The Genii Forum

He suffered from stagefright I understand

Jonathan Townsend wrote:Perhaps someday we'll know enough about Nate Leipzig to appreciate who he was and how he treated audiences as well.

El Mystico wrote:Hi David;

I thought I'd made it clear that I was not criticising Glenn for not sharing my high regard for Vernon - that would be dumb.

El Mystico wrote:
My issue was that Glenn said that other magicians had moved magic forward more than Vernon; when I questioned this, his reply was "Are you trying to say that Vernon was the "only" magician that moved magic or close up magic forward? Single handed?"

El Mystico wrote:"Are you trying to say that Vernon was the "only" magician that moved magic or close up magic forward? Single handed?" This was not what I said, not what I meant, not what I wrote on several occasions.

El Mystico wrote:Of course Glenn is entitled to his opinion of Vernon.

El Mystico wrote:My comment was on his ability to engage in discussion. I don't think I need to be a professional magician to do this.

Glenn Bishop wrote:

El Mystico wrote:

El Mystico wrote:"Are you trying to say that Vernon was the "only" magician that moved magic or close up magic forward? Single handed?" This was not what I said, not what I meant, not what I wrote on several occasions.

Yes - I asked this question that you have not answered yet.

000 wrote:Icons may be icons, but, if one, like Tommy Cooper, resorts to wife beating, then youve 'crossed the line' as far as Im concerned, and youre just an [censored]. Strange how the demon drink often has a role to play.

000 wrote:Did the professor perform the invisible deck often? (or did he prefer sleight of hand)

El Mystico wrote:(Holden says "I consider Vernon the greatest man with a pack of cards of the present day". - Interesting in the light of the debate on these pages)

Richard Kaufman wrote: Vernon thought Houdini was an arrogant jerk, and a great escape artist, but a lousy magician. He stated this many times.

...What does concern us, and will forever be important to anyone who picks up a deck of cards as a magician, is how deeply embedded his thinking is in the essential nature of the way all of us handle playing cards.

Richard Kaufman wrote:Frankly, it is of little concern to us today whether Vernon was a skillful stage or close-up performer in terms of presentation. What does concern us, and will forever be important to anyone who picks up a deck of cards as a magician, is how deeply embedded his thinking is in the essential nature of the way all of us handle playing cards.

El Mystico wrote:What did reviewers say about Vernon's performances when he was at his peak?

Robert Reinhart wrote in 1937 "Vernon is working on an act which has been booked unseen on his reputation...if he ever produces it it will be the best magic around and entirely original in its presentation."

Holden wrote in 1938 "he has built up a most wonderful act of magic that is a sensation"

Hugard wrote in 1938 "He has an artistry that tingles at his fingertips."

Holden in 1938 on the Harlequin act; Vernon "Repeated his success...as usual he stopped the show"

Bess Houdini said Vernon was the greatest genius with cards she had ever seen

Holden in 1941 on the Dai Yen act: "Vernon...stopped the show with his two effects"

Holden 1941 "Dai recently followed Charlie Chaplin at an event, and of course he came thru with flying colors."

Only their opinions; but they did have the benefit of seeing vernon at his prime

Richard Kaufman wrote:Houdini's skill with a deck of cards was mainly as a stage manipulator.

Glenn Bishop wrote:...I don't think that hobby magic does a very good job recording magic history.

Just my opinion.

El Mystico wrote:For fairness, I should also add these:

(I think Vernon and Hugard were probably in dispute around now, over the publication in ECT of many of Vernon's techniques without his permission))

Richard Hatch wrote:

El Mystico wrote:For fairness, I should also add these:

(I think Vernon and Hugard were probably in dispute around now, over the publication in ECT of many of Vernon's techniques without his permission))

The first edition of ECT was late 1940 (Foreword is dated November 14, 1940), so if the quote is dated accurately, it would predate that dispute.

Dustin Stinett wrote:Its one thing for Vernon to get positive reviews from other magicians who, it can be argued, are biased (or blinded according to some) by their respect for him. But what about journalists from the general press: What did they have to say about this mere amateur magician?

Max Stinnett (AP Staff Writer) had this to say in a piece that appeared in several papers in the fall of 1938 (accompanying photo is of Vernon performing the Linking Rings wearing his Harlequin costume):

Dai Vernon mystifies the customers at the Rainbow Grill. It took no more than Vernon's first trick to mystify me. Flipping the folds of his cape back over his shoulders, he peels off his white gloves, 'folds' them, once and tosses them into the air. The gloves take wing and turn into a white dove. The night I was investigating, the dove described a half arc around the dance floor and alighted on the finger of a guest. "Hi, Toots," said the guest. The dove didn't reply. Dai (short for David) Vernon is known to the conjuring fraternity as "the magician's magician." He gives credit for the apparent revival of public Interest in magic to the fact that the art has been streamlined. The old cumbersome apparatus tricks have been replaced by greater skill and speed and a higher development of what he calls "the psychology of misdirection."

Not too bad for an amateur.

I have nothing more to add, nor do I need to.

Dustin
(Hobby Historian)

Dustin Stinett wrote: Max Stinnett (AP Staff Writer) had this to say in a piece that appeared in several papers in the fall of 1938 (accompanying photo is of Vernon performing the Linking Rings wearing his Harlequin costume):

Dai Vernon mystifies the customers at the Rainbow Grill. It took no more than Vernon's first trick to mystify me. Flipping the folds of his cape back over his shoulders, he peels off his white gloves, 'folds' them, once and tosses them into the air. The gloves take wing and turn into a white dove. The night I was investigating, the dove described a half arc around the dance floor and alighted on the finger of a guest. "Hi, Toots," said the guest. The dove didn't reply. Dai (short for David) Vernon is known to the conjuring fraternity as "the magician's magician." He gives credit for the apparent revival of public Interest in magic to the fact that the art has been streamlined. The old cumbersome apparatus tricks have been replaced by greater skill and speed and a higher development of what he calls "the psychology of misdirection."

Vernon once traveled over the midwest searching for a Mississippi gambler named Kennedy who, he had heard, did a "center deal" - dealing from the center of a deck of cards after it had been cut, while appearing to deal from the top.

"One of the big' moments of my life came when I first saw Kennedy do his center deal," Vernon says. "The man had devoted 10 years to perfecting that trick and had made a fortune with it. It was beautiful, awe-inspiring - like the discovery of a new world."

El Mystico wrote:As for the concept of naturalness; while clearly he was influenced by Erdnase, he also says in the Vernon Touch "Dr James William Elliott...said to me many times, "The secret is so simple. Be natural.""

Jim Maloney wrote:Naturalness was also a hallmark of Leipzig's work. So much so, in fact, that when S.H. Sharpe defined his five "Styles of Magical Presentation" in the late 70's, he used Leipzig as the exemplar for the "Naturalistic Style".

Sharpe also gave an excellent description of what it means to "be natural" (with some assistance from a 1913 article by Servais LeRoy on the subject).

-Jim