Beginner seeking guidance in mentalism and cold reading

Instead of mentally projecting your mentalism thoughts, type them here.
Guest

Beginner seeking guidance in mentalism and cold reading

Postby Guest » February 24th, 2004, 10:35 am

Greetings all,

I'm an avid hypnotherapist and neurolinguistic practitioner, and have always wanted to add to my skill set by learning mentalism and cold reading. After scouring the net for some time, I have found so many books on the subjects that my head is spinning and I'm really confused as to what would be the best books for a beginner to buy, or are books the way to go?

Here was what I was thinking, let me know what you think about this:

for mentalism:
13 steps to mentalism by corinda

for cold reading:
Completely Cold by Kenton Knepper

Now here are my thoughts thus far:
The 13 steps seems pretty solid, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't antiquated or if there were better suggestions for a first time book.

The completely cold: Well it almost seems to me that this is a book meant for pro's already in the field who want to learn a new way to do cold reading. But at the same time there's the possibility that it might be best to try this method because my mind isn't already set in stone on certain beliefs about the techniques, so I would be a blank slate so to speak.

Any thoughts?

thanks in advance,
david

Guest

Re: Beginner seeking guidance in mentalism and cold reading

Postby Guest » February 24th, 2004, 1:37 pm

Read the chapter on readings in T.A. Water's book, "Mind, Myth, and Magick", and you will know in what direction and how far you want to go, in doing this. Also has some references to other books/authors.

Guest

Re: Beginner seeking guidance in mentalism and cold reading

Postby Guest » February 24th, 2004, 11:12 pm

David,
In my opinion.....for what it's worth 13 steps is great, Beckers "Stunners Plus" has a TON of fantastic mentalism, Lee Earle's "M.I.N.D" has a huge amount of good stuff, "Theatre of the Mind" by Barrie Richardson has great stuff and finally for cold reading IF you want to really get into it seriously get Ian Rowland's book "The full facts book of Cold reading". It can be purchased through him at www.ianrowland.com . It's not "cheap" but after wading throuh lots of other "cold reading bibles" this has been the best so far for me.(thank you for turning me on to it Rick Maue where ever you are)
Hope this helps.
KW

Guest

Re: Beginner seeking guidance in mentalism and cold reading

Postby Guest » February 24th, 2004, 11:28 pm

Since you are an NLP practitioner, you might be interested in some of the material in Derren Brown's first book. There is some significant NLP methodology there.

As far as cold reading, I'm not an expert in this area, but can tell you my experience with it. Last year, I was coerced into doing a cold reading with only a couple hours' preparation. I used the material in 13 STEPS TO MENTALISM and I was a smash hit.

Corinda is an extraordinary writer, and writes to the concerns of the working magician. Anneman is a passable writer, but his effects are superb.

However, there are ways in which those two volumes have aged, and so it's important to study at least a couple new mentalism tomes. I like Barrie Richardson's THEATRE OF THE MIND and T.A. Waters's MIND, MYTH, AND MAGICK.

Apart from these mentalists, I have found the psychological subtleties of Banachek to be altogether different from the other books mentioned. He is a master at using virtually nothing and using it to accomplish absolute miracles. The economy of this is stunning.

Max Maven, too, is a fine mind in mentalism. His encyclopedic knowledge is obvious in everything he writes about, and he uses language in devious and wonderful ways.

The great thing about mentalism is that once you've learned those tricks, they will always be with you, even more so than straight magic. More happens in the mind, and so there's less dexterity and motor skills to lose.

Guest

Re: Beginner seeking guidance in mentalism and cold reading

Postby Guest » February 24th, 2004, 11:31 pm

Before suggesting any books or titles i would like to know what are you planing to do with your cold deading/mentalism skills?

