Underground Playing Cards: Diamond Edition-- My first KS

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dhmagic
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Underground Playing Cards: Diamond Edition-- My first KS

Postby dhmagic » July 7th, 2014, 1:00 am

Hey guys!

Im Danielle Horowitz from LA. I'm a Junior Member at the Magic Castle, and have been a magician for years. I wanted to share my Kickstarter on here because I know it is unique and a type KS most of you have never seen before!
Currently, I have a Kickstarter Campaign running for my first Custom Deck of cards. I have worked very hard on it, and value all thoughts you all may have.
Some of the rewards are one-of-a-kind, so please be sure to check them out. My personal favorite is the hand-made close up pads. You will have the ability to choose
the color you want, so it will be made how you want it!
Again, PLEASE check out my campaign and let me know your thoughts.
Please share to others too!

Thank you SO SO SO much!

Danielle Horowitz
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dan ... n-printed/[/b]

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Smurf
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Re: Underground Playing Cards: Diamond Edition-- My first KS

Postby Smurf » July 7th, 2014, 2:00 am

Danielle,

I applaud your initiative in wading into the deck producing waters. Unfortunately, the artwork for this deck appears to be unrefined. The back artwork and color scheme don't grab me and even the ace and joker show no depth. Minimalist artwork can be hard to make impressive. Artistic opinions can vary, but those are my initial thoughts. I've been collecting decks off and on for about 30-years and these wouldn't make into my collection.

John

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Re: Underground Playing Cards: Diamond Edition-- My first KS

Postby Rick Ruhl » July 7th, 2014, 9:49 am

I think they look fine. She's a young magician. They'll be in my collection.

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Re: Underground Playing Cards: Diamond Edition-- My first KS

Postby Chris Aguilar » July 7th, 2014, 10:41 am

With a glut of good looking specialty decks out there, this one doesn't really stand out.

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mrgoat
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Re: Underground Playing Cards: Diamond Edition-- My first KS

Postby mrgoat » July 7th, 2014, 11:42 am

First off, congrats on standing up and doing something off your own back. Takes guts to do that. I applaud you.

TOUGH LOVE WARNING, DO NOT READ IF YOU ARE SENSITIVE.

That being said, the design is really horrible. It looks like you got a friend to do it, with little design experience and certainly no experience in designing cards.

My advice would be to save up some cash and pay a real designer to do the work, then relaunch the campaign.

PickaCard
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Re: Underground Playing Cards: Diamond Edition-- My first KS

Postby PickaCard » July 7th, 2014, 11:46 am

I think they are nice and can have its appeal. I have seen much worse designs offered for sale in the past years.

mrgoat:

TOUGH LOVE WARNING, DO NOT READ IF YOU ARE SENSITIVE.

You're a real jerk.

Bill Mullins
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Re: Underground Playing Cards: Diamond Edition-- My first KS

Postby Bill Mullins » July 7th, 2014, 12:25 pm

Good luck on your deck.

The design of the diamond on the box is physically impossible -- you cannot get facets shaped like they are on the design. Some folks won't notice, but that jumped out to me. An experienced, trained designer would have had enough classes in drawing not to make this mistake.

These are more realistic:
Image
Image

This page may be helpful to your designer if she wants to try again.

Also, you say you will be packing and shipping the decks from your dorm room. I hope you don't get in trouble with your school for violating paragraph 8.a.

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mrgoat
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Re: Underground Playing Cards: Diamond Edition-- My first KS

Postby mrgoat » July 7th, 2014, 12:41 pm

PickaCard wrote:You're a real jerk.


Name calling, how erudite.

There are two options here.

a) Let her think her design is in anyway acceptable and tell her she will raise the required $9k despite her being a child with no experience of selling anything

b) Praise her for trying to do something off her own back, but let her know that design isn't up to scratch for a professional, and advise her to pay a professional to do it

So, you obviously thing b is bad. What will you tell if you take option a) and when it crashes and burns, which is will?

