up with the same thing independently some years ago. Oh well. :eek: :D :eek:
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Re: rising card questions

Postby Guest » June 12th, 2002, 3:09 am

Over 50 years ago Harry Stanley of Unique Studio marketed a McComb 'inspiration' which was called "William's Cantankerous Card Rise" when the 'chosen' card did everything EXCEPT rise, including coming out of the bottom of the box! :eek:
Needless to say it did eventually rise. :rolleyes:

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Re: rising card questions

Postby Angelo Carbone » June 12th, 2002, 7:51 am

Will do Richard, even though I had already tried to persuade them in the past.

Maybe it would be better if they heard it from someone else... ;) ;) (knudge) (knudge)

:D

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Re: rising card questions

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 12th, 2002, 9:35 am

Pete, the coiled spring was put out by Ted Biet. Harry Lorayne used to fiddle with it.
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Re: rising card questions

Postby Guest » June 12th, 2002, 11:48 am

Doug Henning recreated the Thurston rising cards for one of his television specials. It was a "bear" to work with, because the cards wanted to just leap out of the deck instead of gracefully and slowly rising. With a lot of work they got it to look pretty good.

A magician named Frank Baxter, now living in Pollock Pines, California, claims to be the originator of the method now attributed to Jeff McBride. (Kundilini Rising.) He says he did it around the Magic Castle years before anyone marketed it. But, he never published it, wanting to keep it for himself. I know Frank and he's a pretty straight shooter. I suspect that it's a case of legitimate re-invention.

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Re: rising card questions

Postby Pete Biro » June 12th, 2002, 5:14 pm

Thanks Richard, Ted Biet it is... a very nice gaffus.
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Re: rising card questions

Postby Guest » June 13th, 2002, 10:39 pm

Has anyone mentioned two Collectors' Workshop items that allows you to raise "any" card called for, a la Hooker's: Marrakesh Mystery and Nova. :confused:

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Re: rising card questions

Postby Edwin Corrie » June 13th, 2002, 11:51 pm

Rising card effects are wonderful - I still remember my amazement as a young boy having the Devano deck demonstrated to me at Davenports when they were still opposite the British Museum. The demonstrator propped the deck up on a shelf behind the counter and went off to serve someone else while I watched my card rise all by itself.

Parisian dealer Guy Lore ("Paris Magic") used to sell a rising card from fan with a one-card gimmick, which looked good but was a bit tricky to do.

I have a marketed effect from a few years ago using the same principle as the Elmsley/Angel/Kundalini card rise in which the deck rises from the case and the chosen card then rises from the deck while it is sticking out of the case. Like most of my magic books and stuff, this is back home in England at the moment, so I can't check whose it is.

Another good gimmicked deck version is Stephen Tucker's Lazarus Deck.

As for impromptu rising cards, there is the Witchcraft Rising Card from Expert Card Technique and also Kinky Pinky from one of the Paul Harris books. Then there is Tan Hock Chuan's version from (I think) The Magic of Tan Hock Chuan, which as far as I recall is essentially the same as the Fred Robinson/Eric Mason method. Karl Fulves' book Wireless 2 also contains some interesting ideas.

Does anyone do any of the impromptu Haunted Deck effects? Apart from the related Paul Harris Floating Deck and Float Flip Flight by Howard Schrecko (spelling?), I seem to remember an Impromptu Haunted Deck by our esteemed Genii editor and then versions by Ben Harris and Ed Marlo.

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Re: rising card questions

Postby Anthony Brahams » June 19th, 2002, 12:53 am

Just got round to reading the Rising Cards thread (pun I did not plan, for Pete B?).

An Alex Elmsley RC was sold by Ken Brooke, or was it Unique?

Don't think I saw mentiond the Val Evans which Jim Ryan featured-I'd like to get one of those!

Only Paul Green wrote of the Gary Plants effect and I can confirm its excellence.

The Mason and Robinson versions are the cleanest I have seen-no additional items; but very difficult, I find. Is the Krenzel Up and Up less awkward? Is it still in print or included in another publication?

Irv Weiner had quite a neat version with just one gimmicked card.
Anthony

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Re: rising card questions

Postby Anthony Brahams » June 21st, 2002, 12:58 am

Arise Comrades (Eric Mason's Rising Card) was published in the book, Stuff. Presumably Fred Robinson's will be in a book of his magic that could be published soon. Both are in different issues of Pabular. I'll give references if required.
Anthony

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Re: rising card questions

Postby Matthew Field » June 21st, 2002, 6:28 am

The new A-1 "Convention at the Capital" compilation video has a nice version by David Regal. I just wrote it up for my September :genii: column.

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Re: rising card questions

Postby Jon Racherbaumer » June 21st, 2002, 9:22 am

Maybe I fell on my head from a significant height not long ago, but I find myself thinking about EFFECTS in a wholly different light. In other words, I'm now amazed that magicians are still seeking ULTIMATE methods for old, classic effects such as the Rising Card.

