Improving Magic Conventions

[Pete Biro]

Magician's can't afford a higher price to attend a convention.

One of Klosterman's "stated goals" was to make the IBM Conventions "cheaper"--going to small hotels, like Motel 6s and a little better.

What he didn't factor in is these little cheap joints have NO MEETING SPACES no theaters... Nuttin' Honey.

You cannot believe what it costs to mount a convention. All in hidden costs. Union stage crews, light and sound rental<----a HUGE cost, clean up, 24 hour security, printing, phone calls, emails, faxes... the list goes on.

And the talent costs for some reason often go sky high... do they think they are baseball players?

Anyway, my advice? Go to a convention... talk to the organizers, if you have ideas, let them know.

VOLUNTEER YOUR SERVICES. :genii:

[Bill Mullins]

Originally posted by Peter Marucci:
I would add one thing: Big conventions (and they are too big now) are 'way too cheap. The registration should be at least doubled to stay in line with conventions in other fields -- medical, insurance, academic, etc. conventions.

Usually attendees at the types of conventions Peter mentions above are spending someone else's money to register. No so with magic conventions. A better comparison would be with other fan-oriented conventions - Science Fiction, Comic books, etc.

[Guest]

I talked with the organizers of the CAM conv. held last year. I was dually impressed with the line-up and services but sadly they lost money.
I'm giving them a thumbs up for trying again next year. I'll be there for sure whatever the cost.
gibby
btw. next years line-up is already booked and in my estimation is a winner.

[Guest]

Pete Biro writes: "Magician's can't afford a higher price to attend a convention."

Of course they can!

I'm not exactly "rolling in money" and yet I can get to a national every few years.

As someone mentioned in an earlier post, it's basically a holiday. And, if you do a holiday "on the cheap", then you're going to get "cheap".
And it serves you right, what you get.

Spend a buck!

So the conventions lose out on those who will sleep in their cars before spending $60 for a hotel room.

Big deal! Big loss!

There are about a zillion smaller conventions around the country that are cheap, convenient, and definitely "down market".

The big conventions should be exactly that: BIG conventions.

There's a line in Jurassic Park that fits this ideally.

"Don't go cheap on me now!"

One final note: Anybody who can afford to spend a couple of hundred bucks on airfare to get to a convention, can afford a couple of hundred bucks to register.

Period!

cheers,
Peter Marucci
showtimecol@aol.com

[Terry]

I'll provide an example of a low end convention...

Every year for 15+ years, IBM Ring 198 out of Lexington, has produced the Unconventional Convention at Cumberland Falls State Park.

The convention registration is $10 per magician, the rooms ran $50 + tax, and the only restaurant for 15 miles was in the Lodge.

We have 1 "name" act on the evening show and the remainder is talent from IN, KY, OH, and TN. These states also provide the attendees every year.

The only official dealers this year was Haines House of Cards (OH) and the Clock Shop (Lexington). The remainder were individuals trying to clear out their magic room. Sort of an unofficial swap meet.

The only attraction is the Cumberland Falls. You can take a 3 mile nature walk to & from or drive.

The major reason for attending? It is a chance for friends to be in 1 place and see each other. Period. Well, the beauty of the Daniel Boone Nat'l Forest in the Fall helps....

[Danny Archer]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dustin Stinett:
[QB]Now, I have a question. As a producer of conventions, how are you managing to stay ahead of the astronomical costs these days? Magic conventions seem to have very low registration fees (regardless of what some of the folks here may think) in relation to other conventions I am aware of.

You are right Dustin ... costs increase every year but not the charge for registration ... what we are trying to do with the LVMI is to keep the crowd small (with a close-up convention small is better), but we have been rather lucky in that the good buzz about the convention has attracted a very high level of talent, which attracts hopefully a good crowd ... of course our financial goal is to cover the expenses and a few bucks left over ... our over gola is to have a great convention filled with lectures, workshops, shows and sessions ...

[Guest]

Being relatively new to all of this, please permit me to offer a few thoughts, based on the posts above:

- If I am appointed Ruler of All Conventions, I mount an active public outreach to try and bring as many people, magicians or not, into an evening show. In doing so, I help raise more money that helps keeps down the cost of registration for attendees. (Of course, I'm in PR for a living, so *naturally* that would come first to my mind.)

- I've only been to a couple of conventions. I was less impressed by the performances than I was the access to some of the best thinkers and performers around. Once again, as Ruler of All Conventions, I'd keep the lectures as a showcase for the featured lecturers to talk about their new effects and how to do them (let's face it, many of the lectures are just the front end of a sales effort for DVD/CD/tapes/lecture notes on the back end). But there would also be pay-for-play SuperSessions at each convention; sessions where people pay, oh perhaps $25-30 for roundtable discussions with the performers. Imagine sitting at a table with Racherbaumer and no more than six others, lettting him discuss whatever, and talking you through either specific moves, or the theory behind an effect. Multiple SuperSessions could be scheduled, with the convention taking its cut of each registration.

- Aggressively use the conventions to recruit new members. While I know there's been a debate about who should be permitted to join rings or assemblies or what-not...you must believe that any person who's attending the public show and paying good money to get in is a potential recruit for a club. Maximize the opportunity. Do we keep a database of attendees? Do we do anything to keep in touch with them, during the year? Good grief, why not?

Okay, enough of that...my point is that magic conventions can be staged, IMHO, to be of lasting benefit to many of the attendees at the same time that they also make money and increase the general awareness of our art among the "great unwashed."

Cheers,
Steve

[Guest]

Originally posted by Steve Friedberg

Imagine sitting at a table with Racherbaumer and no more than six others, lettting him discuss whatever, and talking you through either specific moves, or the theory behind an effect.

