John Edward, Crossing Over

Instead of mentally projecting your mentalism thoughts, type them here.
Doug Brewer
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Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Doug Brewer » August 28th, 2002, 8:30 am

Ralph - you're killing me. I haven't laughed so hard in a long time. I now officially ordain you a High Minister of Counter-B.S. Your black robe and pentagram are in the mail. You also get an official High Priest ring to increase your "bio-magnetism" (I believe it's called an Enigma Ring).

If I hadn't (unfortunately) visited Browning's web site, I would start to think we were being trolled. Isn't there a metaphysical/bio-magnetism/wacko forum he can visit and be taken seriously? I'm starting to feel sorry for the guy. A sound-proof geometric (I think this is what he meant) cube of fog? ... okay ... right. I think a visit to a nice mental health facility would be in order for Mr. Browning.

Richard, this has been good for a few laughs, but who let this guy on this forum anyway? I know, I know, I'm trying to censor us all from the Truth.

So anyway, Browning, what's your favorite Double Lift?

Guest

Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Guest » August 28th, 2002, 9:28 am

In regards to my "Challenge" ... the first one is easy... create a geometic cube of fog out of which no sound can emit or enter, large enough to contain no less than 12 people. You must do this in the middle of a park without any kind support equipment (pumps, Co2 cans, etc.)in other words, 100% free of a pre-set, theatrical controls, etc.

I and a friend of mine saw this done in the late 70s by a group of Druids in San Francisco @ Golden Gate Park. Ken Whitaker and I attempted to create the cube @ the Creative warehouse in Vegas several years ago as a promotion for Ford (introduction for the Mystique)... The one version I have that does work, won't meet the standards noted above... it's strictly for stage.
In order for this challenge to be valid, you must first produce footage, or better yet, a live demonstration of this feat performed by the Druids. It's not good enough to say that you saw it happen, and then demand others to reproduce it.

Based on the best available evidence, I don't believe you saw it happen. I believe that you were either fooled badly (how do you know there was no set-up), or maybe on acid (after all it was SF in the 70's).

I mean, come on, your challenge is the equivalent of someone who's 'witnessed' psychid surgery saying, "ok, I saw someone do psychic surgery and it worked, so you have to replicate what I think I saw in order to prove that what I saw wasn't 'real'... :confused:

regards,
David L.

Guest

Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Guest » August 28th, 2002, 10:35 am

First, I want to state up front that I count myself firmly in the skeptic camp. I dont believe in ESP, or telekinesis, or much of anything along those lines. However, I do have to admit that I have suffered from electrical field imbalance (or whatever you want to call it). Watches rarely last more than a day on my wrist, computers go out with alarming frequency, cordless phones loose their charges much quicker than they should (or do with other people), and I have my suspicions that I fog film when I use it, which really sucks since Im a photographer.

Beats me why it is, and Im not saying that others out there arent being less than truthful about themselves, but it does happen.

Please understand, Im not trying to make any money from this, nor would I even consider doing so. I believe that the majority of psychic counselors do more harm than good, and that we should be ever willing to call bull when it needs calling. But this has been my experience, and I cant explain it.

Zech Johnson

Guest

Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Guest » August 28th, 2002, 11:33 am

However, I do have to admit that I have suffered from electrical field imbalance (or whatever you want to call it). Watches rarely last more than a day on my wrist, computers go out with alarming frequency, cordless phones loose their charges much quicker than they should (or do with other people), and I have my suspicions that I fog film when I use it...
When you say that watches don't last on your wrist, what exactly do you mean? Do they just stop working?

When you say computers "go out", what do you mean? Do they become irreparably damaged?

And how does the fogging of the film play into the magnetic theory? What does photography have to do with magnetism?

Guest

Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Guest » August 28th, 2002, 1:37 pm

OK, kids, get ready because I'm going to grant Craig, and now Zech, a small concession: you are indeed far from alone in your perception (I'm not ready to grant the reality) of this phenomenon.

Plug the phrase "street lamp interference" into a search engine and say hello to a broad collection of people referring to themselves as "SLIders." The reference is to the experience of frequently having street lamps wink out on you just as you're walking past them. A lot of people have this happen and are convinced that it's because of electrical fields emanating from their bodies. And a lot of those same individuals believe they experience precisely the type of interference -- with [censored] and such -- mentioned by both Craig and Zech.

The streetlamp thing happens to my wife and myself all the time on our street. As far as we're concerned, it's a self-reinforcing perception: we notice when an ornery street lamp plunges us into darkness just as we walk past...and we ignore and forget about all the times this doesn't happen.

As for [censored] stopping, well, maybe there's some kind of galvanic skin response stuff going on. I see on one of the SLI testimonials a woman mentioning that things go out of whack more often when she's stressed. Could the increased skin conductivity have an effect on a watch? I don't know. Or maybe, of the millions of people who own millions of defective watches, some get lemons more than once.

For computer weirdness, if we assume for the moment that the phenomenon is real, I'd want to rule out ambient EM field interference before attributing the trouble to biomagnetism. For a list of potential sources of household and workplace EM interference check out this link to info from a major pacemaker manufacturer.

