My magic videos from 70s. 80s and 90s

Discuss the historical aspects of magic, including memories, or favorite stories.
MagicbyAlfred
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Re: My magic videos from 70s. 80s and 90s

Postby MagicbyAlfred » May 14th, 2020, 9:30 pm

Tom, I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. I do not want to say anything unkind, so that's all I'm going to say on this subject.

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Tom Stone
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Re: My magic videos from 70s. 80s and 90s

Postby Tom Stone » May 14th, 2020, 9:43 pm

MagicbyAlfred wrote:Tom, I have no idea what you are talking about. That's all I'm going to say.


If you had read just a few words more, you would have found the relevant section.

In short, you have the exclusive rights to authorize someone else to display or air your work.
No need at all to transfer your copyright - that would just make it impossible for you to perform your work elsewhere.

Arnaud
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Re: My magic videos from 70s. 80s and 90s

Postby Arnaud » May 15th, 2020, 8:18 am

Tom Stone wrote:
Bill Mullins wrote:I've taken down a bunch of Youtube videos of me, and there's never been any problems - except when the uploader is an american, then it is usually necessary to phrase it in an unnecessarily verbose manner.


Thank God I did not post any of the Tom Stone videos I have....:-)

JHostler
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Re: My magic videos from 70s. 80s and 90s

Postby JHostler » May 15th, 2020, 8:44 am

Tom Stone wrote:
MagicbyAlfred wrote:Tom, I have no idea what you are talking about. That's all I'm going to say.


If you had read just a few words more, you would have found the relevant section.

In short, you have the exclusive rights to authorize someone else to display or air your work.
No need at all to transfer your copyright - that would just make it impossible for you to perform your work elsewhere.


Tom - You're a TERRIFIC magician. Really - Jedi-level, in my opinion. But - with all due respect - you're not qualified to practice IP law in the United States. We all understand your low opinion of the country's approach to intellectual property (among other things), but US law is what it is. There are plenty of magicians with J.D.s roaming about.
"Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong." H.L. Mencken

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Tom Stone
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Re: My magic videos from 70s. 80s and 90s

Postby Tom Stone » May 15th, 2020, 10:56 am

JHostler wrote:but US law is what it is.

I just quoted the US law above... There's no need to take my word for it, when you can read it for yourself.

Why is it that in the whole world, it is only on the Genii forum that people stand up and shout "I DO NOT OWN MY OWN WORK!!!" ?
Last edited by Tom Stone on May 15th, 2020, 11:09 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Tom Stone
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Re: My magic videos from 70s. 80s and 90s

Postby Tom Stone » May 15th, 2020, 11:03 am

Arnaud wrote:Thank God I did not post any of the Tom Stone videos I have....:-)

Hahaha, I don't think that would have been a problem.
It is only when they don't moderate the comment field.
My first step is to simply contact the uploader and in a cordial way ask them to moderate the comments or turn the comments off.
Then I wait 2 weeks, and if there haven't been any reply, or a negative reply, I tell Youtube to take it down.
Even had to do that once with the production company's own upload, which felt a bit odd.

JHostler
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Re: My magic videos from 70s. 80s and 90s

Postby JHostler » May 15th, 2020, 11:44 am

Tom Stone wrote:
JHostler wrote:but US law is what it is.

I just quoted the US law above... There's no need to take my word for it, when you can read it for yourself.

Why is it that in the whole world, it is only on the Genii forum that people stand up and shout "I DO NOT OWN MY OWN WORK!!!" ?


Your quotes may have been accurate, but not your interpretation. In the US, if I own rights to a video of your performance, only I have legal recourse for the theft or unauthorized use of that content. Not you. You forfeit those rights to me upon purchase, unless otherwise specified.
"Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong." H.L. Mencken

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Tom Stone
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Re: My magic videos from 70s. 80s and 90s

Postby Tom Stone » May 15th, 2020, 12:22 pm

JHostler wrote:Your quotes may have been accurate, but not your interpretation. In the US, if I own rights to a video of your performance, only I have legal recourse for the theft or unauthorized use of that content. Not you. You forfeit those rights to me upon purchase, unless otherwise specified.

