Sweden Going Cashless

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P.T.Widdle
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Sweden Going Cashless

Postby P.T.Widdle » December 27th, 2015, 7:40 pm

"Bills and coins now represent just 2 percent of Sweden’s economy, compared with 7.7 percent in the United States and 10 percent in the euro area. "

Tom Stone, thoughts?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/27/busin ... nears.html

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Tom Stone
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Re: Sweden Going Cashless

Postby Tom Stone » December 27th, 2015, 10:05 pm

P.T.Widdle wrote:"Bills and coins now represent just 2 percent of Sweden’s economy, compared with 7.7 percent in the United States and 10 percent in the euro area. "

Tom Stone, thoughts?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/27/busin ... nears.html

It's very annoying when you've got a lot of cash and can't find a bank that handles cash. And I don't like that US credit card companies have got such large influence here, as they force stupid US morality and doublestandards upon us - like refusing to handle donations to Wikileaks, when they don't mind handle donations to K.K.K. Or, without explanation, prevent swedish customers from buying swedish sextoys from swedish webshops, because those things are considered "obscene" in the US.
But other than that, it is quite practical and convenient. Requires some selfcontrol though - for example, those who are bipolar are not enjoying this.

brianarudolph
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Re: Sweden Going Cashless

Postby brianarudolph » December 27th, 2015, 10:17 pm

Tom Stone wrote:Or, without explanation, prevent swedish customers from buying swedish sextoys from swedish webshops, because those things are considered "obscene" in the US.


Hmmm ... not sure if this is a case of too much information or not enough. :oops: :lol:

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Tom Stone
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Re: Sweden Going Cashless

Postby Tom Stone » December 27th, 2015, 10:30 pm

brianarudolph wrote:
Tom Stone wrote:Or, without explanation, prevent swedish customers from buying swedish sextoys from swedish webshops, because those things are considered "obscene" in the US.


Hmmm ... not sure if this is a case of too much information or not enough. :oops: :lol:

You probably need google or bing translate for this:
http://www.affarsvarlden.se/hem/article3580475.ece
http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.as ... el=5342399

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erdnasephile
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Re: Sweden Going Cashless

Postby erdnasephile » December 27th, 2015, 10:40 pm

Interesting article, PT.

I'm definitely in the minority in that I like paying cash whenever I can. I find it far too easy to break my budget if I rely on credit cards exclusively. Plus, it's nice to be able to just plunk down some cash and walk out of a restaurant without having to wait for busy servers to swipe my card.

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lybrary
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Re: Sweden Going Cashless

Postby lybrary » December 28th, 2015, 8:16 am

Very interesting. A big boon for banks and card companies because it means that every little transaction will now generate fees. I wonder if bitcoins are popular in Sweden.
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erdnasephile
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Re: Sweden Going Cashless

Postby erdnasephile » December 28th, 2015, 8:54 am

lybrary wrote:Very interesting. A big boon for banks and card companies because it means that every little transaction will now generate fees. I wonder if bitcoins are popular in Sweden.


That's a good point, Chris.
One thing I do like about the European/Asian card system is how they have had the chip/PIN system for years.

P.T.Widdle
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Re: Sweden Going Cashless

Postby P.T.Widdle » December 28th, 2015, 8:58 am

What about the affect on magic, Tom? I imagine it's impractical to attempt to perform tricks with borrowed bills or coins anymore.

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Re: Sweden Going Cashless

Postby Leonard Hevia » December 28th, 2015, 10:22 am

P.T.Widdle wrote:What about the affect on magic, Tom? I imagine it's impractical to attempt to perform tricks with borrowed bills or coins anymore.


If I was Tom I would consider the elimination of coins and paper money in his country an asset and not a liability:

1. Coins are seldom borrowed in coin magic so this shouldn't be affected. Swedish magicians will do fine since I suspect that they perform coins thru the table, coins across, and transpositions with their own coins anyway as other magicians do all over the world.

2. Magic with paper money won't be affected much because the magi can still perform penetrations, changes, and transpositions with his own bills. They can be handed out for examination should the situation require this.

