Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tricks

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Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tricks

Postby mrgoat » April 8th, 2015, 2:55 pm

Raw Dynamo.

If this is what we have to look forward to in his new live tour, I imagine many people will be asking for refunds.




I mean, OK, it's "nice" it was for charity, but really?

Appallingly corny patter “clear your minds, that was quick”
taking the wrong deck out and to cover the deck switch “look up at that helicopter”
messing up the bill switch and throwing money about the place
did you feel anything, no, that’s what my wife says
amazing palm of borrowed coin with him just holding his hand in a fist and then putting the coin in his pocket
appealing use of the intercessor gimmick
“I don’t what you to think I’m cheating, I am, but I don’t want you to think I am”
“Just write your name and your phone number on the card”
deck is dropped and rather than have a spare, he actually bends down and picks them all up

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby Bill Marquardt » April 8th, 2015, 3:36 pm

Maybe he will get better with practice.

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby Jack Shalom » April 8th, 2015, 10:27 pm

He's gallant, likable, approachable.
Sometimes that overpowers lousy technique.

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby mrgoat » April 9th, 2015, 1:20 am

Really? He seemed nervous, devoid of charm and reliant on awful hackneyed lines to me.

But everyone sees things differently I guess!

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby Matthew Field » April 9th, 2015, 3:59 am

Darren,

What do you gain by putting Dynamo down? He's a nice guy who's gotten a big break. Maybe he can pull the rabbit out of the hat.

He's been good for helping to popularise magic in the UK.

I know he's working on his stage show and I hope he succeeds.

Negativity helps nothing.

Matt Field

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby mrgoat » April 9th, 2015, 4:30 am

Matthew Field wrote:Darren,


Michael,

Matthew Field wrote: What do you gain by putting Dynamo down?


I posted a link of a famous magician performing like a rank amateur. I thought it would be of interest. Feel free to ask RK to delete it if videos of magicians performing badly are against the rules here.

Matthew Field wrote: He's a nice guy who's gotten a big break.


Maybe I think that he doesn't deserve it. Without Dan he certainly wouldn't have got where he is. On skill and charisma there are hundreds if not thousands of magi that can run rings around him.

Matthew Field wrote: Maybe he can pull the rabbit out of the hat.


Maybe

Matthew Field wrote: He's been good for helping to popularise magic in the UK.


Citation?

He's been good for making laypeople think things that need stooges and camera tricks are possible in real life. He's been good for making laypeople think that mumbling inept scripts are good etc etc. I don't believe he is furthering our art at all.

Matthew Field wrote: I know he's working on his stage show and I hope he succeeds.


I know he is working on it too! I mean, you would be, wouldn't you. If you had a big show, you'd work on it, right?

Matthew Field wrote: Negativity helps nothing.


Pointing out that someone famous is in fact a bit crap in real life is something that should be done. Emperor's New Clothes and all that.

If no one points out or discusses negative things people go around in a bubble thinking they are gods, when in fact, they are (as this video shows) a bit bobbins.

On a private forum I posted videos of my act and invited and welcomed negativity. Without anyone telling you what you are doing wrong, how on earth do you get better?

But, sorry if it offends or upsets you. It just gets my goat that 'the public' now think that the sort of stuff he does on his TV show is 'good magic'. And also this video proves that "IRL" without the editors and stooges, he's just no good. From chops, to standing still, to script, to audience management, he's crap.

From what I understand he is 'a nice chap', but he's certainly not a good magician.

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby Matthew Field » April 9th, 2015, 5:07 am

Sorry for the name mx-up.

You know I enjoy your company. I do hope you enjoy playing the snarky old man and that you think it's good for magic.

Matt Field.

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby vogler » April 9th, 2015, 5:35 am

I think he has something that many magicians they don't have. He speak the contemporary language for the people. He is not a very good technician but some others have better technique but they can't connect with the audience.
Also, when someone he is famous, this is not a proof that the is the king of magicians. This works for every field of art or science.
He is just someone who manipulates his carreer better than magic itself.
For me the ideal magician is the one who combines a good persona, a high class teqhnique and a warm smile. Does this remind you of Fred Kaps? What an artist.

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby Q. Kumber » April 9th, 2015, 5:39 am

Vernon used say what a lousy magician Houdini was, but he still admired his ability to do escapes and get publicity. Regardless of his abilities, Dynamo is the best known UK magician since Paul Daniels. (Derren is a mentalist).

