Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Your doorway to those rare collectibles that everyone is searching for: books, props, posters, cards, and paper ephemera are all here for you to buy and sell.
billmccloskey
Posts: 169
Joined: June 10th, 2011, 2:11 pm

Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby billmccloskey » September 5th, 2014, 10:18 am

So 2 weeks ago, I was able to snag an original Marlo Magazine #2, signed by Marlo and from Jay Marshall's estate.

Yesterday I wasn't so lucky. Purchased Marlo Magazine #3 off of ebay. The listing claimed to be a reprint, but what I got instead was a binder with one sided xeroxed copies of the magazine. Not signed.

Question is what to do. According to Ebay's terms of service, xeroxed copies of non original material cannot be sold. I've opened a case with Ebay, because at this point, it was not what I was expecting and I can't resell it because it violates Ebays terms of service.

I could keep it just for the info, or I could fight it. I'm leaning towards fighting it. What would you do?

baabaablacksheep
Posts: 45
Joined: August 17th, 2013, 5:05 am

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby baabaablacksheep » September 5th, 2014, 10:28 am

Did you ask the seller where he got it from?

This post and others in the thread that you started not to long ago states that authorization was given to others to copy it. Back in the day that would mean a photocopy and if it was someone else making the copies then it would not be signed.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=45140&p=302433#p302428

Just because it is a photocopy does not make it an illegal item. It is only illegal if the copies were made without permission. Maybe you should have waited for an answer here first before filing a case.
Last edited by baabaablacksheep on September 5th, 2014, 10:31 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
jkeyes1000
Posts: 483
Joined: August 2nd, 2012, 3:12 pm

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby jkeyes1000 » September 5th, 2014, 10:29 am

I would copy the copy to retain the info and immediately request a refund from the seller. If no satisfactory response, open an "item not as described" case. eBay almost always agrees with the buyer.

billmccloskey
Posts: 169
Joined: June 10th, 2011, 2:11 pm

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby billmccloskey » September 5th, 2014, 10:31 am

My understanding is that authorized copies were still signed by Marlo and that it was printed on both sides, not just bad one sided xeroxes.

billmccloskey
Posts: 169
Joined: June 10th, 2011, 2:11 pm

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby billmccloskey » September 5th, 2014, 10:33 am

The seller refuses to provide a refund. He claims that since he listed it as a "reprint", it was not deceptive. My position is that a xerox is not a reprint.

baabaablacksheep
Posts: 45
Joined: August 17th, 2013, 5:05 am

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby baabaablacksheep » September 5th, 2014, 10:33 am

jkeyes1000 wrote:I would copy the copy to retain the info and immediately request a refund from the seller. If no satisfactory response, open an "item not as described" case. eBay almost always agrees with the buyer.


If the copy is illegal, then copying it to retain the information is just as illegal.

baabaablacksheep
Posts: 45
Joined: August 17th, 2013, 5:05 am

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby baabaablacksheep » September 5th, 2014, 10:34 am

It seems like you know what to do, why are you asking the question if you know what to do?

billmccloskey
Posts: 169
Joined: June 10th, 2011, 2:11 pm

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby billmccloskey » September 5th, 2014, 10:35 am

"
Just because it is a photocopy does not make it an illegal item."

According to Ebay's terms of service, photocopies are not allowed to be sold on Ebay.

baabaablacksheep
Posts: 45
Joined: August 17th, 2013, 5:05 am

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby baabaablacksheep » September 5th, 2014, 10:38 am

billmccloskey wrote:"
According to Ebay's terms of service, photocopies are not allowed to be sold on Ebay.



You have got to be misunderstanding that.

You are telling me if I am selling plans to make a shed. That I cannot print the first copy on my printer and then go to staples to make copies to sell on ebay.

billmccloskey
Posts: 169
Joined: June 10th, 2011, 2:11 pm

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby billmccloskey » September 5th, 2014, 10:44 am

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/rep ... rfeit.html

You can only sell photocopies of original works. If you didn't create the work, you cannot sell xeroxes. See terms of service link above.

Not allowed: "Media containing scanned pages from a book, magazine, manual, or other copyrighted materials that you didn't create"

baabaablacksheep
Posts: 45
Joined: August 17th, 2013, 5:05 am

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby baabaablacksheep » September 5th, 2014, 10:49 am

Bill,

Is this the one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ed-Marlo-Marlos ... 233fe0c0e6

If so then that sucks. That is a lot of money.