3. The elimination of coins and paper money can add to the presentational possibilities. The magi can introduce the coins or bills and explain that they were taken out of circulation because of inherent molecular instability. He can then segue into his routine with the coins or paper money.

4. Magic is an archaic art. If anyone in the audience perceives coins and paper money as old relics, so much the better. The is in keeping with the spirit of what magic is all about.

Brad Henderson
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Re: Sweden Going Cashless

Postby Brad Henderson » December 28th, 2015, 10:40 am

many would disagree that the impact of magic is enhanced through the use of archaic objects. There is a different feelingful response had by an audience when seeing something extraordinary done with something ordinary, and seeing something extraordinary performed with something extraordinary. There is a reason lay people remember and speak years later of magic done with 'their ring' or 'their $100 bill'.

I likewise imagine that magic performed with a change bag was much more impressive to people who saw these objects taking collection at church each sunday and associated them with the commonplace than for those who have only ever seen them used by magicians at children's magic shows.

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erdnasephile
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Re: Sweden Going Cashless

Postby erdnasephile » December 28th, 2015, 11:01 am

P.T.Widdle wrote:What about the affect on magic, Tom? I imagine it's impractical to attempt to perform tricks with borrowed bills or coins anymore.


Given that Mr. Stone's remarkable books, Vortex and Maelstrom, contain only one effect that might be able to be done with a borrowed coin (and no bill tricks), I reckon Tom's amazing creativity would serve him in good stead in a cashless society.

However, PT, your point is very well-taken, as the less-gifted may not fare as well.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Sweden Going Cashless

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 28th, 2015, 11:45 am

I've never visited an Internet sex shop, but I can't imagine that a credit card company would turn down money for any items purchased from a legitimate business.
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Brad Henderson
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Re: Sweden Going Cashless

Postby Brad Henderson » December 28th, 2015, 12:20 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:I've never visited an Internet sex shop, but I can't imagine that a credit card company would turn down money for any items purchased from a legitimate business.


They don't, though the shop may be unwilling to ship to texas . . . er, em, so I've been told.

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Bill Marquardt
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Re: Sweden Going Cashless

Postby Bill Marquardt » December 28th, 2015, 1:08 pm

If I understand the Google translation of the first article cited, it has more to do with MasterCard and Visa trying to avoid violating "international banking agreements" rather than forcing their own (or American, if you choose) morals upon the Swedish people.

America consistently and proudly displays its lack of moral standards to the whole world. Just watch television at night.

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Tom Stone
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Re: Sweden Going Cashless

Postby Tom Stone » December 28th, 2015, 1:23 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:I've never visited an Internet sex shop, but I can't imagine that a credit card company would turn down money for any items purchased from a legitimate business.

Not only webshops, but actual stores for walk-in customers as well. All sorts of small stores have been forced out of business by the credit card companies' morality rules, despite being 100% legitimate, legal and unremarkable. The horror & cult film store "Skräckfilmsbutiken" offered movies that were almost impossible to find elsewhere, and it seems the main reason they were forced out of business was that they sold the movie "Anita" with the actors Christina Lindberg (known from "They Call Her One Eye") and Stellan Skarsgård ("The Hunt for Red October", "Good Will Hunting", "Nymphomaniac"). A pretty average 70's sexploatation flick. The sextoy shop justinejuliette.se is another place that got their payments blocked for almost a year, and almost went bankrupt.
So, while it is very practical to be cashless, it is also very unnerving to be in the claws of US antidemocratic companies that answers to no one.

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Tom Stone
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Re: Sweden Going Cashless

Postby Tom Stone » December 28th, 2015, 1:37 pm

Bill Marquardt wrote:If I understand the Google translation of the first article cited, it has more to do with MasterCard and Visa trying to avoid violating "international banking agreements" rather than forcing their own (or American, if you choose) morals upon the Swedish people.

No, it's the opposite. In the cited example, all payment solutions was cancelled, in accordance to rules introduced and enforced by MasterCard and Visa. These rules are a part of their "international banking agreements", and for some reason they've added ethical concerns of a kind that makes absolutely no sense outside Beaumont Texas in those agreements.

MagicbyAlfred
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Re: Sweden Going Cashless

Postby MagicbyAlfred » December 28th, 2015, 3:14 pm

Tom wrote: "And I don't like that US credit card companies have got such large influence here, as they force stupid US morality and doublestandards upon us."