This videoclip of Dynamo doing a car launch will be likely the kind of thing we'll see in his stage show, where there has obviously been a lot of rehearsal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sz2C7_nU1jw

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby El Mystico » April 9th, 2015, 7:37 am

Matt; out of interest, would you recommend this clip of Dynamo to inspire someone interested in becoming a magician?

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby Aaron Sterling » April 9th, 2015, 7:52 am

El Mystico wrote:Matt; out of interest, would you recommend this clip of Dynamo to inspire someone interested in becoming a magician?

I would. The reaction at 6:45 is great. Look how long she stays in the zone. It's more difficult to build that performing skill than it is to build SOH technique.

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby vogler » April 9th, 2015, 8:29 am

I agree. Sleight of hand can be nerdy without proper human contact. Still i don't really enjoyed his performance.

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby Joneseymagic » April 9th, 2015, 8:31 am

Dan is an excellent manager, but that's not the whole story.

I've known Dynamo since he was a young kid, and I'm really pleased for him. I've worked with him on many occasions, so I think I know him quite well.

Quite frankly, he's got where he is through sheer hard work. I know how much effort he has put in over the years (quite often doing unpaid shows etc) and it's paid off.

Forget about his technique - he's got something much harder to attain - likeability! He's got a gentle, shy performing persona that the British public have really taken to. Personally, I'm delighted that, despite his success, he's still the same Steve Frayne I first met. He's great with his fans - I've never seen him refuse an autograph or to pose for a photo. He's kept his feet on the ground, while still generating publicity and promoting himself. It's a difficult balancing act!

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby mrgoat » April 9th, 2015, 9:15 am

Matthew Field wrote:Sorry for the name mx-up.

You know I enjoy your company. I do hope you enjoy playing the snarky old man and that you think it's good for magic.

Matt Field.


Touche :)

See you soon I hope!

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby Leo Garet » April 9th, 2015, 10:53 am

mrgoat wrote:
Matthew Field wrote:Sorry for the name mx-up.

You know I enjoy your company. I do hope you enjoy playing the snarky old man and that you think it's good for magic.

Matt Field.


Touche :)

See you soon I hope!



For the benefit of the thickoes among us (me) am I to infer that Mister Goat actually adores Dynamo and is merely winding the handle? Or.......what?

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby mrgoat » April 9th, 2015, 11:05 am

Leo Garet wrote:
mrgoat wrote:
Matthew Field wrote:Sorry for the name mx-up.

You know I enjoy your company. I do hope you enjoy playing the snarky old man and that you think it's good for magic.

Matt Field.


Touche :)

See you soon I hope!



For the benefit of the thickoes among us (me) am I to infer that Mister Goat actually adores Dynamo and is merely winding the handle? Or.......what?


oh god no. definitely not. I do, however, enjoy spending time with Mr Field at the magic circle and I do enjoy playing the snarky old man on the internet.

But regarding Dynamo, I don't think *anyone* can watch that clip and think he is anything but, well, a word that would get censored here.

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby Brad Henderson » April 9th, 2015, 4:20 pm

let's not forget the irony that the stated reason Dynamo is trying now to perform live is because the audience has come to believe all TV magic is camera tricks and stooges.

I wonder from whom they got that idea?

He has painted himself into the same corner as criss Angel - his TV fans are likely to be diaappointed when he cannot achieve the same type of magical esperience live - and based on comments from people who I know who have worked with him, he will find that a challenge.

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby Richard Kaufman » April 9th, 2015, 4:51 pm

Just like with Criss Angel, I think we should wait until someone sees Dynamo's live show after it's been "worked in" and then hear some reviews.

We know how Criss Angel's show turned out, but Dynamo is an entirely different person. Let's give him a chance.
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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby Brad Henderson » April 9th, 2015, 5:31 pm

yes. it is possible Dynamos live show may be great. But the performance linked to above isn't. Shouldn't commentary there on be fair game?

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby Jack Shalom » April 9th, 2015, 6:21 pm

Do I think Dynamo's live show is world class? Of course not. But the audience likes him. In particular, look at his response to picking up the cards the spec dropped. Extremely good-natured and gallant about it. He makes the specs feel good. That's worth quite a bit in my opinion. Criss Angel never got that. If Dynamo isn't a genuinely nice person, then he's doing a heck of an acting job.

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby Brad Henderson » April 9th, 2015, 7:59 pm

then let's lets the people at the 'nice guy' forum sing his praises.

for magicians, or real people who want experience great magic, does he really have anything to offer?