I think you have a tough case because the listing does say reprint and the seller does clearly state no refunds, but hopefully you will get him on the unauthorized copy clause.

If you look at the others that were sold they have color covers and are signed and sold for less than what you paid. Probably a good idea to check past auctions and the auction you are bidding on more closely when you are spending that kind of money.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R4 ... ld=1&rt=nc

billmccloskey
Posts: 169
Joined: June 10th, 2011, 2:11 pm

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby billmccloskey » September 5th, 2014, 10:51 am

Yes, that is the one. It is clearly a violation of the Ebay terms of service. BTW, a reprint is not a xerox.

baabaablacksheep
Posts: 45
Joined: August 17th, 2013, 5:05 am

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby baabaablacksheep » September 5th, 2014, 11:02 am

It looks like you may have bought an authorized reprinted/photocopied/whatever from back in the day. The guy sold issues 1, 2 and 3 and no more. If he was making the copies then he would have more to sell or sold more. Plus he has 100% feedback.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/zanderduncan/m. ... ld=1&rt=nc

If you went to a Magic Meeting and bought lecture notes that were copied by the author and given to the participants, are you saying that you have no right to sell them later on just because they were photocopied. I would think you would be able to sell them because you paid for the lecture and the notes. This might be that kind of situation where he bought it from one of those authorized to reprint (photocopy in that day) the magazine in another part of the country where getting it signed was not possible.

I really don't know for sure. Someone here must know if there was ever a version in a binder that was one sided.

Best of luck anyway, that is a lot of money for a crummy copy.
Last edited by baabaablacksheep on September 5th, 2014, 11:20 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
erdnasephile
Posts: 4117
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby erdnasephile » September 5th, 2014, 11:15 am

This happened to me a few times.

Each time I confronted the seller. In one case, the guy gave me my money back directly and I destroyed the copy.

In another case, I had to go through ebay to get some money back on a copied DVD and destroyed the copy. In this latter case, I also reported to ebay when the guy tried to sell more copies subsequently and got his auctions pulled because I didn't want others to get ripped off the way I was.

In one case, a very honest guy gave me a full refund and took the copy back. (He had gotten taken by someone else previously and didn't realize it).

(FWIW, Max's Color Series of Mentalism books were some of the most pirated stuff on ebay back in the day. It was very hard to figure out if the copies were real or not before bidding. I bought some of those books a couple of times before I was able to get a completely legit set. I finally figured out if a booklet had rusty staples, it was likely legit).
Last edited by erdnasephile on September 5th, 2014, 11:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

baabaablacksheep
Posts: 45
Joined: August 17th, 2013, 5:05 am

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby baabaablacksheep » September 5th, 2014, 11:18 am

The seller provided a lot of hi-res pictures of what you bought.

baabaablacksheep wrote:Did you ask the seller where he got it from?


Did you do this? The guy is actually selling a lot of magic books so he can probably tell you more about what you bought. If you look there are items just like what you bought that were photocopied and comb bound from back in the day.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ricardos-Card-A ... 234033f365

User avatar
Richard Kaufman
Posts: 24972
Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby Richard Kaufman » September 5th, 2014, 11:30 am

If the seller refuses to provide a refund, contact eBay and PayPal and explain that you were sold a photocopy of an item. That should end it.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

Bill Mullins
Posts: 5144
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby Bill Mullins » September 5th, 2014, 12:26 pm

The seller's listing of Dai Vernon's trilogy looks hinky as well.

User avatar
Dustin Stinett
Posts: 6879
Joined: July 22nd, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Sometimes
Location: Southern California
Contact:

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby Dustin Stinett » September 5th, 2014, 12:38 pm

It does not appear to be one of Randy Wakeman's authorized reprints to me. First, those had the same cover; a charcoal sketch of Marlo, not the ornate cover of the original magazine. And Wakeman's pages were printed on both sides.

A Xerox copy is NOT a "reprint."

Follow Richard's advice.

GlennWest
Posts: 59
Joined: April 11th, 2014, 6:05 pm
Favorite Magician: Tyler Wilson

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby GlennWest » September 5th, 2014, 4:53 pm

The originals I've seen were all numbered (as in "10 of 500"). If the page indicating the number was intentionally left out, that would indicate the copier knew what he was doing was unauthorized.