The words, "morality," and "US credit card companies," don't belong in the same sentence together. It's hard to imagine any person or entity that exemplifies immorality more than U.S. credit card companies (i.e. large banks). It is considered usury, a criminal offense in most every state to charge interest exceeding 10% on transactions. Under California law, for example, where 10% is the ceiling, it is actually a felony for a lender to "willfully" charge more than 10% interest. But guess who's exempt from these laws? Right. Banks that issue credit cards. I would say that is immoral, and the government obviously shares the guilt with the banks for letting them get away with it - you might say partners in "legal" crime. But I imagine the government reaps big tax revenues from the ill gotten gains of the banks (and then goes and squanders the money on yet another stupid war, leaving things far worse than they were before the intervention, and hard-working taxpayers to foot the bill). According to CNBC, America's current outstanding credit card debt is approximately $900 billion, with the average household's balance being $7,813. At interest rates of up to 25% per year, and many families and individuals unable to pay more than the minimum balance due each month, many will never get out from under this debt for the rest of their lives, and will just keep paying interest while never even making a dent in the principal amount borrowed. Now that's obscene.

Joe Mckay
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Re: Sweden Going Cashless

Postby Joe Mckay » December 28th, 2015, 3:49 pm

Tom? There are companies like Epoch.com who will act as a payment agent for the porn industry.

So - you use your credit card to pay for porn. But the payment goes via Epoch.com - and that sidesteps any moral issues the major credit card companies may have.

I hope no company went bust because they didn't consider such a simple remedy.

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Tom Stone
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Re: Sweden Going Cashless

Postby Tom Stone » December 28th, 2015, 4:10 pm

Joe Mckay wrote:Tom? There are companies like Epoch.com who will act as a payment agent for the porn industry.

So - you use your credit card to pay for porn. But the payment goes via Epoch.com - and that sidesteps any moral issues the major credit card companies may have.

I hope no company went bust because they didn't consider such a simple remedy.

Can a credit card chip reader be hooked up to a intermediary agent like that?
I don't think it's a valid option though - why should one business be forced to pay extra and appear needlessly shady, when it isn't required of the store next door? When it isn't required of Amazon, even when they sell the same items...

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Brad Jeffers
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Re: Sweden Going Cashless

Postby Brad Jeffers » December 28th, 2015, 4:14 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:I've never visited an Internet sex shop

I commend you Richard, for supporting your local brick and mortar shop.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Sweden Going Cashless

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 28th, 2015, 4:23 pm

... or a brick and mortar sex shop, either. (Guess I had to add that.) :)
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Joe Mckay
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Re: Sweden Going Cashless

Postby Joe Mckay » December 28th, 2015, 4:33 pm

Tom - I have only seen Epoch.com used on websites.

Not sure if there is a way to use it in an ordinary brick and mortar shop since 99.99% of porn is sold online.

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Re: Sweden Going Cashless

Postby observer » December 28th, 2015, 4:55 pm

This "moral standards" foofaraw is an excellent example of why "going cashless" is Not A Good Thing.

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Tom Stone
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Re: Sweden Going Cashless

Postby Tom Stone » December 28th, 2015, 5:24 pm

Joe Mckay wrote:Not sure if there is a way to use it in an ordinary brick and mortar shop since 99.99% of porn is sold online.

Never seen porn in a sextoy shop, so I'm not sure your statistics are valid. For example, I've never bought toys online. I've always went with the person I've currently been dating to an actual shop, to be able to handle and compare the various gadgets. I think that is what most people prefer to do, rather than buying a pig in a poke online.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Sweden Going Cashless

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 28th, 2015, 5:41 pm

hahaha: "a pig in a poke"!

I suggest that this discussion return to the possible effect of this subject of magic or we'll be done here.
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Bob Farmer
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Re: Sweden Going Cashless

Postby Bob Farmer » December 28th, 2015, 6:49 pm

Here in Canada, we don't use currency. Commerce is effected by personal IOUs, trading bear skins and lying. We used to have something called the "Canadian dollar" but most of those have been used for insulating our cabins.


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