Hypnotism Magic

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Hypnotism Magic

Postby Spellbinder » November 8th, 2021, 11:32 am

Rats! Just as I got ready to express my opinion of Hypnotism and Mentalism, the topic got locked. I hope this topic doesn't suffer the same fate.
Image

Notice that the wheels only spin when you are NOT looking at them directly. As soon as you focus on one, it stops.

It's easy to mess with someone's mind when using a collection of pseudo-hypnosis spinning wheels and diagrams and mixing them in with magic (or who cares? Mentalism!).

https://www.magicnook.com/WizJ30/WIZJ30-08Hypno-Trix.htm
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Re: Hypnotism Magic

Postby Tarotist » November 8th, 2021, 3:29 pm

That reminds me. The most worthy book "The Royal Road to Stage Hypnotism" is up and running. It is the most streetwise book ever written on stage hypnosis. I know the author personally and can confirm that he is a genius of the first magnitude.

Well, almost up and running anyway....................(It seems you have to wait another week according to Barnes and Noble)

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-ro ... 1140484011

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Re: Hypnotism Magic

Postby MagicbyAlfred » November 8th, 2021, 6:52 pm

Tarotist, that's great! And sold by Barnes & Noble, no less. Congratulations!

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Re: Hypnotism Magic

Postby Tarotist » November 8th, 2021, 7:55 pm

Oh, I have lots of books on Barnes and Noble! Or at least I think I do. I shall have to check. I do know that they sell "Streetwise Tarot". I suspect they sell my Annotated Royal Road to Card Magic too but I am not entirely sure. One moment please while I check.

The moment has passed. It is indeed here:

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-an ... 1138895774

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Re: Hypnotism Magic

Postby MagicbyAlfred » November 9th, 2021, 8:16 am

Tarotist wrote:Oh, I have lots of books on Barnes and Noble! Or at least I think I do. I shall have to check. I do know that they sell "Streetwise Tarot". I suspect they sell my Annotated Royal Road to Card Magic too but I am not entirely sure. One moment please while I check.

The moment has passed. It is indeed here:

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-an ... 1138895774


That's fabulous. I can't wait to see the movie!

Speaking of books, here's a little riddle to brighten up the day (or not):
"How many books can Dora fit into her empty backpack?"

One. After that it's not empty.

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Re: Hypnotism Magic

Postby Tarotist » November 9th, 2021, 1:42 pm

Does anyone here actually do any hypnotism?

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Re: Hypnotism Magic

Postby Tarotist » November 9th, 2021, 9:06 pm

Obviously not................

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Re: Hypnotism Magic

Postby Spellbinder » November 9th, 2021, 10:25 pm

Magic is a performing art. Hypnotism, if it exists, is not. When someone turns Hypnotism into a performing art, it is about as real as magic is.
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Re: Hypnotism Magic

Postby Edward Pungot » November 10th, 2021, 9:20 am

During the end of senior high school festivities I remember them hiring a hypnotist. While it was entertaining watching the jocks and prom queens and the other "cool" kids go up to assist and sit down on the chairs and "go under" the spell of the hypnotist, there was also something quite disturbing and dark about the whole thing. People who willingly give up complete control of their minds and bodies and those who are able to induce such a state on others under the guise of "entertainment" is inherently dark and occultish in my opinion. And to add to the creepiness factor, that all actions and memory of the events that transpired on stage can be erased and forgotten by the participants is a dark art in every sense of its implications. Granted, it's "light entertainment" and done in front of a supervised environment, but it's still dark nonetheless.

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Re: Hypnotism Magic

Postby MagicbyAlfred » November 10th, 2021, 9:37 am

I have never done hypnosis, either in the context of actually trying to hypnotize anyone, or quasi-hypnosis in the format of pretending to be/acting the part a hypnotist to entertain and/or intrigue people. Nor have I ever sought the services of a hypnotist, or attended a hypnosis show. I suppose I will need to acquire Tarotist's book to understand more about hypnosis as a performance art, and the related psychological and theatrical aspects.

But it seems to me that people would be fascinated with a hypnosis show, as people are generally fascinated with and entertained by observing other people, especially in the context of hypnosis, which is intrinsically fascinating. After all, it is the audience members who are, by definition, the focal point of the show/demonstrations. People can relate because we all "live in" a mind, and have thoughts and emotions.

I won't quibble Edward's characterization about hypnosis being dark and disturbing, although a counter-argument could be made, but being dark and disturbing doesn't mean people won't be drawn to it, seek it out, and greatly enjoy it. I mean, look at the content of hundreds, if not thousands, of certain movies.