Joe Z
Posts: 41
Joined: September 18th, 2008, 7:40 am

Re: Beginner seeking guidance in mentalism and cold reading

Postby Joe Z » February 25th, 2004, 10:22 am

If you really want to learn about how to perform a credible reading, there are far better resources to spend your money on than Completely Cold. I recommend the works of Richard Webster (Quick and Effective Cold Reading), Herb Dewey (Red Hot Cold Reading), Ron Martin (Tarot Reader's Notebook), Ford Kross (Out of the Deep Freeze), and Brad Henderson (The Dance) for starters. Unfortunately, the Herb Dewey book is out of print and hard to come by.

In addition, look into such works as Gail Sheehy's Passages series and many of the more contemporary books concerning the subjects of human psychology and sociology. Finally, a visit to the New Age section of your local bookstore will provide a wide range of information concerning divination systems like palmistry, card reading, numerology, runes, etc.

Completely Cold can at best be considered a meager supplement to what one really needs to know to present a convincing psychic reading. Repeated use of such an unrefined, simplified, and basically unintelligent methodology will only reveal the user to be a trickster using non-specific words with little to offer an astute sitter.

Psychic reading is a craft that must be approached very carefully and methodically, and then practised on a consistent basis if one is to attain the proficiency needed to be considered adept in divination, whether pseudo or otherwise.

Joe Z.

Guest

Re: Beginner seeking guidance in mentalism and cold reading

Postby Guest » February 25th, 2004, 10:48 am

Originally posted by discohornet:

for mentalism:
13 steps to mentalism by corinda

for cold reading:
Completely Cold by Kenton Knepper
I have no advice on Competely Cold because I have not seen it. As for 13 steps, it seems to be a staple of many mentalists.

Regarding actual Cold Reading: So many books can give you the path of words to say, but I truly believe that "The Dance" by Brad Henderson really covers the 'how to deliver or say the message'. A must have companion for any mentalism book you choose.

Guest

Re: Beginner seeking guidance in mentalism and cold reading

Postby Guest » February 25th, 2004, 11:48 am

Do bear in mind that some folks have a built in prejudice when it comes to certain personalities and their personal philosophy about Psychic-styled work (I know, I'm one of the one's they love to hate.)BUT, you could check our my series at On Line-VISIONS... the earliest issues featuring my Psychic Perspectives colomn. You might find some points of view NOT shared in some of the more "approved" materials.

I did not notice any listings in the above posts mentioning Ian Rowlands book on said subject. Unfortunately my mind is drawing a blank on the title but I'm certain someone can point you in the right direction to get a copy... then again, based on some of the BS that's been happening of late around Ian's proposed lecture tour, you may be putting your life in peril in the asking. Ian is one of those really mean guys that exposed some boogus/antiquated "secrets" on Tv some time back and as an end result the fickle fraternities of magic have sought to ruin him... at least here in the States. :whack:

Guest

Re: Beginner seeking guidance in mentalism and cold reading

Postby Guest » February 25th, 2004, 12:33 pm

Yes Craig, I also forgot to mention Ian. It is a very good book and I too do not remember the name.

Joe Z
Posts: 41
Joined: September 18th, 2008, 7:40 am

Re: Beginner seeking guidance in mentalism and cold reading

Postby Joe Z » February 25th, 2004, 1:56 pm

The Rowland book is called "The Full Facts on Cold Reading." While Full Facts does pull together a large amount of material and strategems that characterize the magician/skeptic approach to this craft, it ignores such essentials as the necessity to learn a recognized divination system.

Credible "cold reading" skills consist of more than canned patter and contrived strategies.

Joe Z.

Guest

Re: Beginner seeking guidance in mentalism and cold reading

Postby Guest » February 25th, 2004, 2:53 pm

I know Ian's duplication/demonstration/expose,(your choice)of group cold-reading, did not make a number very happy, but if there is a movement, to "ruin" Ian, it was not evident at The Magic Castle, last month, where his lecture was very well attended, including by one well-known mentalist we all know. I have no use for "magicians" who hide behind the mask of the "skeptic", to do expose', but when a mutual friend and Ian visited me last year, we enjoyed our conversation that afternoon. Perhaps if I had known more his rubbing elbows with those in the "skeptic" world, I would have felt differently, but fortunately, we were ignorant of reasons, not to enjoy the day.

