A Little Old Fashioned Racist Magic ... for Kids!

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Richard Kaufman
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A Little Old Fashioned Racist Magic ... for Kids!

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 23rd, 2014, 9:10 pm

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erdnasephile
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Re: A Little Old Fashioned Racist Magic ... for Kids!

Postby erdnasephile » June 23rd, 2014, 9:47 pm

Oh, man--wish I hadn't clicked that link.

Part of me wants to buy those just to burn 'em.

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Re: A Little Old Fashioned Racist Magic ... for Kids!

Postby MJE » June 23rd, 2014, 11:18 pm

Wow....just wow.....

But it is part of our history and culture. To hide it is a lie. On the other hand, I bet someone can't wait to get it out of his house!

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Kevin Connolly
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Re: A Little Old Fashioned Racist Magic ... for Kids!

Postby Kevin Connolly » June 23rd, 2014, 11:32 pm

And another that wants it his collection.
Please visit my website.
http://houdinihimself.com/
I buy,sell + trade Houdini, Hardeen items.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: A Little Old Fashioned Racist Magic ... for Kids!

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 23rd, 2014, 11:35 pm

Kevin, linking to an image somewhere else is one thing, but posting an offensive image here is another, so I deleted your post.
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Kevin Connolly
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Re: A Little Old Fashioned Racist Magic ... for Kids!

Postby Kevin Connolly » June 23rd, 2014, 11:48 pm

No problem.
Please visit my website.

http://houdinihimself.com/

I buy,sell + trade Houdini, Hardeen items.

Brad Henderson
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Re: A Little Old Fashioned Racist Magic ... for Kids!

Postby Brad Henderson » June 23rd, 2014, 11:59 pm

most racist magic trick? I vote for " das negger kapp" (delete title if needed). I have one in my collection. I keep it in a special drawer. it is the most offensive thing I own.

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Re: A Little Old Fashioned Racist Magic ... for Kids!

Postby Jeffrey Korst » June 24th, 2014, 4:12 pm

And then there's the name of a favorite prop-

To a large part of the world, Lota does not mean what magicians think it means.

http://www.salon.com/2012/07/10/secrets_of_the_muslim_bathroom/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

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Re: A Little Old Fashioned Racist Magic ... for Kids!

Postby Ted M » June 24th, 2014, 6:02 pm

Wow, that's an eye-opener. Good to know!

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Brad Jeffers
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Re: A Little Old Fashioned Racist Magic ... for Kids!

Postby Brad Jeffers » June 24th, 2014, 6:18 pm

The Hippity Hop China Men was made by Abbotts, not Tannen's.

The seller may have purchased it from Tannen's, but it is definitely an Abbotts item.

$110 is a good price. New, they sold for $200 and they are no longer available.

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Re: A Little Old Fashioned Racist Magic ... for Kids!

Postby Brad Henderson » June 24th, 2014, 6:20 pm

racism aside - the best lots bowl handling I ever saw was done in a little traveling circus called the Garcia brothers. Smartest handling I've ever seen - combined with probably the worst motivational frame I have seen. Bad not because it didn't 'work' but because it involved him glorifying cigarettes in a production sequence and then seemingly throwing the lot cigarettes on to the ground. Sitting on precarious benches in a tent on dry grass in Texas - that's what I want to see. Lit cigarettes thrown onto kindling.

he used the bowl to put them out. But his handling of the bowl - genius.

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Re: A Little Old Fashioned Racist Magic ... for Kids!

Postby Jonathan Townsend » June 25th, 2014, 8:55 am

Brad Henderson wrote:most racist magic trick? I vote for " das negger kapp" (delete title if needed). I have one in my collection. I keep it in a special drawer. it is the most offensive thing I own.


You have a collection of politically incorrect / culturally insensitive / items tainted by stereotypes ?
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Brad Henderson
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Re: A Little Old Fashioned Racist Magic ... for Kids!