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby Jack Shalom » April 9th, 2015, 8:58 pm

Brad Henderson wrote:
for magicians, or real people who want experience great magic, does he really have anything to offer?


He's not performing for magicians, and it's unlikely that most in the crowd know what great magic is. The number of people who produce great magic consistently is a number in the low two-digits, in my opinion.

What he is offering, for those who care to take it as a lesson, is what makes a crowd feel comfortable.

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby mrgoat » April 10th, 2015, 4:18 am

Jack Shalom wrote:Do I think Dynamo's live show is world class? Of course not.


No one has seen it yet.

This thread was meant to be about the awful video I posted of him performing in the OP. The one with the hackneyed lines, appalling stage presence, bad audience management, lousy chops etc.

I'm sure when he has his team doing the real work for him his live show will be much better that the embarrassing travesty of a performance (and I use the word loosely) I posted initially.

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby mrgoat » April 10th, 2015, 4:23 am

Jack Shalom wrote:
Brad Henderson wrote:
for magicians, or real people who want experience great magic, does he really have anything to offer?


He's not performing for magicians, and it's unlikely that most in the crowd know what great magic is.


Ah right. So it's OK to be lousy, because the people he is working for have no idea what good is?

That's a fairly astonishing position to take. I'm far from world class, but I strive to give what I consider a good performance of good magic whenever I work. I can't call myself great, but it's certainly what I strive for.

I would know what pocket my invisible deck is in. I wouldn't palm a coin my holding it in my closed fist and ditching it in my pocket. I would never use hackneyed cheesy lines. I would know how to stand. I would know how to bring audience members on stage and how to get them to stand where I want. etc etc.

Jack Shalom wrote:The number of people who produce great magic consistently is a number in the low two-digits, in my opinion.


So that means it's OK for the UK's most famous magician to not even bother to try then?

Jack Shalom wrote:What he is offering, for those who care to take it as a lesson, is what makes a crowd feel comfortable.


I don't think he does that at all. Because he is famous, the audience have a preconceived notion of what and who he is. Without his fame, if he performed like that I don't think he would get anything like the reaction he did (although his multiple card revelation had a dreadful reaction, as it always does each time I see him do it).

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby Aaron Sterling » April 10th, 2015, 11:36 am

Brad Henderson wrote:for magicians, or real people who want experience great magic, does he really have anything to offer?

On the off chance this is a serious question, I'll answer it.

One way to understand the issue is to compare this video to the promo video of Asi Wind's ACAAN, which is a professionally shot performance that took place in the Magic Castle. I expect most people on this forum (including me) would say that Asi Wind has better technique than Dynamo. And his ACAAN is impressive -- or, at least, it fooled me -- while Dynamo is performing tricks created by others. And yet, I would recommend the Dynamo video to a new magician, over the Wind ACAAN video, 100 times out of 100. Why? The quality of audience reaction. In the ACAAN video, the female spectator is so tense and uncomfortable, she does not enjoy the reveal and just wants everything to be over.

Everyone has a bad day, and I'm sure Asi Wind is a great live performer, although I have never seen him live. But, to me, the fact that this is the official demo video for a trick, is something I find borderline offensive and sexist. Clearly the only reason for the video is to fool the male socially awkward viewer so that he wants to buy the trick. Borderline nonconsensual use of female volunteers? Who cares.

By contrast, the female (and male) volunteers in the Dynamo video are all glad to be there.

I think the way to learn from videos like these is to focus on the audience, not the performer. Quality of reaction, level of sincerity of applause. And if there's a particularly nice moment of audience reaction, try to understand how the performer constructed that.

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby mrgoat » April 10th, 2015, 12:33 pm

Aaron Sterling wrote:By contrast, the female (and male) volunteers in the Dynamo video are all glad to be there.


They are glad to be there because he is famous, not because they like seeing him palm a coin by holding it in his closed fist before horribly ditching it in his pocket.

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby Aaron Sterling » April 10th, 2015, 12:47 pm

mrgoat wrote:They are glad to be there because he is famous, not because they like seeing him palm a coin by holding it in his closed fist before horribly ditching it in his pocket.

There are three story arcs:

1. The story arc of the performance.
2. The story arc of the performer's brand.
3. The story arc of the performer's real life.

Many magicians only have the stagecraft to make (1) characterful. But a serious performer invests time and character development in all three. The audience deserves no less.

I've heard many people talk about the importance of "meaning in magic" while refusing to engage in constructive brand management. In addition to being a foolish business decision, it's a small-but-real form of audience abuse. You're denying your audience the single most meaningful aspect of your performance: the audience member's chance to spend one-on-one time with someone they admire.

