Effects for those who believe in spiritism

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degrisy
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Effects for those who believe in spiritism

Postby degrisy » June 9th, 2016, 2:25 pm

I am in Brazil and I happen to meet people who really believe in spiritism (Kardec) or voodoo and this kind of things.

I would like to present a couple of effects about this lines only to tell them later on that are just tricks and see their reactions.

Unhappily I have nothing of this kind in my repertoire, so I ask if someone can suggest some effects or books where I can find something not too complicated with a good presentation.

An effect of the kind I am looking for is Revelations by Reverend Tristan published on Mystic Menagerie # 1 (http://www.lebanoncircle.co.uk/collecti ... ie-issue-1), but it is unpractical because I can not go around with a tarot deck.

Thank you.
Ars longa, vita brevis

John LeBlanc
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Re: Effects for those who believe in spiritism

Postby John LeBlanc » June 9th, 2016, 4:03 pm

I'm just thinking out loud here: It seems to me the first part may be entertaining, but the last part may be perceived that you are challenging their belief system. Or something more offensive.

John

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Re: Effects for those who believe in spiritism

Postby performer » June 9th, 2016, 4:23 pm

It IS possible to put curses on people. I do it if they annoy me sufficiently.

webbmaster
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Re: Effects for those who believe in spiritism

Postby webbmaster » April 10th, 2017, 2:01 pm

I just found out today about the passing of Bob Cassidy and I want to say that he and I had some great long phone conversations, and he had no attitude of superiority with me, an unknown to him, and was very supportive of ideas I had. Anyway, this topic one we covered. Bob felt strongly that it was important to believe it is real, in case the 'real thing' actually hits during a show, and to cultivate the atmosphere for such a thing occurring etc. etc. I was never sure if he was putting me on and just felt it was good to say you yourself believe until you start to, or if he just believed one should never admit anything whatsoever.

Another great man I discussed this with was Charles Reynolds who thought that if people believe in 'powers' that ultimately this was good for magic. And of course he and I knew you can't claim any healing powers or make any predictions that might have any real world impact on their lives, so I guess there is a middle ground where you don't say it is NOT real but you don't do any damage either. It certainly is a tricky area, but I must say the magicians that feel they have to expose that it is fake are probably over-reacting. At least this is what I believe today.

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Bill Marquardt
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Re: Effects for those who believe in spiritism

Postby Bill Marquardt » April 10th, 2017, 3:54 pm

I recall a story about Bob Steiner who went on Australian radio to perform a psychic stunt for the audience, using his energy to start up broken clocks and such. He later explained on air that it was all fake only to receive phone calls telling him that he was wrong, that he really did perform these psychic miracles and that he needed to recognize his powers.

A "true believer" will not accept the truth.

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Brad Jeffers
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Re: Effects for those who believe in spiritism

Postby Brad Jeffers » April 10th, 2017, 3:57 pm

degrisy wrote: ... it is unpractical because I can not go around with a tarot deck.
Really?!

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Re: Effects for those who believe in spiritism

Postby performer » April 10th, 2017, 4:29 pm

There are actually small tarot cards on the market. Playing size cards in actual fact. You could certainly carry those around with you if you were so inclined.

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Re: Effects for those who believe in spiritism

Postby webbmaster » February 6th, 2020, 11:42 am

Dr. Ray Hyman spoke about putting his way through med school doing palm reading and how people usually believed there was something supernatural to it. You don't have to tell them it isn't real ! Just do it. It is what it is. You're not going to change their minds anyway.

DanZ
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Re: Effects for those who believe in spiritism

Postby DanZ » February 6th, 2020, 12:56 pm

As Jonathon Swift wrote in A Letter to a Young Gentleman (1721) "Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired".

As for Ray Hyman: as I recall he told me was that he performed palm reading for money while in university and believed in its accuracy until a friend challenged him to tell people the opposite of what he thought he was reading in their palms. He explained that he was shocked to realize that they credited his readings with just as much insight as they had previously.