Guest

Re: Beginner seeking guidance in mentalism and cold reading

Postby Guest » February 25th, 2004, 3:44 pm

Wow, some great responses here guys. I thank each and every one of you who has shared their thoughts on this. I will check out the books mentioned and go with my gut feeling when choosing one or two to start out with.

As for Yaniv's question, what my intention is with learning this material, it's two fold really. For one, my curiosity of the field is intense right now. After all, I spend a great deal of time with my clients using techniques akin to sleight of mouth, why not develop it even further? Another aspect would be to enhance my stage show. I began doing stage hypnosis a while back and this would simply add to the experience, IMO.

As for cold reading, I spend alot of time intuiting a person's thoughts. I use vague language all the time, not necessarily for it's cold reading angle, but more so to create a trance. I think developing cold reading skills would definitely enhance what I already do...

Guest

Re: Beginner seeking guidance in mentalism and cold reading

Postby Guest » February 26th, 2004, 11:12 am

Cold reading and it's use is NOT the same as "doing a reading" for a client. You have already stated that you work as a hypnotherpaist and as such you should already be aware of the focus between clinet (sitter) and therapist (reader). Doing a reading is NOT about you, it is about your clinet. It is not about throwing out vague generalities but instead is about the focus on your client, their needs AND the realtionship/spiritual connection that you establish between you. There is a real give and take with this relationship and there truly is no need to resort to "cold reading" as such in doing an actual reading.

That said, cold reading is a skill that will help a mentalist immensley in their work. When you are put on the spot and asked to "tell me what I am thinking now", it gives you the ability to describe the person and what IS on their mind and what is going on with them. It is a very powerful weapon for the mentalist but a good "reader" doesn't have to rely on that alone.

PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
AB Stagecraft
http://www.mindguy.com/store
Supplying unique mentalism world-wide

Guest

Re: Beginner seeking guidance in mentalism and cold reading

Postby Guest » February 26th, 2004, 1:01 pm

Brad Henderson's 'The Dance' is well worth getting, and contains an embarassment of riches.

Guest

Re: Beginner seeking guidance in mentalism and cold reading

Postby Guest » February 26th, 2004, 3:44 pm

Originally posted by Paul Alberstat:
There is a real give and take with this relationship and there truly is no need to resort to "cold reading" as such in doing an actual reading.
After looking back at my response I can see where you felt the need to make this observation. In my therapeutic world I have no issue or aim to use either cold reading or mentalism. It is out on my stage work I thought this would be valuable.

in other words what I meant to say was, I'm already efficient in magic behind closed doors with a client, so why not develop a stage presence for more public displays, and use techniques such as mentalism and cold reading to add to that presence.

Guest

Re: Beginner seeking guidance in mentalism and cold reading

Postby Guest » February 27th, 2004, 10:15 am

Originally posted by discohornet:
Originally posted by Paul Alberstat:
[b]There is a real give and take with this relationship and there truly is no need to resort to "cold reading" as such in doing an actual reading.
After looking back at my response I can see where you felt the need to make this observation. In my therapeutic world I have no issue or aim to use either cold reading or mentalism. It is out on my stage work I thought this would be valuable.

in other words what I meant to say was, I'm already efficient in magic behind closed doors with a client, so why not develop a stage presence for more public displays, and use techniques such as mentalism and cold reading to add to that presence. [/b]
PLEASE before you do another thing in this direction, go to this month's OnLine VISIONS and check out Kenton's article about becoming a Mentalist just so you can get on the current bandwagon. You'll be doing everyone a major favor!

Mentalism is NOT in any way the same as magic. Though they are kindred arts, they are miles apart when it comes to the philosophy of performance and demonstration. This is a reality that for some reason "Magicians" refuse to accept and thus, our world has become inuandated with some exceptionally bad -- terrible! Mentalism.

