The place of Edward Victor in magic history

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Mr. Charming

The place of Edward Victor in magic history

Postby Mr. Charming » August 24th, 2019, 9:47 pm

Edward Victor (RIP) was the actual creator of Tilt and the "Elmsley Count", among many other things. Unfortunately his place in the history of magic isn't recognized as it should. I would feel better if magicians would recognize his work and contributions to the world of magic.

Bill Mullins
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Re: The place of Edward Victor in magic history

Postby Bill Mullins » August 24th, 2019, 10:18 pm

Putting a card in from the side isn't "Tilt", and the Elmsley count isn't done with three cards.

Philippe Billot
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Re: The place of Edward Victor in magic history

Postby Philippe Billot » August 25th, 2019, 2:12 am

Eleven Card Trick (1951) is an excellent (and now classic) trick CREATED by Edward Victor. "My Rope Routine" (1937) is an ORIGINAL cut and restored rope mystery by Edward Victor but a" three as four count " was described in 1910 by Ellis Stanyon and the Tilt (or "Deepth Illusion" was REALLY created by Dai Vernon (dixit Ed Marlo in his booklet "Tilt!" published in 1962. If you want more details for the Tilt, look for Jon Racherbaumer's article in Sticks and Stones, Vol. 01, no. 10, 1977, "How Deep Is This Illusion?"

Philippe Billot
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Re: The place of Edward Victor in magic history

Postby Philippe Billot » August 25th, 2019, 4:04 am

Excerpt from The Collected Works of Alex Elmsley (written by Stephen Minch), Tome 1, 1991, page 26.

"When Mr. Elmsley published his count, he cited Edward Victor's E-Y-E count and a false count devised by Eric de la Mare (see p. 232) as important sources for elements of the sequence (the block pushoff and the under-the-packet return respectively). Earlier sources exist for these ideas: Charles Jordan and Laurie Ireland for the block push-off, and Ellis Stanyon for the under-the-packet return. It was years later that Mr. Elmsley's friend Francis Haxton unearthed a clearly related sleight by Charles Jordan in a 1919 trick, "The Phantom Aces" (ref. 30 Card Mysteries, pp. 37-38). Mr. Jordan's sleight, now known as the Jordan count, though used originally as a displacement only, also concealed the bottom card of a four-card packet. It's similar handling made it perfectly suited for combination with the Elmsley count, as has been amply demonstrated during the past few decades by Edward Mario and others after him."

As you can read, Elmsley quote Edward Victor as a source of inspiration

Philippe Billot
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Re: The place of Edward Victor in magic history

Postby Philippe Billot » August 25th, 2019, 5:31 am

On the other hand, Edward Victor described a Convincing Control BEFORE Edward Marlo!!!

Bill Mullins
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Re: The place of Edward Victor in magic history

Postby Bill Mullins » August 26th, 2019, 12:11 am

Has Mr. Charming's account been deleted?

Jonathan Townsend
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Re: The place of Edward Victor in magic history

Postby Jonathan Townsend » August 26th, 2019, 12:33 am

Those who wish to explore his books *Magic of the Hands will find some history.
Anyone doing E-Y-E or his card control as written?
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

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Brad Jeffers
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Re: The place of Edward Victor in magic history

Postby Brad Jeffers » August 26th, 2019, 1:48 am

Bill Mullins wrote:Has Mr. Charming's account been deleted?
Apparently yes.
He made a disparaging remark regarding Michael Close which was quickly deleted and subsequently ...
Richard Kaufman wrote:Mr. Charming has departed the building.

Philippe Billot
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Re: The place of Edward Victor in magic history

Postby Philippe Billot » August 26th, 2019, 6:23 am

Let's take this opportunity to pay tribute to our beloved Big Chief who had the joly good idea to re-publish The Magic of the Hands Trilogy in 1995.

Paco Nagata
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Re: The place of Edward Victor in magic history

Postby Paco Nagata » September 22nd, 2019, 10:13 pm

Philippe Billot wrote:...and the Tilt (or "Deepth Illusion" was REALLY created by Dai Vernon (dixit Ed Marlo in his booklet "Tilt!" published in 1962. If you want more details for the Tilt, look for Jon Racherbaumer's article in Sticks and Stones, Vol. 01, no. 10, 1977, "How Deep Is This Illusion?"

Inserting a card under the top one making believe that the card is going deeper into the deck, appears as well as a method (the first one) of Hofzinser's “Remember and Forget,” written by Ottokar Fischer in "J. N. Hofzinser's Card Conjuring" (1931), p. 90 of the S. H. Sharpe translation.
Apparently, it was a great idea that had several great card magicians independently.
"The Passion of an Amateur Card Magician"
https://bit.ly/2lXdO2O
"La pasion de un cartómago aficionado"
https://bit.ly/2kkjpjn
I've finished my best improvement of the English translation on 16/10/19.


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