Daniel Zuckerbrot

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Re: Effects for those who believe in spiritism

Postby performer » February 6th, 2020, 1:44 pm

I have read thousands of palms. There is certainly no scientific proof of its validity but I HAVE noticed certain trends that are not a product of my imagination. I HAVE noticed that people with few lines on the hand are practical and down to earth and even sceptical about palmistry whereas someone with a lot of lines and a certain shape of the hand denotes creativity and strong intuitive ability. I HAVE noticed that if you press on the thumb and it goes right back very easily the person is inclined to let people take advantage of their good nature. And if the thumb resists strongly that the person tends to be stubborn.

None of this is evidence that is going to convince sceptics especially the more rabid ones. But then the more rabid ones have as much relevance as the Flat Earth society. Besides they are never going to give me any money anyway so I don't really give a stuff about them.

Later I may give you all a crash course in palmistry in one post if I happen to be in a good mood. In the meantime here is a link to a most brilliant palmist that I have admired for my entire life. Nearly 99295 views!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVz4lWC ... l-6vm8J724

DanZ
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Re: Effects for those who believe in spiritism

Postby DanZ » February 6th, 2020, 1:46 pm

Mark: as someone with lots of lines I am persuaded. But you knew that.

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Re: Effects for those who believe in spiritism

Postby performer » February 6th, 2020, 1:59 pm

Yes, well of course I do know everything. However, for those of you who also wish to know everything here is a crash course in palmistry. These are notes that I gave people at my psychic seminar for International Magic 10 years ago.

CRASH COURSE IN PALMISTRY

The right hand represents what is going on around you now. The left hand represents the past and inherited characteristics. If you are left handed though the reverse applies.
Few lines on hand means a practical and down to earth person. Perhaps even a little sceptical.
Many lines on hand means a sensitive person who may even be a little bit psychic. Very creative. May tend to worry too much.

Short fingers means impatience and a dislike for beating about the bush. Long fingers denote an eye for detail and ability to get down to the nitty gritty.

Your head line represents your brain and how you use it. A Short head line means you can easily be underestimated. And you can underestimate yourself too. You don’t give yourself enough credit for your own ability.
A long head line indicates great intelligence especially if it is well defined. If the head line slopes deeply on to the mount of luna (see a palmistry book to find out where that is) it means that you have strong imagination. If the head line dips and slopes too deeply it means you get depressed at times.

The Heart Line represents love. If the line goes straight across it means you bottle up your feelings and you need space on your own. If the line curves towards your index finger (finger of Jupiter) that shows a good strong, ongoing relationship. If the line shows jaggedness that shows path of true love not always running smoothly.

If the head and life line are joined at the beginning it means you are cautious. If there is a gap it means you are impulsive.

The life line shows health. It does not show when you are going to die as the old myth goes. If the line is strong it does denote long life and good health. If it is weak you need to take care of yourself more. The length of the line is not important. It is the depth and how strong it looks that matters. However if the length of the line is long and it also appears strong you can certainly tell the client that they are quite likely to have longer than the average life span.
If there is a break in the lifeline it can denote a health problem in the past. Never say the future otherwise you will scare the client.

The fate line sometimes known as the line of destiny goes up the middle of the hand. If it is long and well defined it means you know where you are going and will probably get there. It shows success in career. If the line is short it means you haven’t quite decided what you want to do in life. If it is very close to your life line it means that you can easily be influenced by people. If it is far apart it means you are very independent.

webbmaster
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Re: Effects for those who believe in spiritism

Postby webbmaster » February 6th, 2020, 2:33 pm

DanZ's recollection of Ray Hyman's experience is very interesting. I saw him on TV but it sounds like DanZ knew him. I was very interested in all those guys who I heard about at the time of Randi, and Paul Kurtz, and Perci Diaconis (sp ?) So, when Ray Hyman was on a TV show I watched it but seem to remember him being mentioned in magic magazines. I'd like to know more about him.

