Who made John Ramsay's props such as those for the cylinder and coin?

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Suresh
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Who made John Ramsay's props such as those for the cylinder and coin?

Postby Suresh » September 20th, 2018, 10:45 am

Curious to know who made John Ramsay's props such as those for the Cylinder and Coins. Also, do the originals still exist and, if so, where can one see them?

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Re: Who made John Ramsay's props such as those for the cylinder and coin?

Postby webbmaster » February 20th, 2020, 3:20 pm

I don't really know but back in the day, Conrad Hayden was THE guy making good gaffs. Maybe it was him. David Roth would know.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Who made John Ramsay's props such as those for the cylinder and coin?

Postby Richard Kaufman » February 20th, 2020, 3:25 pm

No one would know the answer to this question at this point.
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Brad Henderson
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Re: Who made John Ramsay's props such as those for the cylinder and coin?

Postby Brad Henderson » February 20th, 2020, 4:03 pm

Is andrew Galloway no longer Alive? Might he know?

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Re: Who made John Ramsay's props such as those for the cylinder and coin?

Postby Ian Kendall » February 20th, 2020, 4:30 pm

Andy is alive, but I imagine Ramsay had the cylinder made long before he became the student.

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Re: Who made John Ramsay's props such as those for the cylinder and coin?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » February 20th, 2020, 5:00 pm

Interesting question. There's some information and photos in Galloway's books and the booklet on the rope trick.
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Andy Galloway
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Re: Who made John Ramsay's props such as those for the cylinder and coin?

Postby Andy Galloway » February 21st, 2020, 8:32 pm

I am still alive, if only just. The fake stack for the Cylinder & Coins was made by a local tinsmith and John made the rest of the props for the trick by himself, also for his cups and balls routine. His secretary Mrs French made the Tasselled Rope Trick and he kept his close up props in a small case which I used to carry for him at conventions. Shortly after he died it and some of the medals and cups he won for conjuring and gardening went missing from his house. I believe the Magic Circle has a few coins and thimbles he used in their museum.

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Re: Who made John Ramsay's props such as those for the cylinder and coin?

Postby webbmaster » March 23rd, 2020, 1:04 pm

Thank you Andy. That was a very interesting post.

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Re: Who made John Ramsay's props such as those for the cylinder and coin?

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 23rd, 2020, 1:42 pm

Good to hear from you Andy!
For the cups and balls, ramsay used small cardboard ice cream containers he painted silver, I believe.
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Andy Galloway
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Re: Who made John Ramsay's props such as those for the cylinder and coin?

Postby Andy Galloway » March 24th, 2020, 9:51 pm

That is correct Richard, he originally used metal cups, but they were lost when his close up case was stolen on a bus trip and could not be replaced. However, when he noticed that small ice cream cups were approximately the same size and shape he used them from then on.

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Re: Who made John Ramsay's props such as those for the cylinder and coin?

Postby Jim Martin » March 24th, 2020, 9:55 pm

Hello, Andy,

Thank you for your posts - I so appreciate your first hand knowledge and comments about one of the major influences on our art.

Best,
Jim
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St. Louis MO

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Who made John Ramsay's props such as those for the cylinder and coin?

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 25th, 2020, 9:06 am

Andy, do you give the dimensions of the cups anywhere?
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Re: Who made John Ramsay's props such as those for the cylinder and coin?

Postby MagicbyAlfred » March 25th, 2020, 9:15 am

Andy Galloway wrote:That is correct Richard, he originally used metal cups, but they were lost when his close up case was stolen on a bus trip and could not be replaced. However, when he noticed that small ice cream cups were approximately the same size and shape he used them from then on.


That is a fascinating fact. That he painted them silver, as was mentioned, is not surprising, as one might be inclined to try to make them more spiffy and look more like "magical" apparatus. Yet I can't help but wonder if, generally speaking, just leaving the ice cream cups as they were might have been significantly more disarming and impactful to the spectators.

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Re: Who made John Ramsay's props such as those for the cylinder and coin?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » March 25th, 2020, 12:00 pm

Andy, would you discuss John Ramsay's routine which included producing glasses? That would be the routine before he adopted paper cups.
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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Who made John Ramsay's props such as those for the cylinder and coin?

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 25th, 2020, 2:15 pm

Painting them cuts down on visual clutter.
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Q. Kumber
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Re: Who made John Ramsay's props such as those for the cylinder and coin?

Postby Q. Kumber » March 25th, 2020, 6:34 pm

What surprised me was that John Ramsay had a secretary.

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Re: Who made John Ramsay's props such as those for the cylinder and coin?

Postby John Bowden » March 25th, 2020, 7:29 pm

Q. Kumber wrote:What surprised me was that John Ramsay had a secretary.


He was a successful shopkeeper, (judging by his ability to maintain extensive gardens) and as such would have had need for an accounts secretary or bookkeeper.
It would have been at a time when there were extensive book-keeping practices ie copying from Day book to Journal to Ledger and then to statements.
Computers have taken away all those jobs and what once took maybe two or three weeks to do can be done in an hour or less.

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Re: Who made John Ramsay's props such as those for the cylinder and coin?

Postby Andy Galloway » March 26th, 2020, 9:44 am

The cups measured two and a quarter inches high, two and three eights across the base and two and one eight across the top. They were painted aluminium or silver to simulate metal. I believe it was Stanley Collins who reprimanded John for using cardboard cups not knowing the reason why he had to.
I never saw him perform the version which produced glasses as it was one of his earliest. He said it was a set of metal cups which were gimmicked to hold small shot glasses with enough room underneath for a ball. After a short series of passes, the glasses were released for the climax of the routine.
His secretary was Mrs Agnes French who started in his grocer`s shop as a counter assistant and being very bright became his book keeper, handled all his correspondence and organized his trips to conventions. She typed the original manuscripts of the books he wrote with Victor Farelli and acted as his hostess when he entertained any magicians and other artists who played the local Gaiety Theater including a young Julie Andrews and her parents.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Who made John Ramsay's props such as those for the cylinder and coin?

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 26th, 2020, 11:47 am

Thank you, Andy!
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