The Genii Forum

This is a weird performance/video!

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x10g74_ricky-jay-1

A standard method, with a lot of blustering.

Dave (who usually enjoys Ricky Jay's performances inordinately)

I wonder if he was acting, or really getting the money!Anyway a great lesson!

Wow, it was like Ricky Jay with caffeine overload. Another great performance -- I loved it.

If it was supposed to be entertainment then I wasn't entertained. What was the point? Did he improve his image by doing this stunt? I just don't get it.

rnaviaux

I can understand Ricky's irritation, real or feigned, in having to deal with people who are a bit "slow."

I'd love to know the back story on this to put it in context.

Some background is available here: Ricky Jay\'s 10 Card Poker Deal

-Jim

Note the title, "A Correctly Structured Drama".

This was a BBC documentary Ricky participated in.
The folks in the video didn't know he was acting, and he went in to appologize to them afterwards, explaining that his anger was just acting.

There's another detailed thread on this subject over on the Cafe.

Notice the bottom of the screen "Ovation" which is a British arts and entertainment show.

Bottom line.....this is a put on, and Ricky doesn't have any anger issues.

An angry player did not accept the apologies and removed the video filmed!!!!!! :D (the second referred to)

Loved it! We dont see quite enough of Ricky jay anywhere... Does anyone know where I can see him? Is there a dvd of his shows? Or anything, anywhere?

Seb,

If you look to the right, you will see a link to Ricky Jay Plays Poker at Amazon. Click on that, purchase the Deluxe edition and with it you will get a half-hour DVD of Ricky Jay performing several poker deals and other demonstrations. (It ships in February, but I was able to get a copy at a performance out here, so I have seen it and its worth the wait.)

You also get a deck of cards and a great booklet along with the music CD.

A little review I wrote of it is HERE.


Dustin

Thanks Dustin,

I certainly will check it out!

S

Hello Dustin,

It might be me, but when I click on the link on the right I only see the regular edition (without the DVD) on amazon and can't seem to find the deluxe version there.

Can be more precise?

Thanks.

Haim

At that price, $39, Im certain its the deluxe version that includes the DVD, booklet, and cards. In fact, I no longer see the CD only version on Amazon (which cost substantially less). It makes me wonder if the producer has pulled the CD only version in favor of the multi-disc set only. That might explain the delay (to accommodate repackaging).

Dustin

Just to add more evidence to my belief, on Rickys site there are two links to Sony: One for the CD and one for the CD/DVD. Both links take you to the CD/DVD set.

Dustin

Thanks :)

I might wait for amazon to change their description.

I'd long heard about this clip and I'm really glad to finally see it. I loved it! Mamet's acting teacher was the great Sanford Meisner and Ricky's acting in this piece is classic Meisner "reacting to what he is given." I am eagerly awaiting my "Ricky Jay Plays Poker" package from Amazon.

The video clip was interesting to watch. But was it A Correctly Structured Drama? Maybe somebody here who knows what a correctly structured drama is will enlighten us. (Ive always thought of true drama as depicting palpable conflict over a serious issue.)

Was it acting? Or is the genteel image in RJ and his 52 Assistants acting?

Clay, your RJ Jones is showing.

I think you know full well that both are acting.

Since when does a drama have to be about a serious issue?

Conflict is the key word.

Is it properly constructed? Thats a subjective question based on what someones idea of what a properly constructed drama is. I suspect that the director of the special from which this clip is taken believes that it is. So yes, its a properly constructed drama.

Dustin

Are rhetorical elements of speech no longer in vogue or understood? :D Perhaps both are acting or perhaps neither is acting? Sometimes, res ipsa loquitur (sp?), sometimes not.

Seriously, I think the clips title is provocative; and thus the first question in my post, posed with sincerity. A directors statement of fact does not make it so, dear Dustin. If thats the case, then by analogy, any book you claimed was rare would have to be rare, no? Saying its so doesnt make it so. Nor does saying its so mean that that the claimant is serious (at least in terms of the truth of the claim) one of the wonderful aspects of art.

If conflict is the sole criterion, then any conflict (disagreement, argument, competition, etc.) in the world must be drama. So, the Super Bowl and haggling over a price at the swap meet are dramas? Perhaps you are correct in your definition, but I would have thought there is more to it than that.

Originally posted by Magicam:
So, the Super Bowl and haggling over a price at the swap meet are dramas?

The drama of sport is well known. Think about Jim McKays opening for ABC's Wide World of Sports."

Spanning the globe to bring you the constant variety of sports... the thrill of victory... and the agony of defeat... the human drama of athletic competition... This is ABC's Wide World of Sports!

And it depends on who you shop/haggle with! :D

Unless someone has spoken to the producers and director of the show whose clip is being linked to, there is no way to tell if Ricky is is genuinely losing his temper or not. Even if he returned and spoke to the people afterward, he might have just been doing that after cooling off.
Everyone loses their temper once in a while. :)

When this was first aired here in the UK there was a mixed reaction from people I spoke to afterwards. Some thought his anger was real and disliked the performance - others assumed it was acting. As for my opinion - I don't know! Maybe Ricky acted too well :)

Peter

Maybe he was just venting all of his anger at the hoi polloi of the magic world again... :p

Either way, it certainly created a lot of interest and speculation at the time and now, via the internet, will continue to do so!