The basic effect is obviously ANTIMATION by unseen means. Magicians keep focusing on the nature of the "unseen means." That is, make the "means" more invisible and the get-away of the affus-gaffus sanitized to the max.

Recently there has been an attempt to recapture the Hooker Rising Card approaches: name a card and it rises from an ordinary, borrowed deck. Make the card rise and hand back the deck.

So...?

This can be done with a memorized stack, skill, and mastery of "On the Up and Up"--the Fred Robinson bit.

Otherwise, we are simply fascinated with the gew-gaws and affus-gaffuses...which apparently is the real deal and "magical thinking" at work here.

Why can't we focus on creating NEW EFFECTS?

Or is it time to "up" my medication?

Onward...

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Re: rising card questions

Postby CHRIS » June 21st, 2002, 11:02 am

Jon,

first, because it is much easier to work out an alternative method than to work out a new effect.

But I also think most want the no-work super miracle. Self-working, no gimmick, no memorization, no skill, but super effect. Many gimmicks and methods can be replaced with lots of skill. Only few are willing to learn these and then actually apply them in real life to fool the innocent.

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Re: rising card questions

Postby Pete Biro » June 21st, 2002, 11:27 am

OK, I will think for about 45 seconds here... (pause) for a new effect with cards...

...

... ... hmmmm ...

OK, fellas and gals, come up with a method...

Brind out a deck of cards... since it doesn't matter how it is chosen or thought of (to laymen) a selected card is in the deck...

You place the deck into a glass bowl... gaze at it and it bursts into flame..

the entire deck burns up... except one card...

:genii:
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Re: rising card questions

Postby Pete Biro » June 21st, 2002, 11:28 am

Brind out? Duh... it shudda be "Bring out"

:o
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Re: rising card questions

Postby Jim Riser » June 21st, 2002, 11:43 am

Re: Neyhart Houlette

Having worked on three of these now (soldering parts, etc.), I'm convinced that they could work if built to a slightly different design. The big problem is slipping of the thread "belt" and the tiny "V" pulleys.

I have toyed around with the idea of making several sets that would be reliable and have even designed a cutter for the special cards. It is doable.

Does anyone know claims to own the rights to the Neyhart? (there is always someone claiming rights to everything whether true or not). I do not want to produce it if another person plans on reviving the Neyhart. Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks.
Jim

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Re: rising card questions

Postby CHRIS » June 21st, 2002, 12:16 pm

Pete,

I would not call this a new effect. You just found, located, isolated the chosen card in some magical way. It doesn't matter to the spectator if the cards vanish, burn up, or are mutilated in some other way. The basic effect in the mind of the spectator is the same.

What is really needed are new plots, new effects, new ideas. The old 'select a card' and I find it or let it appear somewhere else is all the same basic effect.

Hey, my card appeared under a beer glass instead of the wine glass you are using. Pretty innovative, huh!

Chris Wasshuber
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Re: rising card questions

Postby Anthony Brahams » June 21st, 2002, 1:16 pm

I think I agree with Jon Racherbumer except that "antimation" is in neither Webster nor Oxford dictionaries.

Neverhtheless I mention now another effect, "The Limit in Rising Cards" which originally was in the January 1913 Magic Wand by J.Wood but I read it in Hugard's M M, Milbourne C's column, credited. However is it possible and practical? Method is that card chosen from a cheap quality deck, returned to an expensive deck and latter including CC dropped into a jug (U.S. = pitcher) of water and the chosen card rises.
Anyone tried or seen it?

I wrote earlier of an Irv Weiner Rising Card. He sold it and also contributed "A simple and practical floating card" to HMM using wax on your thumb.
Anthony

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Re: rising card questions

Postby Guest » June 21st, 2002, 1:48 pm

I would have to agree with Mr. Racherbaumer. As long as a method is practical--meaning within the capabilities of the magician to properly execute and invisible to the audience--wouldn't our creative energies better be served by directing them towards new effects? As to the observation that it is easier to come up with a new method than a new effect, I would respectfully point out that just because one thing is easier than another, doesn't necessarily mean it's better or more correct. Yes, maybe you'll have to work harder to master the old tried and true method than to perform the latest self-working variation, but more often than not that classic method will help to develop skills which will permeate other aspects of your work. As Vernon said, "If skill and cleverness could be aquired for the asking, there would be little profit anyone."

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Re: rising card questions

Postby Guest » June 21st, 2002, 1:52 pm

The last line in my previous post should read, "...to profit anyone."
Sorry.

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Re: rising card questions

Postby Bill Mullins » June 21st, 2002, 2:24 pm

Originally posted by Chris Wasshuber:


I would not call this a new effect.
But wouldn't a layman???

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Re: rising card questions

Postby Pete Biro » June 21st, 2002, 3:36 pm

OK.... spread deck out face up. Have spectator name and card and let them square deck and turn over... you then immediately spread cards the their card has reversed itself and is face up.