Craig and Zech, I have learned the name of your tribe. You are SLIders. Could a little bit of what makes electric eels electric be afflicting you? I think other, far more plausible explanations (including but not limited to selective filtering of perceptions) should be ruled out before one could accept that conclusion. But despite the rolicking fun I've had on this point (and Craig, you still leave room for so, so much more), I admit that your electro-anecdotes, and others', are worth closer, truly dispassionate study.

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Matthew Field
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Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Matthew Field » August 28th, 2002, 1:46 pm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by zmjohnson:
Watches rarely last more than a day on my wrist,

Sometimes I don't know what time it is, either.

computers go out with alarming frequency,

Take it up with Bill Gates. That happens to all of us running Windows.

cordless phones loose their charges much quicker than they should

Lay off those 900 numbers.

and I have my suspicions that I fog film when I use it

Those suspicions are due to your living in Seattle. Try shooting somewhere where the sun shines every once in a while.

If this is due to an electromagneic anomaly in your body, you could charge admission. This is like people who say that often when they walk by a street light at night, it goes out. Street lights work off ballasts that often overheat and temporarily shut off (when they're malfunctioning). They do that whether there's anyone around or not.

I know my replies were facetious, but jeez.

Matt Field (now wearing aluminum foil hat)

Andy Hurst
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Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Andy Hurst » August 28th, 2002, 2:12 pm

Originally posted by Ralph Bonheim:
I'll be charitable and presume that I must not have been clear. The "we" you should count me out of are those of "us" who are "not really" bothered by the flim-flammery of TV evangelists.
My apologies I misunderstood what you meant there.

Andy

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Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Guest » August 28th, 2002, 2:16 pm

No sweat. Sorry for breathing fire.

Guest

Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Guest » August 28th, 2002, 3:06 pm

Oi, I knew I should have kept my mouth shut.

Trust me when I say I dont really believe in any of the psychic nonsense, and Im just as susceptible to perceptive filtering as the next guy (SLIders made me chuckle), but sometimes its just a bit too weird for me. Im positive there is good explanation for it all, and throughout this thread are plenty of good resources to help find them. Frankly, the best explanation might be just plain weird luck.

Oh, and Matt, please be kind to my hometown. Were currently in a stretch of beautiful, 80 degree cloudless days, and I dont want to jinx it.

Zech Johnson

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Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Guest » August 28th, 2002, 3:09 pm

The watch thing I brought out... ask Jewelers about this. They deal with it frequently... some people with this condition can wear more expensive watches or, they can insulate a watch by wearing a thicker leather band... as to the "Slider" thing and street lights... I've never heard anything about that one... I have blacked out entire banks of street lights (using a well placed Mag Light -- back issue of MAGICK)... got a great response during our Seance show!

I'll not toss more "fuel" to this fire. Everyone wants proof... everyone is right as well as wrong... Skeptics love to be cruel and demean anyone's experience (typically because they've not allowed themselves to see or experience such things. Their logical mind seeks some kind of explanation -- right or wrong -- so as to sustain their disbelief. Same holds for the believer.)

The "Nimeton" (Cube of fog) I mentioned happened. With my background in both metaphysics and stage magic, the fact that the person with me works fairly regularly on major FX type work for the film industry, both of us host a very sound case of skeptic's feaver... in short, we would have been able to find something... we didn't! I've yet to find anyone (myself included) that can replicate it EVEN UNDER CONTROLLED/THEATRICAL CONDITIONS WITH HIGH-TECH RESOURCE.

I've yet to meet any skeptic that will believe anyone was healed miraculously due to faith, so we needn't beat the Baba dog any further.

As I've stated numerous times, those of us (and there are a lot of out of the top hat closet magicians) that do Readings aren't out to screw over the public. There are those that do and to that note, I'm right there with you... BURN THEIR BUSINESS TO THE GROUND, TAR & FEATHER THE JERKS AND PLASTER THEIR FACE IN EVERY MAJOR PAPER so the public knows who they are and the kind of cons they run. I've helped investigate this kind of situation in Ohio, Tennessee, Nevada and California... I've also gone after those pesky Televangelists and Tent Revivalists that do bad billet Readings for Jesus! (straight out of Nelson's notes, no less...)

Unlike the average skeptic however, I leave room in my life to believe and to see the impossible. Like true Scientific Research, I allow room for the unknown factor... something few (if any)in the magic/skeptics cult will ever do.

Sorry guys... the trend in magic is turning against you. More and more of us are speaking out and admitting our belief and our experiences. We walk the middle part of the issue, knowing of the trickery as well as the roots and reality of the mystery. Too, we're starting to reveal the questionable enveloping the skeptic's world... inlcuding subtle little bits like James Randi promoting himself in the early 50s as a legit Psychic and Healer and negating any affiliation with magic whatsoever. :eek:

FYI... I found the link... Psychic Perspectives/On-Line Visions

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Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Guest » August 28th, 2002, 3:52 pm

It shouldn't be too difficult to test the alleged SLIders phenomenon. Just get a bunch of street lamps and a bunch of SLIders and run some tests. What's the big deal? Unless this is a brand new phenomena, I'd bet someone's already checked it out.

Craig - Why not go for Randi's million dollar challenge with your powers? Maybe the electo-magnetic thingy would qualify. If you refuse, I'd be curious to hear your reason(s).

