Jazz Aces

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Philippe Noël
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Jazz Aces

Postby Philippe Noël » July 19th, 2021, 12:17 pm

Does someone know the story behind the creation of Jazz Aces by Peter Kane?
Is there a trick that inspired him?

Philippe Billot
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Re: Jazz Aces

Postby Philippe Billot » July 19th, 2021, 2:13 pm

Perhaps he combined Mobilizing The Aces by Vernon (The Sphinx) and 7 Card Assembly by Marlo (Ibidem)?

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Q. Kumber
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Re: Jazz Aces

Postby Q. Kumber » July 19th, 2021, 3:52 pm

Peter Kane was very good friends with the late Kevin Fox here in Manchester.

Kevin told me that he once asked Peter about the variations of Jazz Aces that appeared after Peter had published his. Peter replied, "Do they not think or realise that they are coming up with the very same variations that I had already dismissed?"

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Jazz Aces

Postby Richard Kaufman » July 19th, 2021, 4:42 pm

Many versions of Jazz Aces are better than the original, just as most versions of "Wild Card" are better than "Watch the Ace," and many versions of the stretching card are better than Peter's original version. His remark is nonsense.
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Chris Aguilar
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Re: Jazz Aces

Postby Chris Aguilar » July 19th, 2021, 8:00 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:Many versions of Jazz Aces are better than the original, just as most versions of "Wild Card" are better than "Watch the Ace," and many versions of the stretching card are better than Peter's original version. His remark is nonsense.

Much respect to Kane in general, but yeah, agreed. His comment is asinine.

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Re: Jazz Aces

Postby Bob Farmer » July 20th, 2021, 7:26 am

I'm not so sure. I've had personal experience with some of my tricks. Someone will come up with a variation or a supposed improvement, that I had already tried and discarded. This happens, I think, because the person does not see the trick in its entirety but just some elements and misses the point.

Oh, yeah, I did my variation of Jazz Aces too. See: Jazz Pieces - Body & Soul. A red and a black jumbo card are cut into four pieces, the pieces change places, oil and water, and then assembly. Oct. 1977 Pabular (Vol. 4 No. 2)476. A reader in Holland won a close-up contest with it and sent me a thank you.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Jazz Aces

Postby Richard Kaufman » July 20th, 2021, 11:44 am

Bob, of course a few of the variations that people come up with are discards from the original inventor. But Kane's statement was all-inclusive, and that's what is dumb about it. The guy was bitter.
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Chris Aguilar
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Re: Jazz Aces

Postby Chris Aguilar » July 20th, 2021, 12:45 pm

Statements like Kane's assume a "One size fits all " and "You can stop thinking about this effect now, it's reached its apex with my version!" mentality which I think is frankly pretty dumb.

Sure, his version could be his personal preferred"ultimate" or even the " Preferred Ultimate" for many (most?) users. But to assume the 100% "This is the best for everyone" use case doesn't fly with me.

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Re: Jazz Aces

Postby Joe Mckay » July 20th, 2021, 5:29 pm

It was called Jazz Aces because Peter Kane was a big fan of jazz. He loved that music.

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Re: Jazz Aces

Postby Philippe Billot » July 21st, 2021, 2:08 am

Excerpt from Another Session with Peter Kane, 1971

“Not a dixieland combo - just a fancy title for a different Ace Assembly”

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Re: Jazz Aces

Postby Leo Garet » July 21st, 2021, 12:13 pm

Bob Farmer wrote:I'm not so sure. I've had personal experience with some of my tricks. Someone will come up with a variation or a supposed improvement, that I had already tried and discarded. This happens, I think, because the person does not see the trick in its entirety but just some elements and misses the point.


Well said.

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Re: Jazz Aces

Postby Leo Garet » July 21st, 2021, 12:14 pm

I knew Peter and Kevin. I also knew Joe Dignam, introduced to me at a Blackpool convention by David Britland. Peter, Joe and Bob Ostin were always getting together to put the Magic world to rights over a drink or seven.

I knew Bob to say hello to, but not as well as I knew Peter and Joe, or Kevin. I think Steve Tucker introduced Bob and I, at Blackpool.

Regarding the comment Q. Kumber mentions, Peter said something similar to me, but only once and in passing. This was a long time before “Jazz Aces” became the immortal being it is today. He was not, therefore, referring to the many Good, Bad, Indifferent versions that have appeared since then. He was not beating any drums and was not making a major statement. It was also long before Bob Farmer’s published a version in“Pabular”.

I saw him lecture more than a few times, in fact once upon a time we “shared the bill” at a Blackpool Club meeting. He usually did “Jazz Aces,” but never commented on other versions, other than occasionally saying something to the effect that it was a trick that people seemed to like.

Away from lectures and whatnot, he hardly ever referred to his material, unless asked. He knew that on a good day I could strum a few chords on guitar, so his first comments to me were usually, “Have you seen any decent guitarists recently?” Before I had a chance to say anything he would go into some detail about a jazz player I’d never heard of before or since. This was usually at a jazz club he frequented in Manchester.

Kevin Fox was a guitarist of no mean ability and though music was never his first greeting, somewhere along the way it would crop up. When it did his lead comment was always “Do you like Willie {Nelson] yet”. The answer was and remains, “Not much.”

His comment was not asinine. He was an easy going soul and “the guy” was not the least bitter about anything. To say otherwise is more than disrespectful and is certainly unworthy.

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Re: Jazz Aces

Postby Bill Duncan » July 21st, 2021, 11:12 pm

Over the last 30 years or so in magic I've noticed that many effects are overwhelming popular because their entry point is so low. People love a trick with an Elmsley count.

Oddly, if you add in a Jordan Displacement you lose a large percentage of the brotherhood.

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Re: Jazz Aces

Postby Joe Lyons » July 22nd, 2021, 3:18 pm

Bill Duncan wrote:
Oddly, if you add in a Jordan Displacement you lose a large percentage of the brotherhood.


Strange, I always practiced the two back to back.

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Re: Jazz Aces

Postby Chris Aguilar » July 22nd, 2021, 3:41 pm

Leo Garet wrote:His comment was not asinine. He was an easy going soul and “the guy” was not the least bitter about anything. To say otherwise is more than disrespectful and is certainly unworthy.
Your opinion of what constitutes "Disrespectful" or "Unworthy" is of no concern to me.

If the word "asinine" (accurate in my view) triggers you, then please feel free to substitute "illogical", "unwarranted", etc. which are also applicable.

It all works for me as you've made it clear that Kane did feel that way (vis-a-vis his silly generalization).
Q. Kumber » 19 Jul 2021, 12:52
Peter Kane was very good friends with the late Kevin Fox here in Manchester.

Kevin told me that he once asked Peter about the variations of Jazz Aces that appeared after Peter had published his. Peter replied, "Do they not think or realise that they are coming up with the very same variations that I had already dismissed?"
Post by Leo Garet » Yesterday, 09:14

Regarding the comment Q. Kumber mentions, Peter said something similar to me, but only once and in passing.


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