Magic in BoingBoing

[P.T.Widdle]

A long profile of Aiden Sinclair (of AGT fame), via Boing Boing:

http://boingboing.net/2015/10/13/a-con- ... lf-as.html

[P.T.Widdle]

Not listed under the Magic section, but I thought these were interesting. I never knew about them. Anyone use these?

Coins Carved to Reveal Skulls Under The Faces
http://boingboing.net/2015/10/16/coins- ... kulls.html

[Bill Mullins]

Richard Kaufman tells Boingboing how he and Kurt Russell spent my 20th birthday.

Great post, Richard.

[Richard Kaufman]

Thanks Bill. It was a crazy night!

[P.T.Widdle]

That's cool you saw the cut ending to The Shining in the theater!

The hotel manager was in on it.

[Richard Kaufman]

Yes, Barry Nelson.

[Bill Mullins]

Have you seen "Room 237"? Any thoughts?

[Richard Kaufman]

Never saw it. I actually dislike the movie of The Shining quite a bit. Great book ... lousy film. Jack Nicholson and Shelly Duval are one-note from near the beginning and after two hours of that it's just tiring for very little payoff.

[Tom Frame]

The Thing is one of my favorite horror films. It is truly “a thing of terrifying beauty.”

In 2010, Peter Watts wrote a terrific short story called The Things. In 2011, it was nominated for the Hugo Award and the Theodore Sturgeon Award. It tells the tale from the creature’s point of view!

The story is a fine complement to the film. After reading it, when you next watch the film, your viewing experience is greatly enhanced because you know what the creature is thinking and feeling throughout the film.

Read it and then watch the brilliant movie.

http://clarkesworldmagazine.com/watts_01_10/

[Jonathan Townsend]

Who Goes There? is a pretty good story even with the long exposition. Peter Watts' followup is a pretty good answer to that question even with his choice of words in the last sentence.

[Richard Kaufman]

After reading it, when you next watch the film, your viewing experience is greatly enhanced because you know what the creature is thinking and feeling throughout the film.

Tom, the story is interesting, but you give the author too much credit. You do not know what the creature is thinking and feeling, only what the author of the short story surmises the creature is thinking and feeling.

And I don't necessarily buy the fact that Childs and/or Copper are infected.

[Jonathan Townsend]

One could well take the position that to know what's subjective for a movie character one would have to refer to the editor/auteur/director/writer - and still no guarantee they were aware of what they wished to have as real for the character. The actor could tell you some things about the performance which made it into the film but it's the author of the film who has the choice about what's supposed to be there or not for their intended audience.

So far so good up until one introduces the unreliable narrator. Let's look at but not spoil "The Usual Suspects". Consider the tale as told by Kint to Kujan about Keyser Soze in the notes from that long interview... found later... after which Kint is gone and maybe Kujan too. Is "The Thing" the tabloid version of what happened during "Ice Station Zebra"?

The story "The Things" is here: http://clarkesworldmagazine.com/watts_01_10/
and some about the author here: http://www.rifters.com/crawl/

[P.T.Widdle]

Kudos to Richard Kaufman and BB for promoting "Our Magic" on BB's website. The film is sure to attract plenty of additional viewers because of it.

http://boingboing.net/2015/11/11/66-dis ... ing-r.html

It seems like Richard started posting at BoingBoing shortly after this thread was created. Coincidence?

[Richard Kaufman]

Nothing to do with this thread.

[P.T.Widdle]

Houdini at 52

http://boingboing.net/2015/11/17/eerie- ... of-ha.html

[P.T.Widdle]

The Wallet That Does Nothing

http://boingboing.net/2015/11/19/the-wa ... thing.html

This is the first piece by Richard for BoingBoing that I felt was a little lacking. Or rather, there was too much of the Hammacher Schlemmer stuff before finally getting to the wallet (IMHO). And why not a link to an actual magic wallet at the end?

[Richard Kaufman]

There was no link to a real magic wallet because the site is read by laymen, not people looking to actually buy a magic prop.

[P.T.Widdle]

I'm surprised to hear you say that. The post is categorized under "Magic," where there have been links to magic props all the time (for laymen or not).

[Richard Kaufman]

But not by me.

[P.T.Widdle]

Richard, based on your past and present comments on this thread, I'm a little confused as to what purpose you think BoingBoing serves in relation to magic.

You say the site is read only by laymen, "not people looking to actually buy a magic prop." This would infer that you believe the site should only showcase magic performances (and maybe some ancillary history for context), so that laymen can be entertained and hopefully gain a better appreciation for the art.