Postby Brad Henderson » June 25th, 2014, 10:02 am

I have a magic collection - so, yes.

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Re: A Little Old Fashioned Racist Magic ... for Kids!

Postby I.M. Magician » June 25th, 2014, 10:44 am

Actually, I would think that anyone who started buying magic during or from the 60's and before will have some racist items in their collection. Who didn't buy Chinese Laundry Tickets in the old days?

It was a different time. Perhaps the greatest achievement of society was to become more accepting of each other and make inappropriate statements politically incorrect. We still have a long way to go.

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Re: A Little Old Fashioned Racist Magic ... for Kids!

Postby brianarudolph » June 25th, 2014, 12:18 pm

Even one of our classics, although not visually offensive per se, is often still referred to (and often presented as) an effect with a distinctly specific ethnic name:

http://tinyurl.com/pyr8e7w

But when the specific ethnic name is used in performance, I have always interpreted the performer as respectfully giving credit to the heritage of the effect:

http://tinyurl.com/kyxdgxx

But I'm still glad that we've generally dropped any ethic reference to this effect over the years, although it is still around:

http://tinyurl.com/l7zj3qk

And it would have been quite embarrassing to receive this in the mail every month had the ethic reference been retained as well:

http://tinyurl.com/nfdftzy

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Re: A Little Old Fashioned Racist Magic ... for Kids!

Postby Jonathan Townsend » June 25th, 2014, 12:46 pm

The paper trick is not so problematic when you lose the "no tickee" line. Might also want to lose the association about the sticks, rice bowls ... and learn a little more about the coins.

Imam's interview about magic in India has some comment about the cups trick. Takes on a different meaning as he describes it.
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Re: A Little Old Fashioned Racist Magic ... for Kids!

Postby Andrew Martin Portala » June 25th, 2014, 1:54 pm

Look in The Tarbell course Vol.2 page 278 and read what Dante did with the egg bag.

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Re: A Little Old Fashioned Racist Magic ... for Kids!

Postby Jonathan Townsend » June 25th, 2014, 2:51 pm

Andrew Martin Portala wrote:Look in The Tarbell course Vol.2 page 278 and read what Dante did with the egg bag.


That could be reworked to have someone wearing glasses wave their hands and produce an egg with glasses painted on.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

Brad Henderson
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Re: A Little Old Fashioned Racist Magic ... for Kids!

Postby Brad Henderson » June 25th, 2014, 3:44 pm

chink cans
chink a chink
jap box
any number of items with Buddah stencils

although I always wanted to see a working version of Tarbell's King of Cards card rise.

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Re: A Little Old Fashioned Racist Magic ... for Kids!

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 25th, 2014, 4:30 pm

Brad, both Jim Steinmeyer and I made the Al Jolson King of "Clubs" card rise out of Tarbell when we were kids. I still have mine. Even when Tarbell published it, the reference was decades out of date. But it worked like a charm if you were a fan of minstrel shows.
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Brad Henderson
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Re: A Little Old Fashioned Racist Magic ... for Kids!

Postby Brad Henderson » June 25th, 2014, 6:08 pm

I've never been good at building things.

can I rent yours when I get booked on a double bill with the movie green pastures?

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Re: A Little Old Fashioned Racist Magic ... for Kids!

Postby JFox » June 25th, 2014, 7:29 pm

Re: the Al Jolson Rising Card Trick: I sent the Tarbell pages (with permission of D. Robbins) to the International Al Jolson Society (I was a member at the time)---they included it in their annual club booklet.

(Richard: Ever notice that both the Abbott Conventions & the L.A. Magic History Conference - play Jolson songs as the audience gets seated and also exits. I hear Jim Steinmeyer is a Jolson fan too.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hard to beat Davenport's "Hullo Twins!" 20th century Silk Trick:

Patter: "Miss Starkey married a Darkie..." with the resulting brown & black babies on mini silks strung between the the Mr. and Mrs. silks.

btw - You may not want to use any of the early (Thayer) apparatus that used the Indian "Swastika" design for your next Bar Mitchvah Show.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: A Little Old Fashioned Racist Magic ... for Kids!