I think it is better to tell someone that is doing something badly that it is bad and offer ways it could be improved, rather than let them go around life thinking bad things are good.

But, you carry on calling me names if it makes you feel better about yourself.

Tom Pilling
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Re: Underground Playing Cards: Diamond Edition-- My first KS

Postby Tom Pilling » July 7th, 2014, 12:51 pm

Somehow I was reminded of a misspent youth:

Image

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MManchester
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Re: Underground Playing Cards: Diamond Edition-- My first KS

Postby MManchester » July 7th, 2014, 2:34 pm

I remember many of my ill-advised projects. I wanted to be a filmmaker and wrote many bad scripts. I actually had Tony Curtis phone me after contacting him about a role in a film. Only then did I realize that the script was garbage. When we're young, we think we know more than we actually do. It's the folly of youth.

This is your first post on the forum. You are a junior member of the Magic Castle. You've never made a deck of cards before and yet you assert on your campaign page that this is the "best deck" we'll ever own. I am reminded of a scene in the documentary Magic Camp. A boy learns tricks, sets up a Web site and starts doing children's shows. He goes to the camp only to discover that his skill level is well below that of older, more experienced hobbyists. He leaves before the week is over.

You write that the USPCC will be printing only 2500 decks. A couple of years ago I self-published a book and I'm very proud of the result. My print run was 300 copies and I've sold only 2 copies. I created a dedicated Web site and had a book launch announcement on an e-mail list. Otherwise, I can't afford to advertise to raise awareness so most of them remain in unopened boxes. What are your plans when you have thousands of decks of cards that no one wants?

We also learn that by the time you will be funded and printed, you will be distributing the decks. The designs on your Kickstarter page show printer's marks and bleeds. Have you already committed the money to printing these decks and are just assuming that you will be successful in your fundraising? You should have come to the forum first seeking advice. Did you approach anyone at the Castle for feedback? This could be a very expensive lesson.

You can't find a deck of cards that you love? Dan and Dave have many beautiful and professionally designed ones on their Web site. For magic purposes, it's not the look of the deck but what you do with it that matters. No spectator should remember the design. These have hardly been perfected as you claim and I join the others here in voicing my dislike for your design. They are unremarkable at best.

Do you have a card routine that you love? If you enjoy magic, devising a new routine or an updated handling would have been a better way to introduce yourself here.
Michael Manchester
Literacy magic for library and school performances - http://www.librarylegerdemain.com

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Underground Playing Cards: Diamond Edition-- My first KS

Postby Richard Kaufman » July 7th, 2014, 3:44 pm

Jeez!

From the comments posted here I clicked on the link to Kick Starter and expected to see some gruesome crap artwork designed by a baboon.

I thought it was nice, and felt she deserved some encouragement. Genii just donated to her Kick Starter effort.

Damian, you'll feel different when your child grows up.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

Tom Pilling
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Re: Underground Playing Cards: Diamond Edition-- My first KS

Postby Tom Pilling » July 7th, 2014, 3:47 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:


[...] Damian, you'll feel different when your child grows up.


True.
Last edited by Tom Pilling on July 7th, 2014, 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Chris Aguilar
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Re: Underground Playing Cards: Diamond Edition-- My first KS

Postby Chris Aguilar » July 7th, 2014, 3:52 pm

How much does USPCC usually charge per deck for their minimum order of 2500? Assuming a fairly standard customized print run (no special inks and so on). More than $2/deck?
Last edited by Chris Aguilar on July 7th, 2014, 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mrgoat
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Re: Underground Playing Cards: Diamond Edition-- My first KS

Postby mrgoat » July 7th, 2014, 4:10 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:
Damian, you'll feel different when your child grows up.


I bloody hope not. If my child publicly asks for money for something that bad, I will encourage them to find ways to put out something better.

