Who invented What's Next?

A place where beginners can participate, ask questions, and post their views. However, beginners typically ask a lot of questions about sources, tricks, books, and so on. In fact, all magicians are interested (or should be) in the provenance of tricks, ideas, and related matters. This department will service these needs.
Umpa Duze
Posts: 183
Joined: June 5th, 2008, 8:27 pm
Location: Humboldt County CA

Who invented What's Next?

Postby Umpa Duze » October 2nd, 2013, 10:03 pm

Hi All,
I wonder if anyone knows who is credited with creating the trick What's Next now advertised under a variety of names such as Hoppin Dots?
Thanks Umpa
Cheers,
Umpa Duze

User avatar
Richard Kaufman
Posts: 24460
Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Re: Who invented What's Next?

Postby Richard Kaufman » October 2nd, 2013, 10:19 pm

The trick where spots move around on a large flat card or die goes back a long way. Originally the spots were on threads.

I believe (but would be happy to be corrected) that Akira Yamada, founder of the Tenyo Company, created the metal version (both large card and die) using black magnetic spots in the late 1960s.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

I.M. Magician
Posts: 960
Joined: August 19th, 2013, 10:49 pm
Favorite Magician: All of the very best!
Location: Magicville

Re: Who invented What's Next?

Postby I.M. Magician » October 2nd, 2013, 11:05 pm

I would like to add that were playing card size cardboard versions of the effect with printed pips but no movable ones. Therefore, you could only do the 1, 4, 3, and 6 sequence but nothing more and no climax. I believe that they were circa 1950's but not certain.

Umpa Duze
Posts: 183
Joined: June 5th, 2008, 8:27 pm
Location: Humboldt County CA

Re: Who invented What's Next?

Postby Umpa Duze » October 2nd, 2013, 11:34 pm

Thanks so much for the help. I really appreciate it.
Umpa
Cheers,

Umpa Duze

baabaablacksheep
Posts: 45
Joined: August 17th, 2013, 5:05 am

Re: Who invented What's Next?

Postby baabaablacksheep » October 2nd, 2013, 11:46 pm

I am not totally sure but I though I read somewhere that it is a domino that is being manipulated.

User avatar
Matthew Field
Posts: 2772
Joined: January 18th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Slydini
Location: Hastings, England, UK

Re: Who invented What's Next?

Postby Matthew Field » October 3rd, 2013, 4:30 am

Angelo Carbone has a neat 3-D version called "The Nine-Sided Die".

Matt Field

User avatar
erdnasephile
Posts: 3844
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm

Re: Who invented What's Next?

Postby erdnasephile » October 3rd, 2013, 5:59 am

I still remember sitting in the audience of "It's Magic" as a kid and watching Terry Seabrooke.

When he pulled out the spot card, I was thinking: "Oh, I know this one." When he was done, my mind was completely blown by his killer finish. Too bad his routine never saw print.

If memory serves, I think David Copperfield used (uses?) this trick as an emergency trick for if something goes wrong in his show and he needs to fill time.

Richard Tremblay
Posts: 119
Joined: March 14th, 2008, 8:42 am

Re: Who invented What's Next?

Postby Richard Tremblay » October 3rd, 2013, 10:54 am

erdnasephile,

You're right. I saw DC doing his routine 20 years ago and I recall that it was really good. I often use this as an example when I tell people how David Copperfield is a great magician and that he can take a common magic store item and make it much better than anyone else.

Jonathan Townsend
Posts: 7913
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Westchester, NY
Contact:

Re: Who invented What's Next?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » October 3rd, 2013, 12:32 pm

Umpa Duze wrote:Hi All,
I wonder if anyone knows who is credited with creating the trick What's Next now advertised under a variety of names such as Hoppin Dots?
Thanks Umpa


Credit might go to the guy who invented that two pipped three - to be shown as an ace or a three depending.

Does the trick with the double sided prop predate the Die routine? If so - where?
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

User avatar
Steve Bryant
Posts: 1855
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Ballantine
Location: Bloomington IN
Contact:

Re: Who invented What's Next?

Postby Steve Bryant » October 3rd, 2013, 1:03 pm

Here are a couple of variants from Ken Allen's catalog, early sixties:



http://littleegyptmagic.com/dots.jpg

I.M. Magician
Posts: 960
Joined: August 19th, 2013, 10:49 pm
Favorite Magician: All of the very best!
Location: Magicville

Re: Who invented What's Next?

Postby I.M. Magician » October 3rd, 2013, 1:08 pm

I am pretty certain that the basic concept dates well before the sixties. The pip card I mentioned was older than that. Unfortunately, I cannot determine the time period. My best guess is the fifties or earlier.