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 25th, 2014, 8:43 pm

I'm a Jolson fan as well, so I always notice Jolie singing at the LA History Conference. (If you don't have the double CD set from the UK with Jolson and Crosby, you're missing something great.)

You will also find the swastika on SS Adams DeLand decks from the early 1920s.
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Re: A Little Old Fashioned Racist Magic ... for Kids!

Postby Brad Henderson » June 25th, 2014, 8:55 pm

Did Max give a talk or write an article on racism in magic props/names?

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Re: A Little Old Fashioned Racist Magic ... for Kids!

Postby jermar » June 27th, 2014, 9:28 pm

I think a good children's entertainer could still get away with that Chinese Rabbit thing. He would have to reword the patter and make an appropriate presentation for it that would not offend. An educational slant on China for example. It doesn't have to be racist at all. And of course I happen to know quite a few Chinese magicians. They could certainly find a use for it with a bit of thought.

I wouldn't necessarily discount the item. With a bit of careful thought it could be made non-offensive.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: A Little Old Fashioned Racist Magic ... for Kids!

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 27th, 2014, 10:44 pm

How about I do some magic with a Sambo doll. Is that cool? I think not ... and neither is Hippity Hop Rabbit with Chinese caricatures.
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Re: A Little Old Fashioned Racist Magic ... for Kids!

Postby Max Maven » June 28th, 2014, 4:33 am

Brad Henderson wrote:Did Max give a talk or write an article on racism in magic props/names?


I did, in a "Parallax" column, over twenty years ago. Made no difference.

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Re: A Little Old Fashioned Racist Magic ... for Kids!

Postby Andrew Martin Portala » June 28th, 2014, 8:31 am

When in doubt leave it out.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: A Little Old Fashioned Racist Magic ... for Kids!

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 28th, 2014, 12:21 pm

I believe that little weasel Mark Lewis snuck back in here as "jermar" so I have banned him.
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Re: A Little Old Fashioned Racist Magic ... for Kids!

Postby erdnasephile » June 28th, 2014, 8:12 pm

Max Maven wrote:
Brad Henderson wrote:Did Max give a talk or write an article on racism in magic props/names?


I did, in a "Parallax" column, over twenty years ago. Made no difference.


This column ran in MAGIC in the December 1991 issue (pg 14-15). It made a big difference to me personally because for the first time, I finally read someone giving voice to a concern that had troubled me for years. Sadly, as demonstrated in this thread, apologists for such racism persist, and thus, the message of this brilliant piece is as timely as ever.

Favorite quote from the article:

"And so I sit here, an American Jew, typing this onto a computer made in Japan. I'm writing in a Northern European language using a Mediterranean alphabet and Arabic numerals, while listening to African-American music. I just finished watching a Chinese movie, following dinner at a Mexican restaurant. And I'm wondering, what conceivable value does cultural chauvinism offer to me?"

Well said, Mr. Maven. Well said!

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Re: A Little Old Fashioned Racist Magic ... for Kids!

Postby Bill Duncan » June 28th, 2014, 9:51 pm

Brad Henderson wrote:I have a magic collection - so, yes.


10 points to Ravenclaw!

Anyone here use Vernon's patter for the "Chinese Matches?"

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Re: A Little Old Fashioned Racist Magic ... for Kids!

Postby Jonathan Townsend » June 28th, 2014, 10:16 pm

Bill Duncan wrote:
Brad Henderson wrote:I have a magic collection - so, yes.


10 points to Ravenclaw!

Anyone here use Vernon's patter for the "Chinese Matches?"


Or the thing with the dollar bill and paperclips?
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Re: A Little Old Fashioned Racist Magic ... for Kids!

Postby Bill Duncan » June 30th, 2014, 9:55 pm

Crickets...


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