Yet, you also stated,"People, mostly kids, become interested in magic by being exposed to it in some way. Someone sends you a trick, book, or magic set as a gift; you see magic on TV; and now the exposure to magic will likely come through the internet as is the case here."

This would infer that BoingBoing is also a place where one could gain entre to begin to pursue performing magic, most likely as a hobby. If that's the case, then posts about simple magic props (the Ghost Key, Tenyo tricks), that people can buy would be justified, not to mention posts on magic books (Joshua Jay, Roberto Giobbi, Simon Lovell).

So while I understand that you maybe wouldn't want to tip off laymen as to the existence of magic wallets, I wouldn't think (based on your previous comments) that you would be opposed to BoingBoing being a place where people could buy a magic prop or book from time to time. As you said, "we really need more people interested in magic."

[Brad Henderson]

because not all exposure to magic is likely to lead to an actual involvement in magic.

or else every exposure to magic would lead to an involvement in magic.

and clearly, it doesn't.

[performer]

There are quite enough bad magicians as it is. And there is quite enough exposure on the internet as it is. And I can assure you that they are both connected and that one feeds the other. After all I am psychic and know these things.

[P.T.Widdle]

Just to be clear, Brad (and welcome back, by the way), we are not talking about "exposure" in the reveal-the-secret sense, right? That's a different discussion (well-covered in this thread).

Rather, we are talking about exposure to magic as in posts of performances of magic, small tricks to buy, magic history (Richard's recent post on the Houdini sculpture, for example), and books on magic.

Are we making a demarkation line of some sort, whereby exposure to magic performances should be in a different place than exposure to learning magic? Can they not co-exist peacefully in the same place?

[Brad Henderson]

I was talking with a magic fan who was in attendance at a magic lecture last night. He expressed concern that learning magic would take away the feeling of amazement that attracted him to magic all these years.

We discussed how some knowledge can expose you to better performers, and help one develop more refined taste in magic and an understanding of what makes some magic 'better' than others - but yea, that learning magic often puts one further away from the feelings that one was hoping to get closer to through learning more.

Clearly then what we know impact how we feel about what we see. And while some knowledge can increase the depth or intensity of those feelings in a positive manner - the sword cuts both ways.

If someone really wants to find a magic prop one need merely enter a few key strokes. I don't see any value in reminding people that magic props can be at work in the mysteries they witness, let alone how much they cost.

Sure, people 'know' magic props my be in play - but i don't see what one would gain, say, from linking to a class on Meisner in the middle or immediately after the showing of a profound award winning dramatic performance.

Let the magic breathe.

Let the moment resonate.

if they want to enter the profession, they will.

[P.T.Widdle]

If someone really wants to find a magic prop one need merely enter a few key strokes.
...if they want to enter the profession, they will.

What about entering the hobby of magic? Serendipity plays a huge part in that. And so do small magic props. A post about the Ghost Key (with a link to buy it) on a website catering to alternative popular culture could prove the catalyst to an interest in magic for someone just browsing. Many of us on this forum discovered magic through serendipity and small props.

And what's nice about BoingBoing is that the magic is curated, so to speak, so people are getting exposure to it through editors with an interest in it already, even if it's not their primary interest.

I'm not sure how one would stumble upon Vanishing Inc. or Penguin Magic, and even if they did, I think it would prove a little intimidating. A small miracle that one can attempt to perform, discovered on a website one already peruses for interesting things, is a wonderful serendipitous thing.

[P.T.Widdle]

A Richard Kaufman post about "Q"

http://boingboing.net/2015/12/01/the-fi ... inema.html

"The (Los Angeles Conference on Magic History) is put on bi-annually by Jim Steinmeyer, Frankie Glass, Mike Caveney, and John Gaughan (names you likely don’t know but should)..."

Some magicians on this board might question why Richard would proclaim that the above-named persons are people that BoingBoing readers should know. I'm not one of them.

[Dustin Stinett]

Neither am I. I wonder how many Google searches Richard's post generated?

[Richard Kaufman]

Boing Boing

[Brad Henderson]

again, Widdle. you have yet to establish what good, if any, comes from people entering the hobby of magic. You have also yet to establish that seeing that props can be bought will accomplish your goal of getting them involved.

why are you so invested in magic evangelism?

[Jonathan Townsend]

...you have yet to establish what good, if any,...

See Aristotle on ethics.

Thanks for the Q story, Richard. From Houdini's Q to Rossum's Robots to Alistair Reynolds tale Zima Blue it's an interesting progression of opinion.

Adam Christopher's Made to Kill (noir with a robot) recently touched on similar themes.

