Turner's review of Bairefoot's DVD

[NCMarsh]

Richard,

Theft is theft whether or not it is so called by our particular laws. Had anyone suggested that we seek a remedy for these thefts in the law then, and only then the question of what the law thinks would be relevant. As we haven't, the legal definitions are irrelevant.

The basic question is this: has Magic Makers taken someone else's property?

This is easily answered if we have a clear view of what property is. I am partial to John Locke's:

...every man has a property in his own person: this nobody has an right to but himself. The labour of his body, and the work of his hands, we may say, are properly his. Whatsoever then he removes out of the state that nature hath provided, and left it in, he hath mixed his labour with, and joined to it something that is his own, and thereby makes it his property. (Two Treatises of Government II.V.25)

If my hands are my own then a fortiori my mind is my own. If the products of the labor of my hands mine, then the products of the labor of my mind are -- a fortiori -- mine. Paul Harris, John Kennedy, Finn Jon have all clearly invested their labor into ideas that have been appropriated -- without any compensation -- by M*gic M*kers.

It was their labor. It was their property. It was taken from them. That, friends, is theft.

Best,

N.

[Guest]

With Regards To All

Knowing both Michael Bairefoot and Michael Ayres, the history of animosity that has nearly come to blows by Mr. Bairefoot trying to bring out the truth between them. Mr. Ayres history (personally knowing the reasons behind his leaving this area) I would choose to believe Michael Bairefoot. I also have personal knowledge of the negotiations between Magic Makers and Michael in the production of this video, and, should any of you be offered the opportunity to have your shot make sure you get final approval on the finished product and that the finished product is what you approved, or learn the hard way. Everyone was fully credited in the original demo sent to Magic Makers. And one only need to see Bairefoot at a convention with dozens of magicians asking to see his forcing technique over and over. The folks at both T.A.O.M 2004 the International Battle of Magicians 2005, the I.B.M. in Reno that were asking for Bairefoot to teach them his ring and rope routine, which he did freely sharing with other magicians. As to Mr. Ayers I suggest he read the review of Gregory Wilsons DVDs in the August Magic Magazine (Sorry Richard) perhaps you would like to trash another working magician. Four years on the message board with 7 posts and 5 concerning this thread. Seems to me to be more personal than anything.

[Richard Kaufman]

Sorry, Nathan, but the laws are made by the government and courts, not by average joes like you.

Theft is only theft when it is defined as such by the law. The law doesn't care what you think it SHOULD BE. It is what it is. Get used to it.

Taking the law into your own hands is AGAINST the law.

As far as violating a patent goes, patents won't protect 99.9% of the magic tricks created, so looking for someone who violated a patent really won't help the great majority of guys whose tricks have been copied and marketed by Magic Makers.

[NCMarsh]

Richard,

Theft is only theft when it is defined as such by the law. The law doesn't care what you think it SHOULD BE. It is what it is. Get used to it.

I have never argued that these thefts should be against the law -- indeed, I think that the current position of the law towards these matters is correct.

That a theft ought not to be one that is punished by the law does not make it any less a theft.

Laws are in place to establish the bare minimum of conduct that a society will accept before it uses force against one of its members. Law, properly written, speaks only to those violations that can be clearly and universally established and only to those that are severe enough to warrant forcible coercion. Neither of these standards is met by the thefts in question.

Laws are NOT definitive sources for what is right or wrong, nor do they completely define every term that they use. They are only tools to be used by the polity to protect itself from its very worst.

N.

[Richard Kaufman]

Oh--then I guess it's okay for magic dealers and manufacturers to copy the creations of others and sell them because the stance of the law is correct?
You've been spending too much time in class.
Topic Closed.