-David L.

Guest

Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Guest » August 28th, 2002, 4:02 pm

Originally posted by David L.:
It shouldn't be too difficult to test the alleged SLIders phenomenon. Just get a bunch of street lamps and a bunch of SLIders and run some tests. What's the big deal? Unless this is a brand new phenomena, I'd bet someone's already checked it out.

Craig - Why not go for Randi's million dollar challenge with your powers? Maybe the electo-magnetic thingy would qualify. If you refuse, I'd be curious to hear your reason(s).

-David L.
Check out the conditions Mr. Randi places on these challenges... like any good scam artist.. I meant to say "Investigator"... He picks his battles. And trust me, the whole Skeptic's angle is an excellent flim flam that's made lots of hustlers as much, if not more cash than any psychic... preying on the same market groups.

Funny....it's the same market sectors Evangelists, Politicians, and Big Business single out.

BESIDES... I do not claim this to be any kind of special "Power" (let's see, the third or fourth time I've said that???) it is a natural phenomena known about, rarely spoken of because it's "just one of those things" some people live with.

Oh! You might want to check this out too...
James Randi\'s Million Dollar Challenge (Hoax)

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Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Guest » August 28th, 2002, 4:48 pm

Originally posted by David L.:
It shouldn't be too difficult to test the alleged SLIders phenomenon. Just get a bunch of street lamps and a bunch of SLIders and run some tests. What's the big deal? Unless this is a brand new phenomena, I'd bet someone's already checked it out.
From what I've seen, most of the people who count themselves as SLIders claim also to be plagued by the [censored] and computer stuff. I'm sure all such instances can be explained by some combination of coincidence, perspiration-enhanced short-circuits, perceptual filtering, and perhaps interference from things (e.g., a CB radio set) that can also screw up a cardiac pacemaker. I haven't seen any research into the matter mentioned on CSICOP, Randi's site, or the medical literature. Maybe a more plugged-in skeptic knows of some.

Some of these individuals, like Zech, seem level-headed and a tad embarrassed even to admit curiosity at whether the electro-mishaps originate with them. They deserve answers. Others, as we've seen, are possessed of recklessly dead certainty that they are walking electromagnets. They deserve scientific scrutiny, if only to allow guys like me to return to a stance of UNBRIDLED RIDICULE!

Guest

Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Guest » August 28th, 2002, 5:02 pm

BESIDES... I do not claim this to be any kind of special "Power" (let's see, the third or fourth time I've said that???) it is a natural phenomena known about, rarely spoken of because it's "just one of those things" some people live with.
Craig,

I didn't mean to imply that YOU thought it was a special power, only that Randi might consider it worthy of the prize if you can display this phenomenon under controlled, experimental conditions.

By the way, I read the article about the fact that the million $ challenge is allegedly a hoax, and found it utterly unconvincing. Come on, the two "ambiguities" referred to in the article should have little bearing on whether someone accepts the challenge.

Although, I agree that Randi probably should have accepted the challenge of the man who claimed to live only on water. I'm reminded of a post on Magic Talk, by Steve Fearson, in which he claimed to have developed an ability to attract small items to his body, through the use of meditation (I'm paraphrasing, so I apologize in advance if I'm getting this wrong Steve!). Anyway, Steve claimed that Randi had ignored his offer to prove this ability.

-David L.

Bill Duncan
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Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Bill Duncan » August 28th, 2002, 6:53 pm

Originally posted by zmjohnson:Oh, and Matt, please be kind to my hometown. Were currently in a stretch of beautiful, 80 degree cloudless days, and I dont want to jinx it.
Shhhhh. We don't want people knowing that. Everyone will want to move here.

Guest

Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Guest » August 29th, 2002, 12:31 am

So, Craig, you really had a friend who was cured of HIV by Sai Baba? And I thought he only did crappy little conjuring tricks for gullible hippies!

I'm a regular on the Magiccafe boards, and Craig pretty much says the same thing all the time. If I may paraphrase...

"Any magician who discounts the paranormal is close minded and stupid...I'm smart because I believe in the paranormal."

Craig, you are a gadfly of the worst kind. By all means have your beliefs, but stop punching them down our throats at every available opportunity.

And secondly, stop trying to claim intellectual superiority over us all with your "open-minded" claptrap. It's a poor man who must constantly try and get one up on his fellows.

Doug Brewer
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Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Doug Brewer » August 29th, 2002, 8:24 am

by David L.
I'm reminded of a post on Magic Talk, by Steve Fearson, in which he claimed to have developed an ability to attract small items to his body
I believe this is called shoplifting.

Doug Brewer
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Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Doug Brewer » August 29th, 2002, 8:31 am

Wait a minute ... my eyes are fogging over, my shorts are dropping next to a lamp post ... I'm getting a vision of the future ... of an inane post coming from Craig Browning in response to Ben Whiting's reply.

Let's all wait with bated breath to see if my prediction comes true ...

Bob Klase
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Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Bob Klase » August 29th, 2002, 8:48 am

The magic press has turned out many cold reading books. Are they published so we can merely tell people 'no thats trash' or are they published as a way of learning how to perform.
The locksmith industry turns out many books that include details on how to pick locks. Are they published so we can break into your house? Would you find it acceptable if we misuse the information to break into your house?