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Re: Effects for those who believe in spiritism

Postby performer » February 6th, 2020, 2:50 pm

I saw him on video attempting a palm reading. I got the impression he was winging it and didn't really know much about the actual meaning of the lines. I think if you are going to read palms you should at least know something about palmistry instead of trying to bluff your way through it. The readings are far more accurate that way.

DanZ
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Re: Effects for those who believe in spiritism

Postby DanZ » February 6th, 2020, 3:27 pm

So, when Ray Hyman was on a TV show I watched it but seem to remember him being mentioned in magic magazines. I'd like to know more about him.


Webmaster: I'm not a close friend of Ray's. I knew him from his writings, and met him the first time when I was involved in a documentary on water witching (dowsing). I was lucky enough to make the film for the CBC with documentary legend Terence Mcartney-Filgate. Ray had written the book (Waterwitching USA). The film featured Ray and Marcello Truzzi as our two sceptics (with different approaches to the question of scepticism). We spent an interesting and hilarious week at a dowsing school and convention. I stayed in frequent touch with him for a few years (including the time he was on a government oversite panel re Uri Geller, etc) but gradually lost contact. I was thrilled to spend some time with him again at the first Genii Convention (thank you Mr. K and co.). I haven't seen him since but (though in his 90s) last I heard he was still in good shape and recently seen attending some convention. There are those who know him much better than I and could tell you more. When I knew him he was a very approachable person and I think that if his health is good he still would be.

Daniel Zuckerbrot

DanZ
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Re: Effects for those who believe in spiritism

Postby DanZ » February 6th, 2020, 3:31 pm

In response to the original post I'd just add that though I'm no fan of confronting other folks beliefs too harshly you don't need a complex bizarre magic trick to do what you want. I'd think that many (if not most) card tricks could be turned to good affect and the literature is full of simple but potent non-card mental effects that could be given a "spiritist" twist. On the other hand in this question, like in most questions connected to deep beliefs, hopes and fears rational arguemnt rarely prevails.

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Zig Zagger
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Re: Effects for those who believe in spiritism

Postby Zig Zagger » February 6th, 2020, 4:02 pm

webbmaster wrote:Dr. Ray Hyman spoke about putting his way through med school doing palm reading and how people usually believed there was something supernatural to it. You don't have to tell them it isn't real ! Just do it. It is what it is. You're not going to change their minds anyway.

Just out of curiosity, webbmaster: Are you on a national grant for the resurrection of old threads now or something??
(Not that I‘m complaining though.)

If you enjoy digging in the past, may I pitch that there are about 300 older posts in my magic blog crying for caring readers! ;)
Tricks, tips, news, interviews, musings and fun stuff: Have a look at our English-German magic blog! http://www.zzzauber.com
Advancing the art in magic one post at a time (yeah, right!)

Bill Mullins
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Re: Effects for those who believe in spiritism

Postby Bill Mullins » February 6th, 2020, 4:43 pm

DanZ wrote: I haven't seen him since but (though in his 90s) last I heard he was still in good shape and recently seen attending some convention.


He was at Magi-Fest a couple of weeks ago in Columbus. I didn't get to say much more than "Hi", but Jamy Swiss spoke to him in greater depth and could tell you better how he is doing. (He looked fine to me -- for a guy in his 90s).

DanZ
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Re: Effects for those who believe in spiritism

Postby DanZ » February 6th, 2020, 7:23 pm

(He looked fine to me -- for a guy in his 90s).

Hi Bill. That's great news. I'll follow up with Jamy.

webbmaster
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Re: Effects for those who believe in spiritism

Postby webbmaster » March 23rd, 2020, 4:41 pm

Yes, Richard pays me a great deal to revive old threads. Seriously, I just sometimes do time-travel. Really, I get so engrossed with reading something that I forget to look at the date on the posts.

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Brad Jeffers
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Re: Effects for those who believe in spiritism

Postby Brad Jeffers » March 23rd, 2020, 6:58 pm

webbmaster wrote: Richard pays me a great deal to revive old threads.

Aha! I knew it!


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