Easy way is small group of cards using Vernon psychological force (double faced card).

Thoughts? :eek:
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Re: rising card questions

Postby Pete Biro » June 21st, 2002, 3:37 pm

Chris... whaddya want working in a vacuum and only thinking for 45 seconds? :confused:
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Re: rising card questions

Postby Paul Green » June 21st, 2002, 4:31 pm

Hi Pete,

I have been doing this routine for years! Your method will work just fine, but I have added many small handling details that take this over the moon!

Regards,

Paul

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Re: rising card questions

Postby Michael Edwards » June 21st, 2002, 5:36 pm

Originally posted by Jim Riser:
Re: Neyhart Houlette

Having worked on three of these now (soldering parts, etc.), I'm convinced that they could work if built to a slightly different design. The big problem is slipping of the thread "belt" and the tiny "V" pulleys.

I have toyed around with the idea of making several sets that would be reliable and have even designed a cutter for the special cards. It is doable.

Does anyone know claims to own the rights to the Neyhart? (there is always someone claiming rights to everything whether true or not). I do not want to produce it if another person plans on reviving the Neyhart. Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks.
Jim
Jim:

I -- and others -- have been trying to track down this information for quite some time, but to no avail. As you suggest, the mechanics are (at the very least) "unique"...and complicated by the fact that the rubber material needs to be just right; the tension precise; and the knot on the thread tied in a very unusual manner to prevent it getting hung up.. Repairing a one is exceptionally difficult; getting one to function properly all the time under performance conditions is virtually impossible. Then there are the cards themselves, which must be treated with great care...though I believe that Carl Williams has made up a limited number of Neyhart decks.

Even if one could get a Neyhart houlette to work perfectly (through luck or redesign), practical limitations render it less than the ideal rising card apparatus, particularly inasmuch as neither the houlette nor the cards can be handed out for inspection...rather they both have to be switched.

All that notwithstanding, it is a wonderful though idiosyncratic piece of equipment. Good luck in your efforts.

Michael

PS...Each Neyhart houlette is numbered inside. I've been trying to get an estimate on the number actually made. I haven't come across one numbered above 100 yet. Have you?

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Re: rising card questions

Postby Mitch Dutton » June 21st, 2002, 5:49 pm

I'm partial to the Karrel Fox no gimmick card rise, done impromptu with any deck... anyone else like it? --Mitch

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Re: rising card questions

Postby Pete Biro » June 21st, 2002, 6:01 pm

Edwards and Riser:

OK, you make up the rising card houlette (gaffed) and make a dupe no gaff.

Cards taken out of dupe, spectator shuffles and has card selected by another spectator if you wish. Card returned to deck and houlette.

You walk back to table and with a pull, a topit, whatever you SWITCH for the gaffed houlette.

Card Rises.. applause. Go on to cigars and brandy as you put the deck/houlette away.

:p
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Re: rising card questions

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 21st, 2002, 6:01 pm

I don't think that the rights to the Neyhart Houlette are currently owned by anyone.
Mitch, what is the Fox handling?
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Re: rising card questions

Postby Michael Edwards » June 21st, 2002, 6:20 pm

Pete:

That's pretty close to the way Neyhart (who I understand was in the typewriter repair business) envisioned it...though not with a topit. The full Neyhart setup included the mechanical houlette, an ungimmicked twin houlette, a deck of the finely tooled cards, an unprepared sister deck and a case.

Michael

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Re: rising card questions

Postby John Pezzullo » June 22nd, 2002, 5:47 am

Why can't we focus on creating NEW EFFECTS?
I don't think that it's relevant whether one's focus is on old effects or new effects. The primary area of one's focus should be the creation and development of effects and routines that 'work' in the real world. If this involves taking an old effect and giving it our own 'twists and turns' then so be it. If this involves the creation of a new premise for an effect and a revolutionary method then so be it.

If my memory serves me correctly, Jon wrote about something along these lines in one of his columns in "MAGIC" a few years ago. He wrote about the strong impact that a performance of Percy Abbott's 'Squash' had on a waitress in a cafe and compared it with the minimal impact that a 'new' card trick had on her. The 'old' or 'new' distinction means nothing in the real world where the lay audience rules supreme.

The question that we need to be asking is:

"Is this good magic or bad magic?"

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Re: rising card questions

Postby Jon Racherbaumer » June 22nd, 2002, 7:20 am

John P. is correct and his comments prove that one can never put "too fine a point" on DEFINITIONS. Examples: The distinction between EFFECT and AFFECT. The distinction between describing what actually happens during the operation of an effect and its subjective EFFECT on spectators.

"Squash" is indeed an old effect. The presentation makes it an experience involving a "wishing well" and the possible fulfillment of a wish. The disappearance of the glass and liquid is a pretext. (credit for idea: Kelly Green)

The EFFECT on the audience is much DIFFERENT.

So it goes, as we "split" (hairs) and "lump" into categories.

Fun, ain't it?

Onward...


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