Do we get upset that TV Evangelists use the exact same tricks and rake in a fortune? Not really... no one really minds that much
Who is "we"? How would you feel about it if your mother gave her life savings to one? It's okay if it's someone else's mother?

Bob Klase
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Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Bob Klase » August 29th, 2002, 9:02 am

Skeptics love to be cruel and demean anyone's experience (typically because they've not allowed themselves to see or experience such things.
But many skeptics do experience strange and unusual things- often unexplainable things. The real difference between the believer and the skeptic is that the skeptic doesn't automatically jump to the conclusion that something must be paranormal just because they can't explain it.

I've yet to meet any skeptic that will believe anyone was healed miraculously due to faith, so we needn't beat the Baba dog any further.
But you should't have any problem finding many skeptics who know of people that died of the disease they were supposedly cured of.

Unlike the average skeptic however, I leave room in my life to believe and to see the impossible.
The unexplained is not necessarily the impossible. You're welcome to your beliefs and feelings of superiority. My belief is that you leave too much room in your life for conclusions based on insufficient evidence.

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Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Guest » August 29th, 2002, 10:43 am

Originally posted by Ben Whiting:
So, Craig, you really had a friend who was cured of HIV by Sai Baba? And I thought he only did crappy little conjuring tricks for gullible hippies!

I'm a regular on the Magiccafe boards, and Craig pretty much says the same thing all the time. If I may paraphrase...

"Any magician who discounts the paranormal is close minded and stupid...I'm smart because I believe in the paranormal."

Craig, you are a gadfly of the worst kind. By all means have your beliefs, but stop punching them down our throats at every available opportunity.

And secondly, stop trying to claim intellectual superiority over us all with your "open-minded" claptrap. It's a poor man who must constantly try and get one up on his fellows.
Firstly, I'm not trying to cram anything down anyone's throat other than THERE IS A MIDDLE GROUND TO SAID ISSUE THAT EITHER EXTREME KEEPS IGNORING/DENYING. I do not claim any kind of intellectual superiority (but thanks for giving me credit). I have attempted (as have others) to point out just how prejudiced the so-called opened minded attitudes of the skeptics world tend to be and how, possibly without realizing they do so, insulting and cruel it has been... downright damning anyone that believes in anything and has the guts to say so.

I happen to know of several noted mentalist, including those that have worked in the Castle, who have had "Paranormal" experiences and refuse to share them openly because of the way "others" in our industry will treat them. One noted dove worker of yesteryear fame built much of his wealth using a pendulum and divining oil wells for JP Ghetty... He rarely speaks of it because of the narrow minded attitudes of most in magic when it comes to such things.

Just as the Skeptic loves to automatically place anyone with any testimony about things spiritual, psychic and/or phenomenal into the same "This person is cracked, a gadfly, etc." category, so the believer must look at all who boast an extreme prejudice in the guise of skepticism and asking when you will be willing to meet us on that middle ground... Smoke & Mirrors are being used on either side of the issue and few are paying attention to the truth that rests in the middle.

Again, via your statements and example, I'm seeing why Robert Nelson, Kreskin and others slowly disassociated with magicians and magic clubs. Bigotry is ugly and like all other "diseases of habit" denial is the first symptom enveloping it.

And Thus Doug's Prophecy comes forth... Now it's my turn... This banter will continue because someone (me) had the nerve to go against the flow of thought assumed by so many that would write my experiences off as being Bull Dung "I just didn't see or remember everything right" but their insights and perspectives are superior simply because they are of the level to redefine God (as in "There isn't one"... after all that would be supernatural, unexplainable, etc.)

In regards to the line above about knowing people that "died" because they thought they were healed... I know about that side too. I'VE NEVER SAID THAT FAKES AND FRAUDS DON'T EXIST. I'VE EVEN ENCOURAGED DIRECT ACTION AGAINST SUCH. I SIMPLY LEAVE ROOM FOR THE PHENOMENAL AND RESPECT FOR PEOPLE'S EXPERIENCES (even if I can see it differently after investigating such.)

I find it amazing how many of you learned individuals have yet to see that side of my posts in almost every instance, every forum I've addressed this issue in, and in my articles. Just goes to prove that even the observant "experts" miss things... don't it? :p

Guest

Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Guest » August 29th, 2002, 1:13 pm

In regards to the line above about knowing people that "died" because they thought they were healed... I know about that side too. I'VE NEVER SAID THAT FAKES AND FRAUDS DON'T EXIST. I'VE EVEN ENCOURAGED DIRECT ACTION AGAINST SUCH. I SIMPLY LEAVE ROOM FOR THE PHENOMENAL AND RESPECT FOR PEOPLE'S EXPERIENCES (even if I can see it differently after investigating such.)

I find it amazing how many of you learned individuals have yet to see that side of my posts in almost every instance, every forum I've addressed this issue in, and in my articles. Just goes to prove that even the observant "experts" miss things... don't it?
[August 29, 2002, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: Craig Browning]
I haven't missed a thing, Mr. Browning, and I do see your side. I leave room for your illogical beliefs, and can show respect for phantasmagoric experiences.

