Nonsense in Mentalisim

A place where beginners can participate, ask questions, and post their views. However, beginners typically ask a lot of questions about sources, tricks, books, and so on. In fact, all magicians are interested (or should be) in the provenance of tricks, ideas, and related matters. This department will service these needs.
Conrejour
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Nonsense in Mentalisim

Postby Conrejour » January 8th, 2019, 2:58 pm

In recent times it seems a fair amount of mentalists talk about effects using so called N L P techniques . I understand when this is done as an possible explanation to a baffled spectator as it deflects from the real methodology involved but do any mentalists seriously talke this pseudoscientific nonsense seriously?
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performer
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Re: Nonsense in Mentalisim

Postby performer » January 8th, 2019, 3:16 pm

I consider NLP to be an abbreviation for Not a Lot of Plausibility. I did see one of the founders wandering around a psychic fair once. I don't know if it was Bandler or Grinder. He had a pony tail haircut and that put me off him right away. Besides I did hear that one of them was charged with murdering someone or other but managed to get acquitted. I am not sure if it was the one with the pony tail or not.

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Brian Douglas
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Re: Nonsense in Mentalisim

Postby Brian Douglas » January 8th, 2019, 3:21 pm

Don't blame the ponytail...

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Re: Nonsense in Mentalisim

Postby Jonathan Townsend » January 8th, 2019, 3:21 pm

Whose confirmation bias are you seeking to flatter?
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Conrejour
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Re: Nonsense in Mentalisim

Postby Conrejour » January 8th, 2019, 3:43 pm

performer wrote:I consider NLP to be an abbreviation for Not a Lot of Plausibility. I did see one of the founders wandering around a psychic fair once. I don't know if it was Bandler or Grinder. He had a pony tail haircut and that put me off him right away. Besides I did hear that one of them was charged with murdering someone or other but managed to get acquitted. I am not sure if it was the one with the pony tail or not.



Bandler was the one accused of murder and he was also a former coke head , the unfortunately named Grinder is the one who sports a ponytail :D
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Re: Nonsense in Mentalisim

Postby webbmaster » February 20th, 2020, 3:17 pm

NeuroLinguistic Programming serves as a patter line for mentalists so as to avoid claiming ESP. I've seen even Derren Brown explain something like this in patter on a TV special a long time ago. Joel Bauer used to love that line. I don't know about "real" psychics, but it is similar to claiming to be able to tell if someone is lying by looking at their body language. It is a throw-off of the method and at the same time avoids mentioning the supernatural.

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Re: Nonsense in Mentalisim

Postby performer » February 20th, 2020, 3:54 pm

I don't think that is a good premise. It is a false premise just like saying you are a real mindreader. If you are going to use a false premise anyway you might as well go all out and either imply or downright claim that you are doing the real thing. Alas however I don't believe even doing that is going to work nowadays. In the old days there were very few mentalists around so they could get away with certain claims.

I don't believe they can now since there is a mentalist on every street corner and both they and their secrets are all over the internet. And you see a lot of them appearing on magic shows with other magicians. And of course most of them are as boring as hell so nobody actually cares if they are the real thing anyway.

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Grippo's Wish
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Re: Nonsense in Mentalisim

Postby Grippo's Wish » February 20th, 2020, 4:58 pm

Conrejour wrote:In recent times it seems a fair amount of mentalists talk about effects using so called N L P techniques . I understand when this is done as an possible explanation to a baffled spectator as it deflects from the real methodology involved but do any mentalists seriously talke this pseudoscientific nonsense seriously?


1. Why would you care what other people think?

2. How much do you know about NLP to label it as "pseudoscientific nonsense"?

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Re: Nonsense in Mentalisim

Postby webbmaster » April 3rd, 2020, 8:07 pm

Most people believe in the supernatural. I saw a figure in Newsweek magazine that said 86% percent of some poll claimed to have seen an angel in their lifetime. I hope that figure is high. Oscar Weigle, who invented Annemann's favorite trick Alias Divination, which claimed that you were a super expert at doing handwriting analysis. You can claim anything...just not for an audience of magicians. I'm talking about the public. I don't hold with the "you have to run a disclaimer or you're a charlatan" crowd when you're on stage. Off stage doing any kind of psychic healing IS being a charlatan...but who's counting anymore.

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Re: Nonsense in Mentalisim

Postby Liderc » April 6th, 2020, 4:59 am

I always find it amusing the Mentalists who are the loudest about "don't act like you have real powers" and go off on some moralists rant, and yet turn around and present as some NLP expert
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Conrejour
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Re: Nonsense in Mentalisim

Postby Conrejour » August 19th, 2020, 9:05 am

1. Why would you care what other people think?

Because I’m curious , I made a comment asking for opinions

2. How much do you know about NLP to label it as "pseudoscientific nonsense"?

I know enough to know it’s utter nonsense
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AJM
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Re: Nonsense in Mentalisim

Postby AJM » August 19th, 2020, 3:42 pm

I suspecting Longtimelurker will going back to lurking long time before soon.
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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Nonsense in Mentalisim

Postby Richard Kaufman » August 19th, 2020, 4:25 pm

He's from the UK, so his English should be a lot better.
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Diego
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Re: Nonsense in Mentalisim

Postby Diego » August 21st, 2020, 8:26 pm

I remember 10/20 years(!) ago, there was someone selling a course, which included some of the techniques by the NLP proponents mentioned in this thread, on how to (to say it politely) attract and compel attractive women to fullfill your desires. Skeptical at first, a mentalist acquaintance, who specialized in private readings for clients, purchased ($100/$200?) the course and satisfied with the contents, made copies for other readers who also noted positive results as well.

The ability to connect, make the client believe you KNEW them and KNEW what they were experiencing and wanted...really wanted, and remember YOU, lived up to the advertising/hype that sold the course.

(I know one reader studied the course with probably with the original intent in mind.) Did it work all the time? Of course not...sometimes the feedback the client gave others, "It sounded like he was coming on to me."
But I was reliably told, by those I know, that the techniques that included NLP based methods were valid and had discernable results.

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Re: Nonsense in Mentalisim

Postby jimb_85 » September 19th, 2020, 10:15 pm

Bragging about NLP just seems like an unnecessary ego boost. A mentalist's routines prove they're already skilled; they don't need to try and boost their image more with pseudoscientific bragging.


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