The experience is more magical because of Dynamo's fame. I agree. But the lesson to take away from that isn't, "Therefore this video has nothing to teach us." Rather, it's: "If no one knows who I am except for magicians, then I am doing 'meaning in magic' wrong."

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby M.Lee » April 10th, 2015, 1:24 pm

Have to Agree w/ Richard
Give the guy a chance to trod the boards for awhile.

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby mrgoat » April 10th, 2015, 1:40 pm

Aaron Sterling wrote:
The experience is more magical because of Dynamo's fame. I agree. But the lesson to take away from that isn't, "Therefore this video has nothing to teach us." Rather, it's: "If no one knows who I am except for magicians, then I am doing 'meaning in magic' wrong."


Interesting counterpoint. The lesson I take away is "Dynamo is really a very bad magician without his team pulling the strings making it work".

To each his own though.

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby mrgoat » April 10th, 2015, 1:42 pm

M.Lee wrote:Have to Agree w/ Richard
Give the guy a chance to trod the boards for awhile.

Michael Lee


I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that, we're talking about the very poor performance in this video. I'm sure with a director, pre-show, stooges etc he'll put on a fine show in the tour. Just without any of that, he's embarrassingly bad.

Sure, he is a 'nice bloke', sure he 'worked hard', but [CENSORED] he's not actually at all talented when all the nonsense is stripped away. That was my (I thought obvious) point.

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby Brad Henderson » April 10th, 2015, 3:00 pm

from Aaron: I've heard many people talk about the importance of "meaning in magic" while refusing to engage in constructive brand management. In addition to being a foolish business decision, it's a small-but-real form of audience abuse. You're denying your audience the single most meaningful aspect of your performance: the audience member's chance to spend one-on-one time with someone they admire. ""

again, you have no idea what you are talking about. Celebrity and brands are hollow facades that act as a substitute for real quality time. One need not treat themself as a commodity in order to deliver quality time. A 'brand' who fails to live up to their self created narrative in person leaves the audience disappointed. THAT is audienae abuse. No harm comes from providing quality time to someone who expects nothing. If anything, the audience's experience is heightened.

the ultimate measure is how we make our audiences feel. If your goal is to be a magician (and not just 'famous') it would make sense for the majority of that feeling to be at least some What related to the magic one performs, not the publicity one has bought.

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby Aaron Sterling » April 10th, 2015, 3:42 pm

Brad Henderson wrote:again, you have no idea what you are talking about.

I'm well aware that my position is not consistent with the Stockholm Syndrome mentality that so many US magicians operate under. "Magicians will always be marginalized anyway, so I won't invest energy in brand management, because if I did then my obscurity would hurt more." But that isn't a mentality that afflicts all magicians worldwide. I've seen it most pronounced, by far, in the US.

I've been on TV enough, and in front of enough crowds -- not as a magician, in a different realm -- that I was a local celebrity in a medium-sized US city. There was always someone who knew who I was, no matter where I went, within the geographic area. And, let me tell you, it was a wonderful tool. People were more interested in talking to me, they took what I had to say more seriously, the whole nine. That's a tool that can aid all kinds of public presentations, including variety arts, and including magic. And the magic performers I know in real life probably agree with me -- at least they humor me to my face when I say stuff.

So I see you as the odd man out here, to be honest, not the voice of reason. I don't see any benefit to participating in the US magic culture of low expectations.

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby Brad Henderson » April 10th, 2015, 5:26 pm

your problem Aaron is like most young people you confuse contact with content and hits with quality. Bad magic being seen by more people does not improve the world's negative opinion of magic, it reinforces it.

of course there are benefits to being recognized.

but it is not the panacea you have suggested AND as we have seen, can work to ones detriment when the brand narrative is more impressive than the reality delivered.

see, it's not lack of branding that keeps magicians marginalized. not even all the celebrity purchased by criss Angel will make up for an inability to deliver engaging magic which conveys deep feelingful responses. Sure, in America, celebrity DOES convey feeling - let's face it, that's the only thing Criss has going for him.

But, if your goal is to perform magic for people, then your magic must deliver, otherwise you end up having to change your whole direction because your audience realizes it's all camera tricks and stooges.

You know - like what Dynamo is having to do. as per his own words

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby Q. Kumber » April 10th, 2015, 7:31 pm

Brad's post reminds me of a brief conversation overheard last year in the Ruskin Hotel Blackpool. It's about 2am and Mark is going to the bar and beside it are a group of 14-16 year-olds.