But saying so doesn't make it fact, and I hope you can respect my opinion that your mystical remembrances, and the junk science upon which you are apparently basing your life fall far short of any evidentiary proof.

Randy Campbell

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Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Guest » August 29th, 2002, 1:26 pm

So, Carlos, in answer to your question, John Edward is a fake, but there's a guy named Craig Browning who's a walking Van de Graaf generator, which has been proven beyond question to his own satisfaction.

Guest

Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Guest » August 29th, 2002, 1:38 pm

I learned along time ago not to argue this issue, just to share what I know... you can take a dump on what I know, ASS U ME you have all the answers and no matter what, I'm wrong (and you're calling me arrogant and pious?)

In short Randy, you're retort of being "obvservant" above merely supports everything I said about how closed minded and unforgiving 99% of the skeptics I've met, are.

You would rather pick at what you don't want to accept or agree with, than see the commonality and platform from which the believer and non-believer can work together in a positive way, to "Protect" the consumer/public.

Simply amazes me how blind people are when it comes to anything that might challenge their way of thinking. At least I admit to having a genuine sense of skeptical concern vs. sucking 110% into "the company line"... on that the Gods have blessed me with the ability to see either side of an issue and be a bit more fair on wieghing the matter... that's ALL I've ever encouraged anyone to do.

AND ONE MORE TIME (due to the misquote above) I DO NOT CLAIM ANY SPECIAL ABILITIES... YOU PEOPLE KEEP IMPOSING SUCH ONTO ME BY MISREADING AND/OR ATTEMPTING TO MISREPRESENT WHAT I HAVE SAID/CLAIMED...and I thought it was tough getting reporters to quote you accurately :mad:

Guest

Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Guest » August 29th, 2002, 2:54 pm

Right. Once more, from your web site:

"He has, since a very early age, been able to see and connect to the lives of people he meets, including past-life associations, current and future events."

Seeing into past lives and future events does not constitute a special power in your book. And precisely what would constitute a special power?

You've already made clear that the electrical phenomenon is not a power but a "syndrome" that is a "well-known fact" except to, oh...ALL OF MEDICAL SCIENCE!! But I've granted you the generous concession that you are not alone in this perception and that the alleged phenomenon deserves investigation. You belittle us for not taking your word for it in the absence of hard data. That shows us up as blind and intolerant. Fine. Have a nice life, Sparky.

Guest

Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Guest » August 29th, 2002, 3:35 pm

You would rather pick at what you don't want to accept or agree with, than see the commonality and platform from which the believer and non-believer can work together in a positive way, to "Protect" the consumer/public.
You are full of ambiguous rhetoric, so half the time I find it difficult to understand what you're trying to say. It's starting to seem to me that you are someone who has convinced himself that what he does is somehow not dishonest, and so it's not ripping people off, when in reality that's pretty much what you're doing. I could be wrong, but that's how it appears. On your site, you claim to be the only certified "subconcious analysis reprogramming counselor" in northern Nevada. I can't find anything anywere about SAR. You also claim, on your site, to be a "natural born healer". What exactly are you talking about?

You want to bridge the gap between skeptics and believers? Show PROOF! Don't whine about Randi not being fair - Show PROOF. Come on, you don't need Randi - you'll be on the cover of Time Magazine if you can prove that you or anyone else in the entire world has any sort of paranormal ability. Prove that you're not a charlatan, a conman, a scam artist - kick down with the proof!

Guest

Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Guest » August 29th, 2002, 3:59 pm

If anyone's interested, they can go to newreview.com (click on the words, it'll take you to the article) to see Craig Browning claiming to have predicted the September 11 attacks. That's cute Craig, real cute.

Also in the article, the author writes that Browning "says his psychic readings and premonitions are the real deal." Sounds like a claim of paranormal powers to me.

What's your excuse? Were you misquoted?

Oh, and by the way, how many predictions of future bombings are you planting now so you can take credit for an 'accurate' prediction later?

Bob Cassidy
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Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Bob Cassidy » August 29th, 2002, 5:45 pm

Just to get back to "Crossing over" for a minute--

Here's an exclusive that should set you all straight:

S.W. Erdnase, the mystery man who wrote The Expert at the Card Table, was the surprise guest at the studios of Dr. Bob's Stepping Over, the internationally acclaimed public access cable tv show . He brought with him a Special Message for today's magicians and asked Dr. Bob to send it over to the folks here at Genii.

A partial transcript of the program:
Dr. Bob: Once again I am receiving a message from a lost soul who sped off like a Bat out of Hell down the Highway to Heaven. I get the letters 'S' and W' - it must be Slim Whitman! How about a little "Lost Highway" yodel for the folks here in the studio, Slim?

Erdnase: I am not Slim Whitman. S.W. Erdnase was the pseudonym under which I wrote a book teaching the techniques of advantage play at the card table. Since I was an active practitioner of those techniques, I thought it would be wise to conceal my identity. Accordingly, I instructed my publisher to spell my name backwards.

Dr. Bob: Most of the spooks that pop up here can't even spell it forwards. So that means your real name was E.S. Andrews, right?

Erdnase: Correct.

Dr. Bob: Your name is Edward, am I correct?

Erdnase: My name is Milton. Milton Franklin Andrews.