It reminds me of the "pick a card" phrase. Who first said that?

Jonathan Townsend
Posts: 7913
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Westchester, NY
Contact:

Re: Who invented What's Next?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » October 3rd, 2013, 1:38 pm

We've gone back to the times of Sachs, Rotterberg, Hoffmann and on our away back to Robert-Houdin - a ways before the nineteen sixties.

Bill Mullins
Posts: 4897
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL

Re: Who invented What's Next?

Postby Bill Mullins » October 3rd, 2013, 2:18 pm

Steve Bryant wrote:Here are a couple of variants from Ken Allen's catalog, early sixties:

http://littleegyptmagic.com/dots.jpg


From looking at old Linking Rings on AskAlexander, it looks like "Daffy Dots" came out around Dec 1956/Jan 1957, and "Dizzy Diamonds" from Spring 1955.

I.M. Magician
Posts: 960
Joined: August 19th, 2013, 10:49 pm
Favorite Magician: All of the very best!
Location: Magicville

Re: Who invented What's Next?

Postby I.M. Magician » October 3rd, 2013, 2:28 pm

If someone asked me what three tricks I have performed more than any others, my answer would be WHAT'S NEXT, PROFESSOR'S NIGHTMARE, and SCOTCH AND SODA (in one form or another).

Believe it or not, I was STILL using the same WHAT'S NEXT I purchased when it first came out until recently. I decided to retire it and break open a new one.

You really can't beat the classics.

Jonathan Townsend
Posts: 7913
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Westchester, NY
Contact:

Re: Who invented What's Next?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » October 3rd, 2013, 3:17 pm

Still looks like someone decided to duplicate the Sachs routine with a die using a deland (or hofzinser) type card - but showing the thing openly as an odd prop.

How about the "spinning arrow" item - about the same time frame?
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

User avatar
Richard Kaufman
Posts: 24460
Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Re: Who invented What's Next?

Postby Richard Kaufman » October 3rd, 2013, 3:49 pm

I am interested in whether there are any versions using a metal surface and magnetic dots prior to 1967. Does anyone know how the earlier versions work? I'm thinking they're just cardboard or wooden dots on threads or sliding in grooves.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

Jonathan Townsend
Posts: 7913
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Westchester, NY
Contact:

Re: Who invented What's Next?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » October 3rd, 2013, 4:06 pm

The item as done with a playing card - going from ace to four to three to five to nine of diamonds appears in New Era Card Tricks

http://books.google.com/books?id=R-URAA ... &q&f=false

This seems to put the routine structure, handling and mechanical aspect dating back to 1900 or before.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

User avatar
Q. Kumber
Posts: 1572
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Manchester, England

Re: Who invented What's Next?

Postby Q. Kumber » October 3rd, 2013, 4:09 pm

Harry Stanley used sell the version using a large white board and diamond shaped pips. The extra pips were attached with threads and moved along them, so they always ended up in the right position.

In my opinion it is superior to the magnetic version as the Stanley version simply looked like a giant playing card.

It was a staple in the repertoires of many professional magicians in the UK and Ireland.

It is advertised in The GEN, July 1956 as POP EYE PIPS priced at £1 or $4 and I'm sure it was in the Stanley catalogue well before that. Back then you got a lot more dollars for your pound sterling.

I.M. Magician
Posts: 960
Joined: August 19th, 2013, 10:49 pm
Favorite Magician: All of the very best!
Location: Magicville

Re: Who invented What's Next?

Postby I.M. Magician » October 3rd, 2013, 4:11 pm

It sounds like the one JT mentions makes use of the flip down card method. That allows for a climax.

Jonathan Townsend
Posts: 7913
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Westchester, NY
Contact:

Re: Who invented What's Next?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » October 3rd, 2013, 4:17 pm

The finale of the routine as written in the Roterberg book item is a blank both sides card.
Perhaps The diligent performer was expected to have those sides decorated to suit the occasion.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

Edwin Corrie
Posts: 489
Joined: January 18th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Geneva, Switzerland

Re: Who invented What's Next?

Postby Edwin Corrie » October 3rd, 2013, 6:54 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:I am interested in whether there are any versions using a metal surface and magnetic dots prior to 1967. Does anyone know how the earlier versions work? I'm thinking they're just cardboard or wooden dots on threads or sliding in grooves.