Also - it seems that if the copy were recent, the copied cover would be in full color. Why copy in black and white when copying in color costs just a little more?
Last edited by GlennWest on September 5th, 2014, 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

J Bright
Posts: 128
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: USA

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby J Bright » September 5th, 2014, 4:55 pm

On August 30, I asked the seller (zanderduncan), the following question about his Marlo's Magazine #1 lot (151395542441):

Why are you selling print outs of a pdf?

Reply:

reprints started at very low bidding price, because they are print outs. if you don't want reprint, don't bid, and pay high price for original. good luck.

- zanderduncan

baabaablacksheep
Posts: 45
Joined: August 17th, 2013, 5:05 am

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby baabaablacksheep » September 5th, 2014, 5:05 pm

J Bright wrote:On August 30, I asked the seller (zanderduncan), the following question about his Marlo's Magazine #1 lot (151395542441):

Why are you selling print outs of a pdf?

Reply:

reprints started at very low bidding price, because they are print outs. if you don't want reprint, don't bid, and pay high price for original. good luck.

- zanderduncan


Nice work J Bright. That is all the proof Bill needs. I though maybe it could be a legit copy but I was wrong.

Frank Yuen
Posts: 568
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Winfield, IL

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby Frank Yuen » September 5th, 2014, 6:29 pm

Bill Mullins wrote:The seller's listing of Dai Vernon's trilogy looks hinky as well.


As does the Phoenix Magazine which looks like he printed the pdf from the marketed cd.

I was sold a photocopy once on eBay and received a refund via Paypal. It was awhile ago now but what I remember was that Paypal wouldn't refund the money until I could prove that I had returned the product. Not sure how it is handled now that eBay owns Paypal.

Bill Mullins
Posts: 5144
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby Bill Mullins » September 7th, 2014, 12:14 am

J Bright wrote:On August 30, I asked the seller (zanderduncan), the following question about his Marlo's Magazine #1 lot (151395542441):

Why are you selling print outs of a pdf?

Reply:

reprints started at very low bidding price, because they are print outs. if you don't want reprint, don't bid, and pay high price for original.


??? Opening bid was $125. I don't consider that "very low bidding price."

Tom Dobrowolski
Posts: 705
Joined: March 13th, 2008, 9:20 am
Location: Palatine, Illinois
Contact:

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby Tom Dobrowolski » September 7th, 2014, 9:57 am

Frank Yuen wrote:
Bill Mullins wrote:The seller's listing of Dai Vernon's trilogy looks hinky as well.


As does the Phoenix Magazine which looks like he printed the pdf from the marketed cd.

I was sold a photocopy once on eBay and received a refund via Paypal. It was awhile ago now but what I remember was that Paypal wouldn't refund the money until I could prove that I had returned the product. Not sure how it is handled now that eBay owns Paypal.


It's the same these days Frank. A friend who recently bought a counterfeit "Absolute Magic" had to not only prove it was a counterfeit but also had to prove the product was returned before he got the refund.

User avatar
erdnasephile
Posts: 4117
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby erdnasephile » September 7th, 2014, 2:21 pm

Tom Dobrowolski wrote:
Frank Yuen wrote:
Bill Mullins wrote:The seller's listing of Dai Vernon's trilogy looks hinky as well.


As does the Phoenix Magazine which looks like he printed the pdf from the marketed cd.

I was sold a photocopy once on eBay and received a refund via Paypal. It was awhile ago now but what I remember was that Paypal wouldn't refund the money until I could prove that I had returned the product. Not sure how it is handled now that eBay owns Paypal.


It's the same these days Frank. A friend who recently bought a counterfeit "Absolute Magic" had to not only prove it was a counterfeit but also had to prove the product was returned before he got the refund.


Tom:
Was that a hardbound counterfeit of the Derren Brown book? Good grief!

No wonder people have such a low opinion of magicians (or those that sell things to magicians).

Tom Dobrowolski
Posts: 705
Joined: March 13th, 2008, 9:20 am
Location: Palatine, Illinois
Contact:

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby Tom Dobrowolski » September 7th, 2014, 6:21 pm

erdnasephile wrote:
Tom:
Was that a hardbound counterfeit of the Derren Brown book? Good grief!

No wonder people have such a low opinion of magicians (or those that sell things to magicians).