Dr. Bob: See what I mean folks! They just can't spell. You, sir, are not an E.S. You're an M.F.

Erdnase: That was certainly the opinion of many who had the misfortune to meet me at the gaming tables. But please just call me Milt.

Dr. Bob: We'll get to that in just a minute. But first I'd like to know why your publisher didn't get your name right.

Erdnase: Well, apparently his memory wasn't very good, and after I left his office he asked the Puerto Rican youth whom he employed as a janitor if he remembered what I said my name was. The boy replied, "He ess Andrews."

Dr. Bob: All right Milt. You heard it here first.

NOW DO YOU BELIEVE????

Gotta go - my [censored] is stuck to my forehead.

Best-
Bob Cassidy
And remember, my friends, future events such as these will affect you in the future.-Criswell

Guest

Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Guest » August 29th, 2002, 8:55 pm

Originally posted by David L.:
If anyone's interested, they can go to newreview.com (click on the words, it'll take you to the article) to see Craig Browning claiming to have predicted the September 11 attacks. That's cute Craig, real cute.
No Kidding. Just how hard is it to be psychic AFTER THE FACT?! For example, all this week, I have had the recurring thought, "Karen will be in a car accident." I chalked it up to my insecurities about harm coming to my friend, so I never mentioned it to anyone. Today, I got an e-mail from Karen telling me that she had been in a car accident. She is OK, but the car is gone. This is no lie. It really happend. But if I were to claim that I psychically KNEW it would happen, people would say, "How hard is it to be psychic AFTER THE FACT?!"

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Dustin Stinett
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Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Dustin Stinett » August 29th, 2002, 11:20 pm

Not a day goes by that someone doesn't have a gloomy thought about something or someone, and at different levels of tragedy. I know that I do on occasion, and I doubt seriously if I'm alone here – it's part of human nature. Some of these thoughts will hang on longer than others. 99.99% of the time absolutely nothing bad happens. Then we dismiss our negative “premonitions” and never give them another moment's thought. Then there's that one time: something bad does happen. Then we say, “I knew it! I had a premonition!” It's that one time that we remember – of course – but we never stop to think about the hundreds of “bad feelings” that never came to fruition.

These moments are not psychic events. The one word that describes these times is “chance.”

Dustin

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Matthew Field
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Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Matthew Field » August 30th, 2002, 8:07 am

Originally posted by Bob Cassidy:
You're an M.F.
I am very glad to see the great Bob Cassidy here. I really miss your Magician's Cabal, Bob, and I might have your bong somewhere.

I'm an M.F., too.

Matt Field

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Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Guest » August 30th, 2002, 1:04 pm

Originally posted by David L.:
If anyone's interested, they can go to newreview.com (click on the words, it'll take you to the article) to see Craig Browning claiming to have predicted the September 11 attacks. That's cute Craig, real cute.

Also in the article, the author writes that Browning "says his psychic readings and premonitions are the real deal." Sounds like a claim of paranormal powers to me.

What's your excuse? Were you misquoted?

Oh, and by the way, how many predictions of future bombings are you planting now so you can take credit for an 'accurate' prediction later?
I did, live on the air in August of last year, deliver a "prediction" that came true exactly four weeks after the interview (as was said live)... I do not call it anything other than what I stated on the air... a hunch, a feeling, what I and others were having dreams of... it is not a claim of supernatural power of any kind. It is a sense of awareness... even Jack Dean brought out how, if one were to study the ebbs & flows of society, news, etc. you will increase your hit ratio... do I consider that knowledge "Trickery" ABSOLUTELY NOT! This same thing was taught in the ancient mystery schools and is known to be part of legitimate "Psychic" development.

BEING A PSYCHIC HAS LITTLE TO NOTHING TO DO WITH HAVING EXTRAORDINARY POWERS. I has a heck of alot to do with learning how to pay attention (even subconsciously) to one's surroundings. Ironically, Edgar Cayce even pointed that out, promoting the idea that anyone could learn how to cultivate these SKILLS through natural action. I DO NOT CLAIM ANYTHING OTHER.

Being able to look into and see into people... including "Past lives"... Well, most of the world's philosophies (including Christianity, up into the mid-5th century) believe in, support and teach the concept of Reincarnation... of course there is no "acceptable" way to prove this to the bull-headed and obnoxious, but I do believe in it for numerous reasons (experiences), I do not need to defend myself on it. However, I have used known techniques to tape into such for clients (some of it straight out of Richard Webster and Ormond McGill's notes)... Same with SAR... as far as I could find, NO ONE IN NORTHERN NEVEADA EVEN HEARD OF SAR LET ALONE USED IT! So why not advertise it? If you were certified in something you'd push it... wouldn't you?

READINGS... who here does them?

Oh! Most of you don't... ironically many Mentalist do and use the shut-eye market exactly the way Nelson and others taught... YOU EXPLOIT AND TAKE CREDIT WHEREVER, HOWEVER, AND WHENEVER YOU CAN! Mail Order Readings have been encouraged in the past few decades by the likes of Herb Dewey, Richard Webster and a reasonably large handful of others... Live, one-on-one Readings are a primary part of home Psyhcic Parties... In EVERY CASE the men and women who are success in these markets DO NOT USE THE COLD READING, MAGICIAN'S TRICKS, BILLET B.S., etc... They follow the esoteric formulas that came with the deck or system they do Readings with... Thus, they are giving LEGIT READINGS vs. Psycho-Babble crap the average shut eye can and will see through.

