Abbott's

[Bill Mullins]

Currently on the way home from the Abbott's Get-Together. This was my first time to this convention.

Minuses: a very weak dealer room, a couple of blocks of time with too little in the way of scheduled events, and lodging far from the action.

Pluses (which overcame all of the minuses): a talent line up that was, simply, incredible. All of these, plus Franz Harary, David Charvet, and Chad Long (Guy Hollingworth wasn't able to come because of Covid quarantines coming and going).

[Richard Kaufman]

Anyone wearing masks when indoors?

[Bill Mullins]

Yes. The High School had signs posted "Masks STRONGLY Suggested", and a number of folks were wearing them inside. The only place I saw that required mask wearing was the Methodist Church which offered a spaghetti supper (excellent!) on Thursday night.

[Ted M]

I estimated about 25% mask usage on Day 1. It then dropped to about 10%, 5% and 5% on subsequent days.

Given the median age at Abbotts, that kind of blew my mind.

[Bill Mullins]

I don't think it ever got as low as 10%, but I wasn't counting.

I've been vaccinated. Everything I've read says, yes, it is theoretically possible for a vaxxed person to get Covid and spread it, the chances of it actually occurring are vanishingly small. So while I wore my mask some, I didn't wear it all of the time, and I never felt like I was risking my own health during the times I wasn't wearing it, nor did I think I was risking the health of anyone else (at least, any more than I risked their health by going to, say MagiFest in January of 2018, 2019, 2020, without a mask, and possibly spreading the flu).

[Richard Kaufman]

There's a growing number of breakthrough infections occurring around the world. Better to mask up and be safe.

[Chris Aguilar]

There's a growing number of breakthrough infections occurring around the world. Better to mask up and be safe.

Or not go to conventions at all for now.

[Chris Aguilar]

At what point (and likely for several months, with covid full on raging again) are we going to admit that it's currently not responsible/safe to produce/attend large scale (super-spreader) events (magic conventions or otherwise)?

I'm sure the normal excuses will come into play ("But, Plans! Plane tickets! Hotel Reservations! We're taking the best precautions! We miss our get-togethers, blah blah). Since when does all that trump basic health and safety concerns?

[Ted M]

A major difference since last year is that excellent vaccines now exist, and everyone 12+ has had the opportunity to be vaccinated. So it should be very possible for an event to happen responsibly, if the event is willing to turn the screws and make irresponsible people unhappy.

MagiFest is requiring proof of vaccination to attend. That should be standard.

CDC is currently recommending masking for all people at all indoor events in areas with high transmission. Events should implement those recommendations as requirements, and consider their area not to be local, but regional/national depending on their drawing power.

My friend and I, both fully vaccinated, were masked full-time while indoors at Abbott's. We ate and drank strictly outdoors. I went for a Covid test yesterday, which came back negative.

The vaccine prevents severe Covid fantastically well, but is not armored proof against mild infection, particularly from the more infectious Delta variant, and we did not wish to become transmission vectors for vulnerable people in our orbit back home.

I never spotted Mac King, Mike Caveney, or Ice McDonald indoors without a mask except when performing on stage, so props to them for leading by example.

[Chris Aguilar]

I sincerely question the common sense of anyone (vaccinated like my family or not ) who would choose to risk attending large scale gatherings of any type at this particular moment in time. In many jurisdictions, cases, deaths are matching/surpassing our previous (worse) lock down conditions. We can't pretend (with many break through cases and knock on transmissions to the unvaccinateed) that things are somehow "normal" in terms of these large scale events.

The thought that I might get/share even mild case (with potential long term implications) or bring a case home to someone else is repugnant to me. I can't imagine any amount an good behavior on my part (getting vaccinated, distancing, masking, etc.) would ever be acceptable to me if I knew I was taking risks (i.e. attending large events) that could lead to me spreading the virus to someone else.

Attending a convention (magic or otherwise) will never be worth it to me under these conditions.

[Joe Lyons]

The thought that I might get/share even mild case (with potential long term implications) or bring a case home to someone else is repugnant to me.

Me too.

I gave up tickets to the Magic Collectors Expo in Las Vegas. Along with several excellent presenters and performers this includes a private tour of David Copperfield's museum and collection. For me this is a once in a lifetime opportunity.
After I was vaccinated and cases started going down I thought we were out of the woods. With the recent explosion of cases and the new information that vaccinated people can carry a serious virus load and spread the disease I had to bow out of the best convention I'll never go to. I have a few at risk people in my circle - some who cant get the vaccine yet. If they get the virus it won't be through my negligence.

[Bill Mullins]

I sincerely question the common sense of anyone (vaccinated like my family or not ) who would choose to risk attending large scale gatherings of any type at this particular moment in time.

People are notoriously bad at judging risk. You and I have come to different conclusions. I've been vaccinated, and I judged that the risk to me of attending Abbott's was acceptable to me. As a man in my late fifties, the risk of death without being vaccinated from catching Covid was about 1 in 200, perhaps better than that since I regularly take Vitamin D supplements. Vaccination reduces the chance of catching Covid by something like a factor of 20, and the chances of bad outcomes if you catch it (hospitalization and death) by much more than that (100s? 1000s?) -- Covid, for vaccinated people, is a winter cold that you probably won't catch. The current wave of the pandemic is a wave of unvaccinated people catching the delta variant of the disease -- "breakthrough" infections are a small fraction of cases, and a near-negligible fraction of hospitalizations and deaths, most of whom are demographically dissimilar to me (age 70+ and with pre-existing health issues).
The other side of the risk coin is "what risk do I represent to others?" I don't want to give Covid to my family or anyone else. All of my immediate family is vaccinated; the co-workers I'm regularly around are all masked at all times, and either vaccinated, or have made their own personal decision to accept the risk of not being vaccinated. My own vaccine means that I'm much less likely than I would have been to catch Covid, and that if I do, the viral load I shed would be much reduced compared to if I hadn't been jabbed. The risk of me catching Covid and passing it on is small enough that I don't feel I have an obligation to constrain my life to mitigate it further. I didn't feel that way pre-vax -- I locked myself down for over a year.

In many jurisdictions . . . deaths are matching/surpassing our previous (worse) lock down conditions.

No. In the US as a whole, the (from Washington Post) 7-day running average deaths is 534/day; it peaked in Jan at 3300/day. I can't find a state in which current deaths are near January peaks (and I looked at all 50).

The thought that I might get/share even mild case (with potential long term implications) or bring a case home to someone else is repugnant to me. I can't imagine any amount an good behavior on my part (getting vaccinated, distancing, masking, etc.) would ever be acceptable to me if I knew I was taking risks (i.e. attending large events) that could lead to me spreading the virus to someone else.

How did you deal with the risk of giving someone the flu, pre-March 2020? How did you deal with the risk of causing a fatal (to someone else) automobile accident when driving to magic events?

An unvaccinated person could read this thread and think, "Get vaccinated and you still need to stay home, still need to wear a mask all the time. Why bother?" This is exactly the wrong message to be sending right now.

[Chris Aguilar]

[Joe Lyons]

My mother and my father-in-law are both in their eighties, both have pre-existing health issues, both are vaccinated.
My father-in-law is going to dances, church and living his life.
My mother makes Thomas Pynchon look like a social butterfly.

Perversely, I agree with both of their stances.

[Jackpot]

People are notoriously bad at judging risk.

Facts or memes? While facts don't appeal to my emotions, they are better when making important decisions.

[Chas Nigh]

Where were all the anti-vaxers after the polio vaccine was created?