Please retire the term, "cardman."

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k410
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Re: Please retire the term, "cardman."

Postby k410 » March 2nd, 2024, 8:34 pm

Jonathan Townsend wrote:
k410 wrote:Next up: "Coins = Colonialism"

(TBH, for some years I thought it might be a bad idea to mix US, Mexican, and "Chinese" coins in a presentation -- even if the intention only involved the different colors and the convenient sizes.)

There are folks from all over the planet, including Mexico and China, crossing our (US) southern border these days.

Thank goodness the British and the Americans never crossed anyone else's borders.

Really the idea I meant to present is that using props with obvious national or cultural associations might provide the wrong kind of misdirection and take the performance off the rails and might even spoil the whole social occasion.

k410
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Re: Please retire the term, "cardman."

Postby k410 » March 2nd, 2024, 8:56 pm

k410 wrote:
Jonathan Townsend wrote:
k410 wrote:Next up: "Coins = Colonialism"

(TBH, for some years I thought it might be a bad idea to mix US, Mexican, and "Chinese" coins in a presentation -- even if the intention only involved the different colors and the convenient sizes.)

There are folks from all over the planet, including Mexico and China, crossing our (US) southern border these days.

Thank goodness the British and the Americans never crossed anyone else's borders.

Really the idea I meant to present is that using props with obvious national or cultural associations might provide the wrong kind of misdirection and take the performance off the rails and might even spoil the whole social occasion.


Er, sorry for my contribution to derailing this thread.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Please retire the term, "cardman."

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 2nd, 2024, 8:56 pm

Coin worker.
Card worker.
Lay people
Lay person
Lay folks.
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Dustin Stinett
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Re: Please retire the term, "cardman."

Postby Dustin Stinett » March 2nd, 2024, 9:28 pm

I often use the term, "the laity." (Thank you George Bernard Shaw.)

k410
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Re: Please retire the term, "cardman."

Postby k410 » March 2nd, 2024, 9:32 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:Coin worker.
Card worker.
Lay people
Lay person
Lay folks.

OK so far re: gender neutrality, but "lay people" seems to imply some kind of priesthood to which they do not belong.

"These false priests with their false astonishments -- what is to be done?!!!"

;-)

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Re: Please retire the term, "cardman."

Postby Leo Garet » March 11th, 2024, 1:23 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:Coin worker.
Card worker.
Lay people
Lay person
Lay folks.


Generally. I see nothing wrong with any of these.

For me they’re technical terms comfortably at home in a Magic book for Magicians. They’ve stood the test of time. If they grate for some people, well, that’s not surprising.

Outside Magic coin worker and card worker are a bit puzzling, I suppose. People are likely to say, "What do you mean by that?" But the others are okay and most people have heard the word "layman" more than a few times.

I've had a fun time revisiting this thread Very interesting reading, even the bits wot I wrote. :)

I was also reminded of the attempts to expunge “spectator” from the lingo and substitute “participant”. How’s that going?

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Please retire the term, "cardman."

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 11th, 2024, 11:37 pm

Sleight of hand artist also works.
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Re: Please retire the term, "cardman."

Postby Jonathan Townsend » March 12th, 2024, 10:27 am

Artist would be welcome.
Study the craft.
Develop a style/brand
Sell to the market/audience.

Engage participants.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

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Re: Please retire the term, "cardman."

Postby Leo Garet » March 12th, 2024, 2:44 pm

Jonathan Townsend wrote:Engage participants.

And spectators.
:) ;)

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Please retire the term, "cardman."

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 12th, 2024, 4:49 pm

Most magicians are not artists.
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Re: Please retire the term, "cardman."

Postby katterfelt0 » March 13th, 2024, 7:31 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:Most magicians are not artists.

This is true of most painters, dancers, actors, musicians...
Effect and method are inextricably linked.

k410
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Re: Please retire the term, "cardman."

Postby k410 » April 11th, 2024, 12:49 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:Most magicians are not artists.

I have also had the thought (not that I'm anyone to shake a stick at) that some magicians are really only fooling themselves -- which is fine. It can be a very pleasant pastime.

As for the OP: yes, of course, even if this is only part of the specialized behind-the-scenes vocabulary. If it helps to make magic less of an exclusive "boys' club", that seems like a good term to retire.

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Re: Please retire the term, "cardman."

Postby Tarotist » April 11th, 2024, 7:20 am

I keep getting a psychic vibe of the expression "who cares?"

k410
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Re: Please retire the term, "cardman."

Postby k410 » April 12th, 2024, 12:24 am

Tarotist wrote:I keep getting a psychic vibe of the expression "who cares?"

Maybe some fraction of the current readership?

Please don't tell us you got into magic or "tarot reading" to meet girls/women (or guys).

Actually, that would be fine and understandable if you did. Maybe just a generational thing. Might also be a perennial thing.

Hmm. Time will tell.

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Re: Please retire the term, "cardman."

Postby Tarotist » April 12th, 2024, 7:15 am

k410 wrote:
Tarotist wrote:I keep getting a psychic vibe of the expression "who cares?"

Maybe some fraction of the current readership?

Please don't tell us you got into magic or "tarot reading" to meet girls/women (or guys).

Actually, that would be fine and understandable if you did. Maybe just a generational thing. Might also be a perennial thing.

Hmm. Time will tell.


Time will indeed tell. But the question is what will it tell? Working on the theory of fair exchange and considering how often I have told time I shall now ask time to tell me what the hell you are talking about?

Now with regard to your response about a fraction of the current readership I was not criticising in any way that minute segment of the magic population. I was merely saying that I got a vibe of the phrase "who cares?" I was minding my own business when the vibe came through and have no idea where it came from. Possibly from some long departed magician who has been reading this thread from the spirit world and is bored stiff with it. Nothing to do with me----I only transmit the messages.

To further answer your question I did not get into magic or Tarot readings to meet people of either gender although that is an inevitable side effect of both activities. I took up magic for the same reason everyone else does it (but of course I became much better than anyone else) and that was for the pure enjoyment of the art. And of course to bring joy to the people that watched it.

The reason I took up the Tarot was to help people and more importantly to make great gobs of money. I do hope that answers your question.

Have a good day.....................


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