That's only when copyright have been transfered, or when I'm employed. Not in a simple standard deal where someone else is authorized to display the work.

If I have transfered the TV distribution rights to a piece of mine to someone else, then they own those rights, and I would not be able to perform that piece in any other TV-show ever again, unless I first have those rights returned back to me. That's way to unwieldy, and would break the budget for most production companies.

Of course, if I'm wrong, it would be quite simple for you to cite a source that top or supercede 17 U.S. Code § 106. My prediction is that you won't find any.

JHostler
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Re: My magic videos from 70s. 80s and 90s

Postby JHostler » May 15th, 2020, 5:26 pm

Tom Stone wrote:
JHostler wrote:Your quotes may have been accurate, but not your interpretation. In the US, if I own rights to a video of your performance, only I have legal recourse for the theft or unauthorized use of that content. Not you. You forfeit those rights to me upon purchase, unless otherwise specified.

That's only when copyright have been transfered, or when I'm employed. Not in a simple standard deal where someone else is authorized to display the work.

If I have transfered the TV distribution rights to a piece of mine to someone else, then they own those rights, and I would not be able to perform that piece in any other TV-show ever again, unless I first have those rights returned back to me. That's way to unwieldy, and would break the budget for most production companies.

Of course, if I'm wrong, it would be quite simple for you to cite a source that top or supercede 17 U.S. Code § 106. My prediction is that you won't find any.


Tom - You're jumbling a lot of things. In the US, copyright easily attaches to recordings (paper and electronic). The underlying performance is a different matter. If I own a video of you singing a song, I generally own the video (or "the right to display" that exact performance - or "distribution rights" for that video) - not necessarily the song, or the rights to subsequent performances of that song. Perhaps by "distribution rights" you meant "performance rights??"
"Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong." H.L. Mencken

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Tom Stone
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Re: My magic videos from 70s. 80s and 90s

Postby Tom Stone » May 15th, 2020, 6:04 pm

JHostler wrote:If I own a video of you singing a song, I generally own the video (or "the right to display" that exact performance - or "distribution rights" for that video) - not necessarily the song, or the rights to subsequent performances of that song.

Yes, if you produced that video, you have the rights to that specific video, but not to the work that is incorporated in it. In order to display the incorporated work publicly, an agreement have to be made to authorize you to show it.
No copyright transfers are necessary.

Randy DiMarco
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Re: My magic videos from 70s. 80s and 90s

Postby Randy DiMarco » May 15th, 2020, 8:40 pm

All this is really of no consequence because YouTube is a private company and they can decide to take down any video that they choose. They choose to be extra carful that they don't violate copyright so they take down anything that is reported. It is probably what their lawyers recommend to avoid fines and lawsuits.

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David Nethery
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Re: My magic videos from 70s. 80s and 90s

Postby David Nethery » May 19th, 2020, 10:44 am

Tom Stone wrote:
Arnaud wrote:Thank God I did not post any of the Tom Stone videos I have....:-)


Hahaha, I don't think that would have been a problem.

It is only when they don't moderate the comment field.
My first step is to simply contact the uploader and in a cordial way ask them to moderate the comments or turn the comments off.


Then I wait 2 weeks, and if there haven't been any reply, or a negative reply, I tell Youtube to take it down.
Even had to do that once with the production company's own upload, which felt a bit odd.


Yes ! This should be a no-brainer, to moderate comments or disable comments for performance videos. You can set it up to receive email alerts about new comments waiting for approval ... if you don't want to invest any time in moderating comments , then turn off comments. Otherwise you end up with an unending torrent of inane comments about "how it's done" . Some (most) of the comments about the method are just stupid , other comments may involve actual exposure. Either way , it cheapens the performance. I'm dumfounded that as long as YouTube has been around now that so many magicians use it in a stupid way, inviting ridicule or exposure.

The other stupid thing I see much too frequently on YouTube is when magicians (or magic fans) include the marketed name of the effect in the title of the video !!! :( . People understand how to use Google. If you provide the marketed name of the trick in the title of the video , why not just provide the links for them to save time ?


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