It was a hardbound copy and looked quite good. My friend spotted a discrepancy on the cover (a letter not capitalized on the copy) and questioned it. He had to get a statement from the publisher that it was a fake and return it with proof before he could get a refund. I offered to give him the money he spent on it and let me destroy it but he had already sent it back. I'm sure it's been resold.

Unfortunately it's not only those selling but the buyers. There wouldn't be a market if people weren't buying them.

User avatar
erdnasephile
Posts: 4117
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby erdnasephile » September 8th, 2014, 10:55 am

Tom Dobrowolski wrote:
erdnasephile wrote:
Tom:
Was that a hardbound counterfeit of the Derren Brown book? Good grief!

No wonder people have such a low opinion of magicians (or those that sell things to magicians).


It was a hardbound copy and looked quite good. My friend spotted a discrepancy on the cover (a letter not capitalized on the copy) and questioned it. He had to get a statement from the publisher that it was a fake and return it with proof before he could get a refund. I offered to give him the money he spent on it and let me destroy it but he had already sent it back. I'm sure it's been resold.

Unfortunately it's not only those selling but the buyers. There wouldn't be a market if people weren't buying them.


Agreed. (Unfortunately, some unwary buyers also get caught up in the mess created by the willing).

User avatar
Don Hendrix
Posts: 523
Joined: January 18th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby Don Hendrix » September 8th, 2014, 4:02 pm

The seller putting "no refunds" or "no returns" in a listing does not negate Ebay rules. There is a great deal of bogus stuff for sale on Ebay and buyers are not always able to figure that out from photos and descriptions. If I were King, the word "rare" would be banned from all Ebay listings.

billmccloskey
Posts: 169
Joined: June 10th, 2011, 2:11 pm

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby billmccloskey » September 11th, 2014, 1:50 pm

Ebay granted the return. I don't get a refund until I return the item.

billmccloskey
Posts: 169
Joined: June 10th, 2011, 2:11 pm

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby billmccloskey » September 11th, 2014, 5:06 pm

Looks like they pulled most of his other auctions as well.

prodigy
Posts: 94
Joined: April 20th, 2008, 8:40 am

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby prodigy » November 26th, 2014, 11:41 pm

Looks like the seller is reselling it: http://ebay.com/itm/151491648284?nav=SEARCH

User avatar
Richard Kaufman
Posts: 24972
Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby Richard Kaufman » November 27th, 2014, 10:43 am

The auction was shut down.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

prodigy
Posts: 94
Joined: April 20th, 2008, 8:40 am

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby prodigy » November 27th, 2014, 7:58 pm

Yes, I reported the item, along with the phoenix issues he has listed.

Just pointing out that it seems he still hasn't learned anything

User avatar
Brad Jeffers
Posts: 955
Joined: April 11th, 2008, 5:52 pm
Location: Savannah, GA

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby Brad Jeffers » November 27th, 2014, 8:42 pm

Xeroxed Marlo Magazine ... hmm

Weren't all issues of Marlo's Magazine Xeroxed copies?

Wasn't the Xerox machine the "printing press" for most of Marlo's works?

User avatar
Richard Kaufman
Posts: 24972
Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby Richard Kaufman » November 27th, 2014, 9:02 pm

No, all the initial printings of the Marlo Magazines were done on an offset press. They were not photocopies.

After the first two volumes were sold out, Marlo sold photocopies he made himself, and all were signed.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

billmccloskey
Posts: 169
Joined: June 10th, 2011, 2:11 pm

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby billmccloskey » November 28th, 2014, 9:38 am

This was a one sided, very poor xerox shoved into a black binder.

User avatar
Richard Kaufman
Posts: 24972
Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby Richard Kaufman » November 28th, 2014, 10:09 am

Sounds like a bootleg
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

IanLand
Posts: 57
Joined: November 28th, 2014, 12:20 pm
Favorite Magician: Marlo
Location: Hastings, UK

Re: Xeroxed Marlo Magazine: What would you do?

Postby IanLand » December 5th, 2014, 5:31 am

This listing sounds dubious to me. Marlo sent me a xerox of The Unexpected Card Book in 1982 (IIRC), but it was spiral bound, with plastic protective front and rear covers, and signed. It certainly was unexpected, because I didn't ask for it, it was a gift, but it was very much appreciated. I'm guessing any copies he made of MM would have been similarly carefully done, and signed.


Return to “Collector's Marketplace”