The Genii Forum

I came here to offer help to the Vernon freaks. None of you asked a significant question.

Here's a general question.

Aside from the second part of the David Ben penned Vernon biography, are there there any other official Vernon related projects we can look forward to seeing in the future?

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www.conjurenation.com - 'Cards only' Forums

Here is something I've been wondering.
In an article many years ago Ricky Jay is quoted as being disappointed in Vernon releasing his material to "The Unwashed." (I believe this is the phrase that Jay used.)
The Ben biography mentions a few times where Vernon released material in order to make money, so I was wondering were the later books (The Inner card trilogy etc.) a money making venture, or a way of laying claim to his routines, or just a way to make sure his idea's were available for posterity's sake?

Thanks in advance.

Gord

Originally posted by Vernon's son:
I came here to offer help to the Vernon freaks. None of you asked a significant question.

Did your father happen to tell you when he first saw a magician do a trick and had the feeling that magic was something special? If so would you tell us that story?

I for one would be interested in any stories you'd care to share. The recollections you and your brother provided in the Spirit of Magic documentary provided a glimpse of the real man behind the legend.

In curious as to that which you as Vernon's son would want us to know about him that is most important for you in your heart of hearts.
Respectfully asked.
Californialaw

I would like to dispel the idea the idea that he was not a loving husband and parent. He was: it was just that he loved magic more.

Aside from the second part of the David Ben penned Vernon biography, are there there any other official Vernon related projects we can look forward to seeing in the future?


The prolific David Ben has something related to "Revelations" in the works.

Gord:

To answer your question I would have to say that most of the later publications were done because his friends and acolytes indsisted they be done and often led him by the hand into writing them.

I appreciate you dispelling the notion that your Dad wasn't a loving parent. The "Spirit of Magic" documentary made me have more compassion for the family than Vernon-the-man. It colored how I view him. What you say makes a difference in clearing that up a bit.

I used to play with Joady Guthrie, back when he was still performing. He said his Dad ( Woody) loved them all but loved the music a tad more. It wasn't always fun for the family. His work did get out and reach people though, it had a real effect.

I guess it works that way for some genius originals, those whose work makes a huge impact in the world.


My best to you,
Tim

I understand that Beethoven was not a fun guy and that Einstein was not always faithful to his wife. Would you rather be related to a jerk who performed as expected or someone who burnt new trails in the firmament of his chosen field?

At the final New York Magic Symposium in 1987 in New York, where Dai Vernon was the honored guest, I met his grandson--Derek's son (who lived in New Jersey at the time, I think). I said something along the lines of, "It must be wonderful to be Dai Vernon's grandson." To which he replied, "I wouldn't know, this is only the second time I've met him."

This was both eye opening and sad.

Originally posted by Vernon's son:
Would you rather be related to a jerk who performed as expected or someone who burnt new trails in the firmament of his chosen field?

Are those the only choices? If we could pick our parents, I'd choose ones who were not jerks, independent of accomplishments, which don't matter much to a kid...

Originally posted by Vernon's son:
Would you rather be related to a jerk who performed as expected or someone who burnt new trails in the firmament of his chosen field?

An interesting question. I think that most people don't really know their own answer - unless they've experienced it, they can only surmise what it'd be like.

But it's a thought-provoking question - thank you for it, it's made me think.

Dave

Derek (it's Derek, yes?), may I ask about your memories of the other magicians around your father, especially the NY Inner Circle bunch? Baker, Horowitz, etc? I guess I'm asking: how do you remember your father's friends?

Your question is far too broad. If you are asking me whom I was most impressed with in those golden days I would have to say it was Slydini. I saw the best including the Bambergs and Cardini but Tony Slydini impressed me the most.

I'm interested in the person.

To me at least, Shelly's poem comes to mind suggesting that even blazing accomplishments in the firmament point to little more than an icon where a person once stood.

What we have left when we're gone is how we are remembered by people, as a person. These are comparatively small things like a smile or a decision or a few kinds words that folks may recall if we're lucky.

Your post has made me think about those "golden years". I insist (and I have told David Ben that) those whom our family loved were Dr. Daley,Garrick Spencer, Sam Margulies, and Fancis Carlyle.

Dear Mr. Verner:

In the New York Times (August 8, 1999) the danseur Mikhail Baryshnikov said, "Someone said, people in art shouldn't have children. I agree we are selfish animals. Stanislavski said art needs sacrifice. Yes, but the sacrifice falls on the shoulders of spouses, lovers and everyone around. But the artist doesn't feel that way."

As a magician I am truly grateful for the enormous intellectual contribution your father gave to our art. The fact that his passion for magic came at a great personal cost to you and your family saddens me. But, I want you to know that the gratitude I feel for your father certainly extends to everyone in your family who made great sacrifices.