[P.T.Widdle]

again, Widdle. you have yet to establish what good, if any, comes from people entering the hobby of magic.

I presume you mean what good comes to those already in the hobby or profession of magic. I'm not really concerned about them. They'll be fine either way.

why are you so invested in magic evangelism?

Because magic brings joy. Joy to the people seeing it, and joy to those performing it.

[Brad Henderson]

actually, I was asking what good comes to magic (the art) from more people participating. Magic is bigger than those who play with it. Perhaps you are too self involved to see it that way.

and does learning magic bring joy? for me it has brought pain, and frustration and anxiety and angst. I think of all the wives and families that come to despise magic and how it has affected their lives.

And let's not forget the great irony that is the more one learns about magic, the harder it comes to have those feelings which likely inspired you to try to learn it in the first place.

again, I think you have made up your mind based on your own self interests and are unwllling or incapable of seeing anything beyond your own narrow field of vision.

[Jonathan Townsend]

First - sorry to read about pain from our craft. ouch. We have enough problems going on already. Okay back to our regularly scheduled diversion:

actually, I was asking what good comes to magic (the art) ...

Magic, the market, values product in dollars. magic, the art? Was that a Spaceballs reference? The blue duck Dilbert episode as card trick?

Rhetoric is to persuasion as magic is to results. if you can identify the rhetorical methods you are not feeling persuaded. if you can see how it was done you are not feeling the magic.

it's not impossible to learn. it's also in my latest ebook available at...

[P.T.Widdle]

for me (magic) has brought pain, and frustration and anxiety and angst.

Ouch. Buzzkill, man. Sorry to hear that. Are your bookings down? I imagine what you are really talking about is the business of professional magic. When your art/hobby turns pro, that can happen to some, especially to those who haven't "made it," so to speak. Try not to be bitter.

I think of all the wives and families that come to despise magic and how it has affected their lives.

Your wives? Who's wives? Again, you are probably talking about professionals, so yes, that can happen to entertainers' families (Vernon included, of course). And maybe the wives of some serious collectors, I don't know.

But for most people who consider magic a hobby, I don't think their wives/husbands "despise" the craft - put up with it, maybe

[Brad Henderson]

typing from the Renaissance hotel in Birmingham. Show tomorrow. My anxiety comes not from shows - you don't have be to good to book a show - my anxiety comes from the desire to be good. To that end my journey in magic has been filled with disappointment, obstacles, self loathing, and pain.

I have heard from some people that they do magic because it's 'fun'.

I have seen some of these people perform.

if that's what it means to enjoy magic, I want no part of it.

and I personally know scores of wives and girlfriends of magicians of all stripes and levels of involvement who feel magic has wrecked their relationships or causes stress in other ways.

again, you need to realize that YOUR experience is not EVERYONE'S experience.

So tell me, why is it good for magic to have more people thinking they are magicians? you haven't ever answered that.

[MagicbyAlfred]

Brad, I "feel" what you are saying. I think this is the spiritual element of magic; in essence magic is self discovery. That, in turn, involves learning to transcend our fears and insecurities that somehow we will not be"'good enough." So letting go of those worries and fears; developing a mindset that this is carefree and joyful translates to the audience as a transcendent experience for them, and for us as performers. Anxiety is just a dirty trick of the conditioned mind. It is the triumph over the little voice that says '"you are not good enough" that results in conquering stress and anxiety and in us being all we can be - in magic and in every aspect of life.. We can always improve, and should continually strive to do so, but we must learn to be comfortable and relaxed with where we are right now. When we can let go of and conquer that part of ourselves that is the tyrant, that is conditioned to judge and persecute ourselves, it is then that we become one with ourselves, break out as true entertainers, and move, uplift and inspire all with whom we come in contact. In the end, we must remember it is all about them, not us. When we are sincere, truly let go, relax, and are having fun, the audience will feel it, love it, and reward us beyond measure. When we believe in ourselves they will believe in us. The sky's the limit.

[performer]

I agree with Brad that there are far too many people doing magic or wanting to do magic, particularly nowadays, and it makes me cringe. At this rate there will be no laymen left. I wish it were a bit more exclusive, not perhaps as much as it was in the 19th century, but a bit more like it was in the 20th century. I far prefer things the way they used to me where you had to make a bit of an effort to find the information.

On the other hand you don't want to drive yourself too crazy with this stuff. I have always taken magic very seriously indeed as anyone who knows me will attest. However, a number of decades ago Harry Stanley, the famed British magic dealer said to me, "You are taking magic far too seriously" I snorted back, "Of course I take it seriously. How can you ever be any good if you don't take it seriously?" His response was, "You should take what you do seriously but that's it. Be serious about doing your act well but leave it at that" In other words don't drive yourself nuts with it.