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Re: Hypnotism Magic

Postby Tarotist » November 10th, 2021, 11:07 am

I find watching most magicians doing card tricks is dark and disturbing but I suppose I mustn't be cynical. What poor Edward doesn't realise is that nobody on stage is under hypnosis in the first place! Just a load of daft people either pretending they are hypnotised or at
best deluding themselves that they are! That is the real secret of stage hypnosis. Shhh.............don't tell anyone I said so.

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Re: Hypnotism Magic

Postby Edward Pungot » November 10th, 2021, 11:20 am

Don't take it the wrong way. I think if given the option, most organizers would choose a hypnotist over a magician. It is inherently more interesting and entertaining for reasons pointed out by Alfred. But it's one thing to manipulate cards and coins, and altogether a whole new playing field when you start manipulating people. I suppose public figures have been known to mesmerize the public and sway them in one direction or another. Hypnotists are just more open about the whole thing and make a farce and spectacle of it.

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Re: Hypnotism Magic

Postby Tarotist » November 10th, 2021, 11:30 am

Nobody will do anything they don't want to do under hypnosis. That applies whether the trance state is real or not. Oddly enough when doing card and coin tricks I believe it is ESSENTIAL to manipulate people and I have preached this over and over again!

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Re: Hypnotism Magic

Postby Tarotist » November 10th, 2021, 4:39 pm

Anyway, you can judge for yourselves whether these people are really in trance or not. I have no particular evidence either way. All that is really important is whether the audience is entertained or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQRIAp7OYSE

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Re: Hypnotism Magic

Postby MagicbyAlfred » November 11th, 2021, 12:51 pm

Tarotist wrote:Anyway, you can judge for yourselves whether these people are really in trance or not. I have no particular evidence either way. All that is really important is whether the audience is entertained or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQRIAp7OYSE


That was interesting to watch, to say the least. It wouldn't surprise me if the subjects truly were in a hypnotic trance, given how stoic and impervious they seemed in the face of people incessantly laughing hysterically at them. And unless the esteemed hypnotist somehow managed to hypnotize the onlookers in the audience, or they were ringers from L & L (I jest), there's no question that they were genuinely entertained. Well that's all for now, gotta go book a flight to the Canary Islands...
,

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Re: Hypnotism Magic

Postby Tarotist » November 11th, 2021, 1:28 pm

That is actually a very good point that I confess never occured to me. I do concede that it is indeed a point in favour of the trance theory. You would think that if they weren't hypnotised it would be far too much of a temptation for them to giggle a little somewhat at their own silliness. Food for thought anyway.

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Re: Hypnotism Magic

Postby Tarotist » November 13th, 2021, 10:00 pm

There is even more food for thought here. The book is up and running. Modesty is never an affliction I have been silly enough to suffer from so I wish to inform the multitude that this book has a couple of features that no other stage hypnotism book has. One is that it is concise and only tells you what you need to know in order to put on a good show. It leaves out all the usual "scientific" waffle about "hypnosis" that you see in books and the other feature is that it goes against standard wisdom on many points. Anyway here it i

https://www.marklewisentertainment.com/ ... cians.html

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Re: Hypnotism Magic

Postby MagicbyAlfred » November 14th, 2021, 7:53 am

I had an instructional VHS many moons ago, entitled "Million Dollar Mysteries," featuring James Lewis. (not to be confused with the illustrious Mark of the same surname). One of the routines on there was Lewis's variation of The Professor's Nightmare, which he called "Hypnotizing the Professor." He also wrote up the routine in a self-published 28-page book/pamphlet entitled, Thinking About Magic (1985), illustrated by Greg Manwaring. Additionally, I'm told it may have been included in James Lewis's lecture notes.

If I remember correctly, the video showed Lewis first performing the routine for an audience (and quite entertainingly so), which was then followed up with a teaching sequence. It's a great example of how a hypnosis theme and patter can be used advantageously in conjunction with performing magic. In this particular case, his schtick centered around "hypnotizing" the audience in order to create/control their perceptions of what was happening with the ropes, and then removing the trance to account for the return to reality -- all done in a light-heated, tongue-in-cheek manner. It was a masterfully constructed and performed routine.

Clearly, hypnosis provides fertile thematic and theatrical ground for the performance of magic and mentalism. There is the lovely added dimension that the magic is being worked not just upon the props, but also upon the audience themselves by altering their reality. This adds an emotional hook and engagement and involvement, taking them from merely being spectators to being participants. In fact, this thread has me thinking that I may take a shot at reconstructing my Copper, Silver, Brass routine using hypnosis to account for the wondrous effects the spectators are perceiving.