The sliding pip cards in Roterberg (and also Conradi's "Der moderne Kartenkünstler", from which a lot of Roterberg's material seems to have come) use thread and presumably cardboard pips, but the one Jonathan mentioned (from Roterberg) is the kind that involves covering blank spaces with your fingers, as in What's Next. The basic idea for that goes back to Guyot's "Nouvelles Récréations mathématiques et physiques" (1769), which describes the ace to three change with the addition of an extra pip of another suit stuck on with soap. This means you can show the Ace of Spades, then scrape off the spade pip and show the Ace of Hearts and finally the Three of Hearts.

User avatar
Richard Kaufman
Posts: 24460
Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Re: Who invented What's Next?

Postby Richard Kaufman » October 3rd, 2013, 8:11 pm

I understand about the printed playing card with apparently six sides--it's in Hoffmann. I'm only concerned with that advance upon that, which is moving the pips around so there are actually three (or one), and then six (or four) and then eight and ten spots where the dots are magnetic. (Thanks Quentin!)
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

User avatar
Steve Bryant
Posts: 1855
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Ballantine
Location: Bloomington IN
Contact:

Re: Who invented What's Next?

Postby Steve Bryant » October 3rd, 2013, 10:10 pm

Richard, Here is another make, in metal and therefore probably the same method, and also probably later. This is from a Magic, Inc. catalog #20, whenever that was.

http://littleegyptmagic.com/domino.jpg

In the Abbott's catalog #20 (also no idea what date; wish the dealers had dated their catalogs), What's Next sold for $3.50. The domino trick shown above sold for $8.00.

User avatar
Richard Kaufman
Posts: 24460
Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Re: Who invented What's Next?

Postby Richard Kaufman » October 4th, 2013, 12:03 am

Steve, look at the books in your Magic Inc. catalogue: what's the last-published book listed. That's how you can tell when a catalogue came out.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

User avatar
Brad Jeffers
Posts: 896
Joined: April 11th, 2008, 5:52 pm
Location: Savannah, GA

Re: Who invented What's Next?

Postby Brad Jeffers » October 4th, 2013, 1:31 am

The "Devilish Domino" was also in Magic Inc's #19 catalog. This catalog was circa 1969. It listed for only $5 at that time. A Top Hat Magic Company catalog dated 1971 lists the effect as Dinamo (What's Next) and was also priced at $5.

Max Maven
Posts: 443
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Hollywood, CA
Contact:

Re: Who invented What's Next?

Postby Max Maven » October 4th, 2013, 3:22 am

Different trick, but same method: "Domi-No" by Tom Barker, Abra #1131, September 30, 1967.

Jonathan Townsend
Posts: 7913
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Westchester, NY
Contact:

Re: Who invented What's Next?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » October 4th, 2013, 8:06 am

When did the thin vinyl covered refrigerator magnets start getting popular?

Asking as that's about when the material became available for tinkering.

Flocking (glue then static charge then fiber coating), IIRC became available a little later.

On the square prop side, I'm curious if there's mention of the card-as-die presentation from before the actual die and sleight of hand item got into print.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

User avatar
erdnasephile
Posts: 3844
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm

Re: Who invented What's Next?

Postby erdnasephile » October 4th, 2013, 11:05 am

Matthew Field wrote:Angelo Carbone has a neat 3-D version called "The Nine-Sided Die".

Matt Field




Bill Evans
Posts: 90
Joined: March 11th, 2008, 4:56 pm

Re: Who invented What's Next?

Postby Bill Evans » October 4th, 2013, 1:09 pm

Ben Stone [Delben] made the Delben Domino which was [and is] a great prop I have used in many CLE presentations over the years because of the "loophole" finish. If you have one, you know what I mean. If you don't, one of the dots becomes a hole in the domino at the end. There is always a "loophole" to talk to lawyers about. The only disadvantage is the hand movement to move the dots which has to be justified. Eugene Burger discussed this issue at his lecture at the IBM Convention in Phoenix this year. Ben had a great justification to disguise the hand movement that I have always used, based on the false explanation of the working of the domino.

Doc Rogers
Posts: 29
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Daryl, Michael Vincent ,David Regal
Location: Boston MA

Re: Who invented What's Next?

Postby Doc Rogers » October 28th, 2013, 3:47 pm

Richard
My uncle used a version purchased in the early 50's that was an approximately 8 by 11 sheet of metal painted white and red card board poker chips with magnets glued in hollows in the chips for the moving dots. The stationary dots were split poker chips that were glued to the metal sheet. I have no idea who made the item and my uncle has been gone for 25 years. However it certainly predates the 1967 date.
Doc

User avatar
Richard Kaufman
Posts: 24460
Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Re: Who invented What's Next?

Postby Richard Kaufman » October 28th, 2013, 4:26 pm

Thanks, Doc!
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine


Return to “Reference Room”