I remember once a chance remark made to me by Ron Conley years and years ago. He said, "Magic should be fun". I agree with that. The trouble is that when money enters the picture the fun tends to go out of it. Unlike many professionals I don't look down on amateurs. In fact I envy them, incompetent as most of them are. They get so much fun out of magic and enjoy it tremendously. They are still as useless as ever but they contribute a great deal to the art from a creative point of view. Think about it. Vernon was essentially an amateur magician. He took his enthusiasm to an extreme but he certainly enjoyed the magic. And he was actually a good perfomer for laymen despite the myth that he wasn't. A reluctant performer perhaps but a very good one indeed.

By and large it is a wonderful hobby, perhaps the greatest in the world. But you can drive yourself nuts with it and that is not a good thing. I can sense Brad may be doing what Harry Stanley told me not to do. "Don't take it so seriously" he said. You do need a balance.

I have heard it advised that it can be a very good thing for someone to take a complete break from magic for a short time. Or even a year or so. You come back with a fresh enthusiasm and a fresh perspective. Maybe this is what Brad needs. Of course it can be easier said than done and I do not practice what I preach. I have never done this. I just can't. I probably should. But I do try to distract myself with other things and try to take a break from it occasionally. Of course "try" is the operative word and I am not terribly successful in the attempt. Still, at least I am aware that I should and that helps a lot.

However, I think I can advise on how not to take the PERFORMANCE of magic too seriously. What I will say will sound contradictory and a little schizophrenic. I am saying that you can take the performance of magic seriously by NOT taking it too seriously. And oddly enough by doing so your magic and your audience reaction will improve as a result. I think what I say may possibly be very useful to Brad but it will take up a fair bit of space to explain it and this post is long enough already. I shall therefore take a deep breath, have a rest (see? I am doing what I suggested above!) and return to explain what I am getting at.

Using my usual technique I will only do so if someone asks me to. I don't like spouting if nobody is listening.

[P.T.Widdle]

why is it good for magic to have more people thinking they are magicians?

The way you ask that question seems a bit condescending to magic hobbyists. What you mean, I suppose, is that you don't like more people performing magic for money (calling themselves magicians), who are not good at it. Fair enough.

But do you also mean hobbyists who perform (poorly or not) tricks now and then? Are you saying that the more these people perform tricks to laymen, the more diluted the craft becomes? I really wouldn't sweat that one. Music has millions of hobbyists, but there is still beautiful music being created by talented people.

And the wonderful thing is, you never know who the next talented magician will come from. It could be the kid who received a magic set from Costgo, or a saw an episode of Fool Us, or bought a deck of cards from a link in BoingBoing.

Why limit the possibilities of discovery for potential talent?

[Bill Mullins]

I'm not sure the argument is framed in a meaningful way. "Magic" isn't some entity that things can be good, or bad, for. There are people who associate themselves with magic, and new people entering the field can be good or bad for them. If you publish a magazine, new magicians is good. If you are the only birthday party magician in a medium sized town, a second one showing up can be devastating. If you do a show, an enthusiast in the audience can be good or bad depending on their attitudes and demeanor.

So to tie this back to the thread, reframe the question. Boingboing exposes (I use that word with positive and negative connotations) people to magic -- demos of effects, instructions on how to build props, reports of conventions, etc. Most of them are neutral to me in my place in the magic world. Some of them offend my sensibilities (explanations of tricks, selling tricks in ways that present magic as a commodity, or define the performance as ownership of a gimmick), but that is a personal reaction, and I don't presume to say that other people should have the same reaction. Some of them are good, in that they agree with my interests, and promote things that I think should be promoted. The recent post about the Houdini robot at the LA Magic History Conference, for example, is a respectful piece that is in line with what I enjoy about the hobby/craft/art of magic.

Mostly, I agree with the conclusion that Brad's arguments lead to -- that the benefits of exposing magic in a widely read, low-barrier-of-entry, blog, are undefined and possibly nonexistent. But each example should be examined on its own, and recognized as being good for some, and bad for others.

[Jonathan Townsend]

... Why limit the possibilities of discovery for potential talent?

There are no barriers to entry in this craft. The suggested limitation is restraint in attempts to publicly proselytize a fraudulent belief that clever=magical.

Do you wish to argue that a set of tiny plastic cups and sponge wisps is a lure to invest in a set of Fox cups? A plastic toy is a "gateway" item to expensive crafted apparatus? talent=customer?

talent finds its own way.