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Re: Hypnotism Magic

Postby Tarotist » November 14th, 2021, 2:03 pm

Oddly enough I use a hypnotism theme when I do Design for Laughter from the Royal Road to Card Magic. I say to the selector of the card, "Have you ever been hypnotised? You've never been hypnotised? Well, I am going to hypnotise you. But don't worry---I have a new system of hypnotism---it's very quick, it's very streamlined. Just watch my fingers with your right eye. (I snap my fingers here) Now your left eye (snap fingers again) --now both eyes at the same time! (snap again). OK. You are now hypnotised!" I then turn to the other people saying, "She looks like she is in a bit of a trance doesn't she?" This gets quite a laugh. I then continue, "You might not believe you are hypnotised but you are. Say you were to cut this pack once and once only and you cut straight to your card it might not prove you were hypnotised but it would be fantastic wouldn't it?" The answer is invariably yes. I then get a laugh by saying, "Yes, well I am not going to do it -----it would be far too difficult!"

Even though the whole thing is done tongue in cheek I was once shocked by a girl actually going into hypnosis for real when I did this! I had to tell her---"It's OK. I was only kidding----you are not really hypnotised!" and then she came out of it to my great relief!

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Re: Hypnotism Magic

Postby MagicbyAlfred » November 14th, 2021, 2:34 pm

Excellent, Tarotist. Although it always struck me as a strong trick, to be honest, I was never thrilled with original plot or patter of Design for Laughter as set forth by Hugard & Braue. It seemed to me a bit too much of an exhibition of the conjuror's cleverness, while being sort of a put down of the spectator -- especially the line, "Obviously you don't have much confidence in yourself." That is to say, the laughter seemed rather too designed to be at the spectator's expense. While it is also a sucker effect, I have always preferred my own variation of "That's It," gearing it more towards the spectators' ability to act or lie. But it sounds to me like you have turned DFL into a significantly more engaging and entertaining trick with the tongue-in-cheek hypnosis angle and patter.

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Re: Hypnotism Magic

Postby Tarotist » November 14th, 2021, 3:30 pm

Oddly enough I used the Dr Coue patter in the Royal Road for quite a long time before I devised the hypnotism patter. However, at that time I used the trick to emphasise my incompetence rather than my cleverness! I was working to a lot of young people my own age at that time and of course I was receiving a lot of heckling as young people tend to do. I was working in a shy, incompetent manner quite deliberately with things going apparently (and not always apparently) wrong all the time. I made use of a lot of sucker effects at that time and it was a wonderful defence against hecklers and far from acting triumphantly I acted confused and innocent. After a while it dawned on them I wasn't quite as innocent as I pretended.

My style changed over the years along with my personality. I still follow the basic psychology though as much as I can although the effectiveness has diminished with the passing years. The slicker I got the less innocent I seemed. I suppose you could say I sacrificied the innocence in exchange for the entertainment factor.

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Re: Hypnotism Magic

Postby MagicbyAlfred » November 14th, 2021, 5:14 pm

The combination of using the sucker effects together with the feigned confusion and innocence (in lieu of acting triumphantly) was a great ploy, and apparently perfect for where you were age and development-wise in magic. The slickness, I would imagine, came as you matured, both chronologically and magically, and developed the resultant confidence. While it seems you understood important aspects of human psychology from day one, the manner in which the psychology was applied differed to become harmonious with your evolving personality, persona and approach.

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Re: Hypnotism Magic

Postby Tarotist » November 14th, 2021, 7:13 pm

I used to get fantastic reaction from my magic when I was sixteen years old. However, from the age of about 18 onwards the reaction diluted somewhat. It was still great reaction but it seemed a tiny bit less than it was before. I hated the fact that it was less and in fact I never got it back the way it was. I often wondered what on earth happened to it. I suspect the real reason was that people didn't expect a 16 year old to be so good especially as he pretended that he wasn't. I still remember an older guy who was pretty sharp in the ways of the world saying to me, "The reason you are so good is that you are unsophisticated". I didn't even know what "unsophisticated" meant and had to look it up in the dictionary!

In those days I did sucker trick after sucker trick in a way that most magicians would consider unwise. Yet I got away with it time after time in a way I wouldn't be able to get away with nowadays. They would underestimate me and I would go in for the kill time and time again. And then I became a pitchman and lost the innocence. Nobody would call me unsophisticated now! I made up for it in other ways but I still miss the reaction I got with my old persona!

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Re: Hypnotism Magic

Postby MagicbyAlfred » November 14th, 2021, 9:12 pm

I understand. I used to get fantastic reactions when I was a six year-old giving magic shows at parties thrown by my parents and extended family. While I practiced and prepared diligently for those shows, and was able to execute my programme almost flawlessly, I am sure that the greater part of the reactions were due to the precociousness of a young boy having the chutzpa to give a show for a group of adults. let alone more than competently so. By definition, that could not continue indefinitely.