Of course, if this is just a "patronising pat on the back club isn't it sweet she tried" here, then awesome and ignore my posts, or delete them.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Underground Playing Cards: Diamond Edition-- My first KS

Postby Richard Kaufman » July 7th, 2014, 4:13 pm

Damian, your opinions are always very white or very black. No room for gray. The world is filled with things which fall in the middle.
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Rick Ruhl
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Re: Underground Playing Cards: Diamond Edition-- My first KS

Postby Rick Ruhl » July 7th, 2014, 4:50 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:Jeez!

From the comments posted here I clicked on the link to Kick Starter and expected to see some gruesome crap artwork designed by a baboon.

I thought it was nice, and felt she deserved some encouragement. Genii just donated to her Kick Starter effort.

Damian, you'll feel different when your child grows up.


So did I Richard... she's young and goodness knows and everything we did was a learning experience.

It seems many on here have grumpy old man syndrome. ;). "GET OFF MY LAWN, KID"! LOL

Tom Pilling
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Re: Underground Playing Cards: Diamond Edition-- My first KS

Postby Tom Pilling » July 7th, 2014, 4:52 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:Damian, your opinions are always very white or very black. No room for gray. [...]


It's how we won the War, Richard.

Erm.

No, hold on. That was the Russians and Americans.

Damn.

Still, to be honest, I really don't like these, but it is just a matter of taste. I approve of the entrepreneurial spirit.

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Re: Underground Playing Cards: Diamond Edition-- My first KS

Postby Richard Kaufman » July 7th, 2014, 5:15 pm

When I look back at the first trick I put on the market through Tannen's at 15 years of age, I cringe. In fact, there's a lot of cringing for many early books, too.

Thank goodness those transgressions weren't held against me.
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Tom Pilling
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Re: Underground Playing Cards: Diamond Edition-- My first KS

Postby Tom Pilling » July 7th, 2014, 5:41 pm

My skeletons moved out of the cupboard some time time ago and now occupy the spare room. However, they are campaigning for more living space, as they are finding it cramped in there too. Damn skeletons.

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mrgoat
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Re: Underground Playing Cards: Diamond Edition-- My first KS

Postby mrgoat » July 7th, 2014, 6:03 pm

Tom Pilling wrote: I approve of the entrepreneurial spirit.


As do I, which is why I opened my post praising exactly that.

However, if we solely praise someone for just 'trying' they will not improve.

Life, sadly, isn't the special olympics and no prizes are given for just trying.

Sorry if I upset people's sensibilities. I was trying to help her.

Tell you what, if she hits the KS target, I'll give her $100, give her permission to print "mrgoat was wrong and is a big poopy head" on her site... and the name of a good artist she can work with on her next deck.

Tom Pilling
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Re: Underground Playing Cards: Diamond Edition-- My first KS

Postby Tom Pilling » July 7th, 2014, 6:21 pm

mrgoat wrote:
Tom Pilling wrote: I approve of the entrepreneurial spirit.


As do I, which is why I opened my post praising exactly that.

However, if we solely praise someone for just 'trying' they will not improve.

Life, sadly, isn't the special olympics and no prizes are given for just trying.

Sorry if I upset people's sensibilities. I was trying to help her.

Tell you what, if she hits the KS target, I'll give her $100, give her permission to print "mrgoat was wrong and is a big poopy head" on her site... and the name of a good artist she can work with on her next deck.


Now there's an offer! :D

How much did you say the KS target was? Now, where's my cheque book...

(Full marks for being truthful. It's important to get that sort of feedback.)

Brad Henderson
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Re: Underground Playing Cards: Diamond Edition-- My first KS

Postby Brad Henderson » July 7th, 2014, 7:33 pm

if we didn't know the poster was 1) a junior magic castle member and 2) a female, would the responses be the same?

based on the responses to many other threads introducing products, i'm not so sure.