One of the older ones, obviously referring to a contemporary of theirs says, "I'm having nothing to do with him anymore."
"Why not?" asks one of the others, somewhat surprised.
"He genuinely thinks he's more famous than I am."

We live in an age of celebrity, where just having your picture in the paper, or being on TV, seems to make the masses believe someone has something to offer or are worth listening to. Back in the 80's I went to one of Dame Edna's shows in London. Dame Edna told us that there were so many chat shows and not enough celebrities to go around them that she predicted that it would not be too long before the appearance of non-entities on those shows, to fill space and time. How right she was.

Barry Humphries (Dame Edna) has had a career in showbiz spanning over sixty years and is currently on his farewell tour - which I caught last year in Manchester. Edna carved out a unique niche on TV as the person whose show that real A list celebrities wanted to be on.

At the end of the touring show, Edna slips off to change back into Humphries and during that few minutes the following clip plays on a large screen https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=y ... pp=desktop

Edna isn't a favourite with everyone, but Humphries certainly knows showbiz.

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby Richard Kaufman » April 10th, 2015, 9:22 pm

I love Dame Edna, and Les Patterson just make me wet my pants.
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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby AJM » April 11th, 2015, 5:45 am

I've seen Edna and Les a number of times live over the years along with a number of the lesser known characters such as Sandy Stone and Lance Boyle (!) - Les' 'brother', a man of the cloth, also turned up on the farewell tour.

Barry Humphries is a genius.

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby Jack Shalom » April 12th, 2015, 9:43 pm

mrgoat wrote:
Jack Shalom wrote:What he is offering, for those who care to take it as a lesson, is what makes a crowd feel comfortable.


I don't think he does that at all. Because he is famous, the audience have a preconceived notion of what and who he is. Without his fame, if he performed like that I don't think he would get anything like the reaction he did (although his multiple card revelation had a dreadful reaction, as it always does each time I see him do it).


Criss Angel is the counter-example.

Look, if you don't feel there's anything worthwhile there, fine. I'm stupid enough to have learned something watching him.

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby performer » August 22nd, 2015, 2:16 pm

Methinks the grapes are a little sour. Jealousy is a terrible thing.

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Re: Dynamo really is bad without the stooges and camera tric

Postby performer » August 22nd, 2015, 10:26 pm

This is the first time I had a chance to look at the video but it seems to have been taken down, I hope not as a result of this thread.

I must say that I find it a very unpleasant characteristic of magicians to leap at the chance to criticise a fellow performer or in many cases a performer without the "fellow" bit. In other words the critics don't necessarily perform themselves.

I am afraid I have also been guilty of this in the past. It is really tempting to snipe at someone else but it is not a good habit to indulge in. It is mean spirited and is a reflection of the critic's state of mind and frustrated ego rather than the criticism itself. In other words they are criticising because of either conscious or subconscious jealousy. They feel in their heart of hearts that they should be up there instead of the victim of their criticism.

However, they fail to remember that if their wish were granted then THEY would be the target of criticism in their turn. Human nature I am afraid. If Dynamo is reading this the first thing he should remember is that the opinion of other magicians are of no relevance or importance whatsoever. They plain don't count. The trouble with magicians is that they think their opinions matter. Well they don't. Not even a tiny little bit. They are based on at best bias and at worst jealousy. And they are usually WRONG!

Every single magician of any fame to the public is criticised unmercifully by magicians. I can't think of a single one that isn't. The more famous they are the more they are criticised. Paul Daniels, David Copperfield, Criss Angel, Kreskin, David Nixon, Chan Canasta, Al Koran, David Blaine etc; etc;. Every single one torn to pieces and every single one laughing all the way to the bank. It has always been thus and will always be thus.

And the most famous one of all time (Houdini) is still criticised by magicians nearly 90 years after his death. They are still saying he was a bad conjurer. I strongly suspect he was nowhere near as bad as he was stated to be.

Dynamo should count his money and discount his critics. They are the losers and he is the winner. He must have done something right. What I have no idea but he should certainly make the most of it.

If you are chasing fame you had better have a thick skin. Counting your money will help to grow that skin.

Dougini
Posts: 39
Joined: August 23rd, 2010, 6:34 pm
Favorite Magician: There are too many

Re: Dynamo really is bad...etc

Postby Dougini » November 14th, 2015, 12:19 pm

I found that Fiat appearance truly magical! Not sure about the OP, since that has been deleted from YouTube.

Doug


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