Although I know I will never get the same reactions for the same reasons as I did when I was a young boy performing magic, I feel that it's always possible for any magician to elevate and refine his or her performances so as to provide better and better entertainment and evoke greater and greater reactions, and I confess that it's something that I think about and work towards incessantly, virtually to the point of obsession. And, while that may sound almost pathological, it's what motivates me, and when I see tangible results, it is a tremendous high. In short, many decades later, I am having more fun and am more engaged than ever with magic. I know this discussion has strayed pretty far afield from the topic of this thread, but nonetheless, I sure am enjoying it.

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Re: Hypnotism Magic

Postby Edward Pungot » November 15th, 2021, 6:47 am

It's funny.
When you're young, everything you do is cute.
When you're old, everything you do needs a justification. Even play needs to be taken seriously. Ha-ha-he-he...hmmnn.

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Re: Hypnotism Magic

Postby Tarotist » November 15th, 2021, 1:22 pm

Six year olds tend to be cute. Sixteen years old somewhat less so. In fact, teenage magicians (and teenagers generally) tend to be obnoxious rather than cute! Not all of them of course but more than there should be. I probably reversed the process and became more obnoxious the older I got! But then I became a pitchman where that sort of thing is a job requirement.

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Re: Hypnotism Magic

Postby MagicbyAlfred » November 15th, 2021, 3:14 pm

Tarotist wrote:Six year olds tend to be cute. Sixteen years old somewhat less so. In fact, teenage magicians (and teenagers generally) tend to be obnoxious rather than cute! Not all of them of course but more than there should be. I probably reversed the process and became more obnoxious the older I got! But then I became a pitchman where that sort of thing is a job requirement.


I would imagine that one's experience as a pitchman would be a tremendous asset for a magical performer. You have to have the gift of gab (or at least develop it) and to speak well before a crowd, to think on your feet and have a quick wit, be entertaining, and have an excellent grasp of nuts and bolts human psychology.

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Re: Hypnotism Magic

Postby MagicbyAlfred » November 15th, 2021, 3:40 pm

According to a short article posted on the Improve Magic website, "Do Magicians Really Hypnotize People?" using fake hypnosis to account for the magic became a trend in stage magic in the era beginning in the days of Vaudeville and continuing through the 1960's. For example (according to the article), the classic trick of suspending a woman between two chairs was usually preceded by some fake hypnotism.
https://www.improvemagic.com/do-magicia ... ze-people/

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Re: Hypnotism Magic

Postby Tarotist » November 15th, 2021, 5:22 pm

This is the man who first advised me to become a stage hypnotist. He was one of the best and in fact was a household name in Ireland. Somewhat of a rogue according to this article but I didn't mind him a bit. Very charismatic fellow. I first heard about him when I was 16 years old from my uncle who went to medical school with him and I heard from some of my relatives that he visited my uncle's house on many occasions. However, I never met him until around 20 years later in Ireland. I admired him enormously.

Here is the article in question:
https://www.dib.ie/biography/goldin-pau ... w1rgTyv-dQ

I doubt very much if anyone will watch this video as it is an hour long. It consists of Paul and Barrie Sinclair who are two of the best stage hypnotists I have ever seen. Barrie does an excerpt from his show followed by both Paul and Barrie arguing with doctors and others who do not approve of hypnosis. If you have the patience and the inclination to watch it I think you will find it fascinating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h94-vm5nYms

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Re: Hypnotism Magic

Postby Tarotist » November 15th, 2021, 5:33 pm

MagicbyAlfred wrote:
Tarotist wrote:Six year olds tend to be cute. Sixteen years old somewhat less so. In fact, teenage magicians (and teenagers generally) tend to be obnoxious rather than cute! Not all of them of course but more than there should be. I probably reversed the process and became more obnoxious the older I got! But then I became a pitchman where that sort of thing is a job requirement.


I would imagine that one's experience as a pitchman would be a tremendous asset for a magical performer. You have to have the gift of gab (or at least develop it) and to speak well before a crowd, to think on your feet and have a quick wit, be entertaining, and have an excellent grasp of nuts and bolts human psychology.


The main thing you learn from pitching (or as we British say---grafting) is timing and emphasising certain words at certain times.

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Re: Hypnotism Magic

Postby MagicbyAlfred » November 16th, 2021, 7:04 am

I would venture to say that effective grafting, magic and hypnosis (as entertainment) all have at least a couple important common denominators, including an understanding of human nature/psychology and good communication skills. While there are things unique to each, they would all seem to all involve, to a significant degree, the ability to connect with and, persuade people.

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Re: Hypnotism Magic

Postby Tarotist » November 16th, 2021, 10:49 am

Actually that also applies to the psychic business. In fact arguably even more so.

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Re: Hypnotism Magic

Postby MagicbyAlfred » November 16th, 2021, 8:59 pm

Tarotist wrote:Actually that also applies to the psychic business. In fact arguably even more so.


I wouldn't doubt it for a second.

By the age of 3, knew I had ESP -- when my mother told me I was psycho.


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