Paul and Joe are 100% on the money as well, in what they've pointed out when it comes to Cold Readings vs. actual Readings. I couldn't have stated things any better.

Guest

Re: Beginner seeking guidance in mentalism and cold reading

Postby Guest » February 29th, 2004, 7:39 pm

For a beginning mentalist the 13 steps is fantastic.
However I am not sure that cold reading is for "beginners"
It really is the most advanced form of mentalism you can do in my opinion. Of course since you have experience in a hypnotherapy situation you can probably hack it even though it really is not the same thing.

I have done thousands of readings so I think I am in a position to advise on the best material to study.

Just like David Groves I do recommend the cold reading section in the 13 Steps and I have often been puzzled that nobody ever mentions it.

I am afraid that I cannot get excited about the Kenton Knepper book. It leaves me "completely cold". Most experienced readers agree that this book is virtually worthless. This is about the only thing they agree on, by the way.

I am ambivalent about the Ian Rowland book. It is very difficult for an experienced reader to be objective about this book since it is written in a way that would not endear itself to a professional psychic. That is why you will find that experienced readers will show antagonism to this work.

I will grit my teeth however and admit that it is well written and has useful information for a beginner. However it is by no means complete and just like the 13 steps section it will be limited in its scope.

I expect because of your profession you have limited time for study. You will therefore have to be selective in what you read, I imagine.

I would suggest that if you want to learn the Tarot you get a little book by Joe Riding on the subject called "Tarot Made Easy"

I consider it to be the best book BAR NONE on the subject especially if you have limited time. Joe promises that you can learn the Tarot in 7 days if you read it. To my amazement at the time I did learn it in 7 days just as he promised!

You MUST get every single thing you can lay your hands on by Richard Webster. This is not practical advice of course since he has written about 80 books! Start with "Quick and Effective Cold Reading" though. This is about palmistry and will get you started.

I would of course be remiss if I did not recommend what I consider the BEST TRAINING for cold reading in the industry.

That is the video course by Mark Lewis. I know the author personally. The chap is quite brilliant.

This course is not spoken about by magicians because it is little known. However it really is the BEST. I will stand it against ANYTHING that is out there.

Naturally I am biased but I am 100% sincere when I make this claim. It must be remembered that I no longer make any revenue from this.

Contact me privately and I will tell you where you can get the course. I have nothing to do with the marketing but I can help you with some details about it.

I sincerely wish you luck in your studies of this fascinating art.

Mark Lewis
www.marklewisentertainment.com

Guest

Re: Beginner seeking guidance in mentalism and cold reading

Postby Guest » March 2nd, 2004, 3:29 am

Hi,

The Audio CD and Book \'The Gentle Art of Cold Reading\' by Lee Earle is also wellworth the $25. Teaches you the basics of Cold Reading, Plus equips you with a lot of information on presenting the same.

Lee also shares his personal personal experiences which are also very helpful... IMHO it is a good place to start...

Guest

Re: Beginner seeking guidance in mentalism and cold reading

Postby Guest » March 9th, 2004, 11:12 am

Mentalism is NOT in any way the same as magic. Though they are kindred arts, they are miles apart when it comes to the philosophy of performance and demonstration. This is a reality that for some reason "Magicians" refuse to accept and thus, our world has become inuandated with some exceptionally bad -- terrible! Mentalism.
Interesting view point. I think the only difference is presentation, but hey what do I know? I have seen mentalists use magic effects and magicians use mentalist effects all with great success. The predjudice of those seeking to firm up the line between the two seems to be proliferated by those wanting to pass off mentalism as a legitimate power rather than a form of entertainment. If that's your thing, great, but to generally pan mentalism used by magicians or visa-versa seems a bit misguided. There maybe a portion of the population that accepts mentalism as a supernatural power, but I think more recognize it's connection to magic than you might think. Peace out. :cool:


Return to “Mentalism & Mental Magic”