Sincerely,
Levent

those whom our family loved were Dr. Daley, Garrick Spencer, Sam Margulies, and Fancis Carlyle.

Yes, thank you, that's very much what I was trying to ask about. Would you care to share any memories or stories about any of them interacting with you or your family, as people more than as magicians?

Derek, Dr. Daley is an enigmatic figure in our field. We know he was a plastic surgeon at French Hospital, and that he was close friends with Vernon, but much of his material was never published in finished form and we don't know a lot about the guy, how he handled cards, and what kind of a person he was.
Can you tell us a bit about Daley?

Dr. Daley was as close a friend of my mother as he was of my father, together they colaberated on several articles in medical journals and even Reader's Digest on non-magic topics.

Francis Carlyle did nothing for the family other than bringing some candy bars to us (we?) kids. We loved him because he was a mensch. Do any of you know he had an identical twin named Mathew who committed suicide?

Originally posted by Vernon's son:
Dr. Daley was as close a friend of my mother as he was of my father, together they colaberated on several articles in medical journals and even Reader's Digest on non-magic topics.

Would you tell us a little about the guy? Was he a frequent visitor at your home for dinner?

Here's something else I've been wondering since I read Ben's book.

He says your Mother wrote a book about her life with your Father. Will we ever see this work either in full or in part?

Thanks in advance.

Gord

I'm awestruck right now, too afraid to ask any questions. I wish I could sit down with you at Starbucks and talk over coffee...but I'd like to see David Ben produce a nice coffee table book of Vernon's memorabilia. Beautiful color photos of his Kit Kat Club Cups and Balls, the Iranian Cups and so on.

Your father gave magic so much dignity, beauty, and devious methods...I'm eternally grateful.

Gord:

My mother's book "I married Mr. Magic" - "Laughter is My Only Shield" and "Down the Rabbit Hole' (you pick the best title) was never published because it was thought to be too cruel and would not play to the many who thought Dai Vernon was some kind of god.

David Ben (that devil) managed to get access to the manuscript of her book from my brother. I have never even seen the complete version. His quotes in the biography are as much as I know about the manuscript.

Al Baker taught me a great deal about ventriloquism I remember Shari Lewis as a fellow student. I did a magic and vent show until I started to make money at it. Then my mother put the kibosh on the whole deal.

Early photos show Dai Vernon as a hockey player, and later ones of him attending a baseball game with Charlie Miller. Did he encourage you in sports?

He also told me that one of his sons came up with the name "Triumph" for his seminal card shuffling routine. Do you recall that bit of history?

Al Baker taught me a great deal about ventriloquism I remember Shari Lewis as a fellow student. I did a magic and vent show[...]

Had Shari developed Lambchop at that point, or was she working with a different character? What vent characters did Al Baker use? Who was your vent character? What were your favorite elements from your magic and vent show?

Richard
Do you think you could give good Mr. Verner here a column? His personal history would be an excellent read.

Gord

Hey guys - calm down. I only came here to correct the nonsense that was being posted about my dad. No one paid any attention to my early posts. Now you are getting rabid. What made the change?

Here is a story that has never seen print. My father called me to visit Francis Carlyle at Bellevue Hospital where he had been picked up lying in a gutter with a friend whose face had been eaten off by rats. I went, expecting the worst, only to see Francis at the top of his form. All the nurses loved him and he managed to charm the entire staff. Francis was someone you just had to love.

As long as I am talking about Francis Carlyle it may be of interest that Frankie Finneran picked his name from the novel "Nightmare Alley". You may have seen this as a movie starring Tyrone Power.

I'm curious how your dad decided to 'create' the Fitbin Drop move. He had such a good sense of humor and this was alot like the Berg move.

Originally posted by Gord Gardiner:
Here is something I've been wondering.
In an article many years ago Ricky Jay is quoted as being disappointed in Vernon releasing his material to "The Unwashed." (I believe this is the phrase that Jay used.)

Gord

Hey Gord,

In defense of Mr. Jay (though he might feel the same way)
it was actually Persi Diaconis who said that.

Tim

It makes me feel very good that Persi and Ricky both found something ineresting about the professor.

Ive read occasionally about Mr. Vernon playing the piano quite well, but this was never addressed in any detail. He approached magic as an art - I would imagine his approach to playing music was held to his same high standards in all of the arts he was involved with. Could you comment on his level of playing piano and what music(s) he was particularly fond of?

Originally posted by Vernon's son:
I only came here to correct the nonsense that was being posted about my dad.

Could you give us some examples and corrections?