Originally posted by Magicam:
If conflict is the sole criterion, then any conflict (disagreement, argument, competition, etc.) in the world must be drama. So, the Super Bowl and haggling over a price at the swap meet are dramas? Perhaps you are correct in your definition, but I would have thought there is more to it than that.

This is the definition of drama that Neil Simon uses:

Somebody wants something, and they can't get it.

That doesn't mean it's a good drama, or interesting, compelling, etc. But that's all you need for drama.

Originally posted by John Wilson:
Maybe he was just venting all of his anger at the hoi polloi of the magic world again... :p

Wonder what he thought about himself when he was a beginner. Man, talk about self-hate...

If he was genuinely angry, then he was angry at the producers for selecting spectators who didn't fit the criteria he needed for the routine he'd prepared.
If he was acting, then he was doing a very good job--which is certainly possible, because he can be a very good actor.

Given the context as a UK special on scams, what would be the purpose of staging a bit where Ricky blows up like that. No I think he blew up and I can see why. He expects the producer to provide him with some non-confrontational assistants to demonstarate a type of scam and right away the thing gets bogged down and way off where the focus should be. The producer should have edited it out but of course they leave it in because "edgy" is what sells all of TV today.

Arnie

It was acting.

Yeah, I also think he was acting, but then...who knows? :)

Given the context as a UK special on scams, what would be the purpose of staging a bit where Ricky blows up like that.

one distinct possibility is that it portrays how the operator of this kind of scam would really act...particularly when dealing with this kind of mark...it places the questioning mark on the defensive...makes it clear that you play by his rules or don't play...and, by p*ssing off the mark...perhaps he plays more impulsively and bets more aggressively...trying to give this assh*le what's coming to him...

I don't know how the jonah scam is actually worked...but the psychology shown in the clip is similar to what's described in the School for Scoundrels analysis of the way the Cracker Parker mob ran three card monte...

N.

It was definitely acting, and no, Ricky didn't "blow up." Just theorizing, but I think part of the reason this is "A Correctly Structured Drama" is told at the end. When Ricky gets up and storms out the door, the squares seem more puzzled by his extreme behavior than the fact that they just lost a sizeable chunk of change. They know they were taken, but they don't seem as angry about it as befuddled by his demeanor. The money wasn't their main focus; it was him.

This may be the way to really play this con in the wild: put down the cards, tell people they're going to lose, and be as much of an arrogant ass about it as is humanly possible. When they do lose, they're so spun by the interaction that the money becomes secondary. How much better could it be for the guy walking away with the wad? They can't even accuse you of cheating, because you TOLD them what was going to happen, and they played anyway.

I think this was a great demonstration. ;)

I still haven't read one logical explanation of why Ricky Jay representing himself in a TV special and not playing a character would act that way. Does it really fit in to the theme of a TV special on scams? Has he done this act in the past? I don't think so. Con guys do get aggressive to get the mark to cooperate but IMO the first scene in this video goes way beyond a logical planned method of getting someone to cooperate.

Arnie

Arnie,

My take on it is that he didn't act that way to get the guy to cooperate. He acted that way to take the heat off the money.

Cheers,


Lance

Originally posted by Lance Pierce:
When Ricky gets up and storms out the door, the squares seem more puzzled by his extreme behavior than the fact that they just lost a sizeable chunk of change. They know they were taken, but they don't seem as angry about it as befuddled by his demeanor. The money wasn't their main focus; it was him.

I think that hits the nail on the head as to his motivation. There's no doubt in my mind it was all a performance and a very good one.

Originally posted by Jim Coles:
I think that hits the nail on the head as to his motivation. There's no doubt in my mind it was all a performance and a very good one.

I thought so too, on all three counts. That was the motivation; it was a performance; it was a good performance.

And I was sure that it was just that - a performance, an act. But I found it unpleasant to watch.

Dave

The blow up as blow off, eh? Sounds possible to me. I do want to point out that the 10 card poker deal, while much discussed in theory, is very difficult to make entertaining. It is repetitive, a direct challange and, despite one's best efforts, can make the performer look like a real jerk thumbing his nose repeatedly at the poor "mark." If this was part of a longer special or a series, then the audience has seen plenty of him in other performance situations. I think it is unlikely that they would think this is the "real Ricky." I think it is great that he is pushing the envelope and going for an extreme emotion in the performance of a routine. Not many performers can pull it off and few magicians even try for a range of emotions and energy in their shows.

Well maybe you gents are right but that first spectator provides him with enough back talk to make the skit seem very real. If he was acting and did it spontaneously when that first spec protested the use of his cards and the rules, he had me completely fooled. For only the 101st time.

Arnie

Originally posted by arnie:
Does it really fit in to the theme of a TV special on scams?

This was not a special about scams. It was a documentary about Ricky Jay. I believe this segment is the very last one on the program. Earlier ones showed him examining rare volumes on conjuring at the Huntington Library, working with Michael Weber on a film consulting project, giving a private performance (my favorite segment of the show, really wonderful). It is unfortunate that this segment is the only one that gets remembered...