Any of you that want to work a psychic fair side by side with me... you doing your tricks and me working cold on the same people, come on in! I can assure you that over 2/3rds of the people that get a reading from a fake KNOW IT... they're suspicious from the start.

Yes, my web site does elude to certain things... I am marketing the shut eye market because I've yet to have anyone in magic/show biz reach out and help me move into markets other than. I am honest with buyers in that I have never hidden my involvement in stage magic adn have, more than once, done Mental Magic/Bizarre type routines for shut eye clients simply to show them the difference... I HAVE NEVER USED SLIGHT OF HAND, IMPRESSION BOARDS OR ANY OF THAT OTHER CRAP IN 25 YEARS OF DOING READINGS.

The "Natural Healer" line... sorry, but I do believe we all have the ability to heal... I don't mean making the blind see or the deaf hear... I mean helping people learn how to love themselves, change directions in their lives and become productive individuals. As a counselor I have watched dozens, if not hundreds of such transformations. In that I am a man of exceptionally strong spiritual belief, I will not negate my belief that "God" (whatever you want to call it) uses me... works through me. Of course, I don't expect the Godless to accept or acknowledge that... I believe the lines of attack shared throughout this thread sustain exactly where many of you come from on the issue of faith... you might be religious but you aren't spiritual in the least... atheistic, more than likely... hypocrits? Most probably!

It is no wonder so many Christian ministers condemn stage magic or trickery in any form today... the godlessness that has been rooted and cultivated and embraced by our kind is criminal not to mention immoral... and people want to call me evil and soulless? At least I believe in God and the power thereof.

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Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Dustin Stinett » August 30th, 2002, 1:22 pm

Originally posted by Craig Browning:
READINGS... who here does them?
Does it count that I used to when I was in school? I did it to impress the girls – and it worked quite well (nothing else about me impressed them, that's for sure). I would have girls come to me because I had done a reading for their friend, etc. But there was this one time (no, it wasn't in “band camp” but I was REALLY tempted to write that) when I decided to bend a key for the young lady as well. That backfired big time. She threw the key down like it was white-hot and shrieked that I was the devil.

Oh well – just another lonely night for Dustin

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Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Larry Horayne » August 30th, 2002, 3:25 pm

If he had any more plants in the audience they would have to tape the show in a green house. Oh, Michael Jackson thinks HE'S real, too.

Seriously, check the 1/2 second disclaimer at the end of each program. "Mr. Edwards rely's on 3rd party information....."

www.SandySinger.com
A DATE WITH SINATRA

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Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Guest » August 30th, 2002, 3:25 pm

BEING A PSYCHIC HAS LITTLE TO NOTHING TO DO WITH HAVING EXTRAORDINARY POWERS. I has a heck of alot to do with learning how to pay attention (even subconsciously) to one's surroundings. Ironically, Edgar Cayce even pointed that out, promoting the idea that anyone could learn how to cultivate these SKILLS through natural action. I DO NOT CLAIM ANYTHING OTHER.
I see, you've redefined the term 'psychic' in a way that allows you to claim to be one, and at the same time not feel as though you're claiming that you have some sort of paranormal ability. Well, I've got news for you, 99.999999% of people think you're talking about something paranormal when you use the term psychic. Do you really believe otherwise?

If one has a problem with the moral implications of what one does for a living, then one shouldn't do it. It seems to me that you have a problem with the moral implications of claiming to have the special power that is normally associated with being psychic. So you've found a way to rationalize it to yourself so that you can continue doing what you do.

Sometimes the conman cons himself.

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Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Guest » August 30th, 2002, 4:15 pm

Originally posted by David L.:
BEING A PSYCHIC HAS LITTLE TO NOTHING TO DO WITH HAVING EXTRAORDINARY POWERS. I has a heck of alot to do with learning how to pay attention (even subconsciously) to one's surroundings. Ironically, Edgar Cayce even pointed that out, promoting the idea that anyone could learn how to cultivate these SKILLS through natural action. I DO NOT CLAIM ANYTHING OTHER.
I see, you've redefined the term 'psychic' in a way that allows you to claim to be one, and at the same time not feel as though you're claiming that you have some sort of paranormal ability. Well, I've got news for you, 99.999999% of people think you're talking about something paranormal when you use the term psychic. Do you really believe otherwise?

If one has a problem with the moral implications of what one does for a living, then one shouldn't do it. It seems to me that you have a problem with the moral implications of claiming to have the special power that is normally associated with being psychic. So you've found a way to rationalize it to yourself so that you can continue doing what you do.

Sometimes the conman cons himself.
Sorry... not my definition... you might check with Karl Jung, Freud, other mignions of early Psychology & human mental health, the Greek/Roman & Hebrew Mystery teachers (including St. Paul who make clear the difference between being Psychic vs. Pnuematic)... and of course Edgar Cayce himself.