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MManchester
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Re: Underground Playing Cards: Diamond Edition-- My first KS

Postby MManchester » July 7th, 2014, 7:54 pm

She's not selling magic. She's selling a deck of cards which are not inherently magical. If it wasn't for the fact she's a junior Castle member there would really be no reason to post here. The world doesn't need another deck of cards. Original attempts at magic, no matter how cringe-inducing, are inspiring and I would gladly support that.
Michael Manchester
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Tom Pilling
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Re: Underground Playing Cards: Diamond Edition-- My first KS

Postby Tom Pilling » July 7th, 2014, 7:57 pm

Then you should definitely support this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjkhvken1Y4

It is indeed superior to some I have seen.

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Smurf
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Re: Underground Playing Cards: Diamond Edition-- My first KS

Postby Smurf » July 7th, 2014, 9:24 pm

I didn't think I was being particularly harsh and I thought Damian's comments were spot on.

There are decks failing on Kickstarter every month that have more going for them this project has. There have been so many projects that were funded and then the originators found themselves under water with unforeseen expenses. Another common problem is delays (months to 1-year) in sending out orders due to the amount of work involved. Sometimes the deck producer keeps delaying the work or the makers of the other items offered as incentrives. I've seen so many troubled decks on KS and I've been hit by a few that I have ceased buying anything on KS. It is much safer to buy something already in existence.

This project just isn't going to make it - but that isn't meant as a personal slam on the creator - I'm giving a "business" opinion based on my experience in the deck market.

Sure, some "angel" could push it through, but the product itself isn't strong enough to carry this to a successful KS project.

I hope she doesn't get discouraged, but is instead challenged to keep moving forward with her design work.

Roger M.
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Re: Underground Playing Cards: Diamond Edition-- My first KS

Postby Roger M. » July 7th, 2014, 10:02 pm

One can be supportive but honest without being rude and condescending.

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Re: Underground Playing Cards: Diamond Edition-- My first KS

Postby NYCJoePItt » July 7th, 2014, 11:55 pm

Roger M. wrote:One can be supportive but honest without being rude and condescending.


Probably the best thing posted on this thread so far. I've always felt that honesty with a bit of compassion went a long way.

I've contributed to several decks on Kickstarter. While I admire the effort on this one, I really don't care for either the simplistic colors or the design. Just not my cup of tea.

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Re: Underground Playing Cards: Diamond Edition-- My first KS

Postby Leonard Hevia » July 9th, 2014, 9:17 pm

If this deck comes with a white boarder and Bicycle 808 faces, I'm in. I like the fact that there aren't too many lines and circles all over the back as if it was made with a Spirograph. I also see the possibilities for these cards in packet tricks where the backs magically change as in Jim Swain's The Capitulating Queens or a Nick Trost effect. Diamonds are a girls best friend, and these cards can create presentational possibilities on this theme.

Michael Skinner once said that the fault lies in the magician's imagination and not the props.

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Re: Underground Playing Cards: Diamond Edition-- My first KS

Postby Bill Mullins » July 10th, 2014, 9:54 am

One of the J's on the Joker design is backwards. (And I can't say I care much for the typeface you've used for the J and A).

The dominant word on your box is "Underground". But the theme of the deck is Diamonds, so Underground is a distraction and doesn't support the rest of the deck's "story". You've got to see the KS video for Underground to make sense.

Albino Dragon has run a couple of Kickstarter Decks. Here and and elsewhere on their blog are some problems they've had, unanticipated costs, etc. Might be worth reading.

Ted M
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Re: Underground Playing Cards: Diamond Edition-- My first KS

Postby Ted M » July 10th, 2014, 1:10 pm

Bill Mullins wrote:The dominant word on your box is "Underground". But the theme of the deck is Diamonds, so Underground is a distraction and doesn't support the rest of the deck's "story". You've got to see the KS video for Underground to make sense.


Do diamonds grow on trees? No, they're dug from underground. It makes sense on its own.

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Re: Underground Playing Cards: Diamond Edition-- My first KS

Postby Chris Aguilar » May 20th, 2015, 1:48 pm

Ultimately, this kickstarter deck failed to meet its funding goal.


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