"Supernatural" as part of the idea behind what it means to be "psychic" is but a very small part of the meaning and only a matter of "recent" (past hundred years or so) inferrence. Same applies to the term "Occult" and the "assumed" idea that it refers to things demonic... again, only a small piece of the pie. The primary meaning of the word is "Hidden" or "Unknowable" it is used regularly in the medical and legal worlds.

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Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Guest » August 31st, 2002, 3:08 am

I just checked out this board and this thread after reading some of Craig's postings on other boards. One interesting thing I noted here:

Originally posted by Craig Browning:
I HAVE NEVER USED SLIGHT OF HAND, IMPRESSION BOARDS OR ANY OF THAT OTHER CRAP IN 25 YEARS OF DOING READINGS.
And yet here's a quote of his from another board in a thread about the recently-released Richey Technique:

I've used the Richie Technique for about 3 years now. If IS NOT practical for a Q&A type act but rather designed for one-on-one Readings. As such it is AWESOME!

I and the person that introduced this concept to me have both used this method at shut-eye events and literally stolen business from all the other Readers (with patrons paying as much as double the going rate for a 3 question session.)

DO NOTE: Like so much of "what works" in this business, it is exceptionally SIMPLE and you'll probably a.) kick yourself; and b.) want to complain about the price. BUT DON'T! This little ditty will pay for itself in less than an hour IF YOU USE IT CORRECTLY!...
Another quote from further down the page, in response to someone who asked for a description of the effect of the Richey Technique:

I just outlined what the "routine" is... a one-on-one READING in which you answer three questions. It's clean, it has fooled the magic world for decades, and when used properly it can make you filthy freak'n rich!
And from further down the thread:

[The Richey Technique] is a "trick" that hosts close kinship to things like the Mental Epic or other 3-way predictions. However, I still stand on the fact that I and others have used it in Reading type situations and done very well with it (and I'm rather surprised Millard didn't clock me on the fact that I admitted to using a trick for some Reading sessions ... it's not something I'm known to do.)
Craig, how do you accout for this contradiction? And please don't subject us to any hairsplitting Clintonian assertions that what you said was technically true because the Richey technique doesn't use sleight of hand, doesn't require an impression device, and isn't, in your opinion, crap.

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Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Guest » August 31st, 2002, 7:24 am

Very simple... I know the difference between the times I'm doing actual Readings vs. working as an Entertainer...

If I have a sign on my table reading "Psychic Entertainment * Readings $10.00 for 10-minutes" or along that course, I'm not defrauding anyone and I'm admitting up front that I'm using a "trick"... I'm there to "ENTERTAIN". If I'm stating directly that I'm doing straight Tarot, Rune, Palm or other types of Readings based on the esoteric sciences associated with said system...THAT'S WHAT I'M DOING!

Yes, I do billets and I'm dang good at it! I've written at least two manuscripts on the topic.

Does this mean I use such cheats when doing "straight" work?

NOT AT ALL!

Yes! I will "cheat" when doing Readings @ a Home Party, Corporate gigs, etc. THAT'S WHAT I'M THERE FOR... TO ENTERTAIN. However, if I'm working a salon or coffee house or even a New Age book store as their Reader... well, I'll gladly give you my full week's income if you catch me using any such techniques or find such devices in the room... that's mony you will never see because I DO NOT USE THEM.

Yes! I am doing a lecture in October for Andy Leviss' get together on how to do routines that mimic Psychic styled Readings. I've also done a 8 part series @ Visions on how to do "straight" Readings without trickery, tipping some of my more "exclusive" points of perspective that most (such as the critics in this forum) have rarely, if ever, given themselves the opportunity to put into place, let alone considered using. Yet, my contemporaries who also do Readings or work a strong Q&A from the stage, have found these insights to be "priceless!"

I have lines I do not cross or mix... I actually have a moral/ethical fiber that prevents me from hustling folks and taking advantage of them on the intentional level (I can't keep a straight face to save my life when I know I'm doing something mischievious... it's that simple.) I'm not trying to have my cake & eat it too... I know where I stand, those that know me know that I do not abuse my role or knowledge for the sake of gain (gesh! If I did I'd be exceptionally wealthy and trust me, I'm far from that!)

Sorry gents... you can nit pick all you want. Seems that's what magicians like doing when someone disagrees with them, let alone admitting that they believe in something... like THE POWER OF GOD... but hey, it's only superstition and Hollywood's bad portrayal of our art that insists that everyone in it is an Antheist/Agnostic and adherent to Satan... right? Our actions, attitudes and ruthless lack of consideration for people's belief has nothing to do with that image (so let the fundamentalist know so they stop causing problems for other performers.)

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Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Guest » September 2nd, 2002, 5:39 am

Well, I'm glad we cleared that up.

Bob Klase
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Re: John Edward, Crossing Over

Postby Bob Klase » September 6th, 2002, 2:02 am

to see Craig Browning claiming to have predicted the September 11 attacks.
I did, live on the air in August of last year, deliver a "prediction" that came true exactly four weeks after the interview (as was said live)...
Is there a video or accurate transcript available? What *exactly* did you predict? A vague tragedy? An airplane crash? A lot of people dying?

Did you predict a specific date, time, month, year? An exact location? The event as it actually happened? Did you predict anything that couldn't be applied to a dozen other things that happened in 4 weeks after the interview?


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