... and how much would he pay us to sit there?

--Randy Campbell

[Pete Biro]

Selling tickets to the public to attend a convention's evening shows.

OK... the attendees that register will kill you if any layment get seats AHEAD, IN FRONT OF THEM.

However, we always like to put laymen in the FRONT ROW... cuz magician's react in the wrong places, and we want the performers to have real people in the front. These are usually guests of people that help us, like the fire marshall, the union bosses, etc. It helps to give them a few tickets early!!!

Then, when you SELL TICKETS to the theater guess what?

The theater managment says, "Oh, selling tickets eh? Well, you now need 16 union ushers, added security, a registered nurse, fire marshalls, tickets printed by "our" union printer, added insurance, uh... there's more."

It ain't easy!

Peter M. If you don't think magicians aren't CHEAP... ask the casino owners in Las Vegas what the "drop" is when a magic convention is there vs. any other group.

Zip...

[Shawn Farquhar]

Conventions who open their shows to the public also don't get all the registrations because "cheap folks" know it's cheaper just to get the evening show tickets, have a friend buy or copy the lecture notes and borrow a badge to get into the dealers room. If you don't think that all happens...you've never run a convention...

[Guest]

Shawn:
You're right, I've never run a convention...but it seems to me that tix for the evening show can be sold on an individual basis, and that many of the magicians who'd attend the convention are coming for far more than just that.

Let me propose a convention setup for you, whereby:

-An active public outreach is conducted before the convention, letting people know that not only is the convention coming to town, but that there are local clubs that attract magicians of all skill levels.
-Anyone from the public can gain access to the dealer room during the convention...dealers can consider special "registered attendee" pricing.
-Reduced price tickets for the convention are sold in advance through local/regional magic groups, with full price tickets being sold at the door. (Alternately, the group can sell full-price tickets with a cut going to the club.)
-Only badged attendees are allowed to attend sessions; SuperSessions are available at additional cost to attendees. The convention takes a cut of every session, with the majority going to the performer.
-Tickets to the "gala performance" are sold as part of the attendee package, or separately to the public. No discounts for families, sad to say, unless there's a mass group that buys tickets. (Broadway doesn't do it...why should we?)
-Names of attendees who do not belong to local clubs are forwarded to membership chairmen for post-convention followup.

Let's look at what this accomplishes:
-It can drive attendance, both for the convention itself and the gala performance.
-It can serve to heighten interest in magic, which may drive membership in local clubs.
-Clubs can benefit from added revenue by selling tickets to the convention; the convention gains from having a sales channel.
-Performers can gain additional revenue from the SuperSessions; the convention organizers take their cut as well. Attendees feel they've gained additional insight on-site.
-Merchants have a larger pool for sales at the show; just watch sales of Svengali decks go through the roof!
-Local clubs benefit from names forwarded to them for membership; think of them as sales leads.

The bottom line: a convention is not a non-profit public service; the organizers have every right to make money on what they're doing, or at least break even. Let's be creative about how we approach this kind of stuff. If we do, we run the real possibility of making it more popular than ever.

My .02; YMMV.

Cheers,
Steve

[Shawn Farquhar]

Steve:

I hope you didn't think I was attacking your post. I love the idea of Super Sessions (although if I read it correctly, as the organizer I would pay for the act to fly there, put them up at my expense, rent a room for them to host the session, advertise the event at my expense,pay them their fee and then take just a small percentage of the money collected? I might work it slightly different...but it's still a great idea!)and your additional idea of cross market profit sharing with the local magic clubs could work well too.

In my post I just wanted to make it clear that no matter what a convention organizer does, there will always be those that find fault or loop holes to get the most for the least. Thinking only of their reward and not the magic community as a whole.

I host the PCAM convention, now entering it's 70th year, and also act as the current President. This convention uses many of the methods you described. Even though I mentioned how public shows can reduce registration numbers we still have public shows because they can attract future magicians while educating lay audiences on just how great magic can be when performed correctly.

I believe the secret to not being a "not for profit" convention is simple. Book only what you can afford and spend the money as it comes in and not before. I am lucky. PCAM has a solid membership base who register for our convention a full year in advance, knowing nothing about the next year other than the date and place! These folks send their hard earned money and book their hotel rooms early because they know that a base account and large room count at the hotel will work to the organizer advantage when it comes to better room rates and the finest entertainers.

I love the idea of an open dealers room but you won't see it at my conventions. I pay for the advertising, room, security, lights, power, pipe and drape, table, linen and signage. The vendor pays a small fee to set up a booth and sell to a quailified group of buyer who have paid for that right by registering. The added expense the vendor has for getting to the location and accomodating ones self is to be expected when marketing to the convention circut. I can't believe anyone here thinks they can walk up to the vendors room of any major show (ie.: Comdex, ITWAL, or Gift show) and expect to get in without registering! Ok some offer free registration by you better expect to be attacked with junk mail...because those free registration conventions make their money selling your address to anyone with a buck and something to sell.

As a producer, entertainer, lecturer, dealer and attendee I see all sides of the story. I would love the rates to be lower, the acts to be bigger, the lectures to be free, the dealers room open and the peformers fee to be higher...and in a perfect world...

Oh Hi Pete Biro...nice to see you here too. You mentioned the dealers rooms are free to everyone at WMS. It wasn't always that way though. When did it change?

Just as a plug...

I'll be lecturing and performing at the following events this year:

World Magic Seminar, Las Vegas, Nevada
MagiFest, Columbus, Ohio
PCAM, Vancouver, Canada
Hong Kong Magic Festival, Hong Kong, China
Canadian Association of Magicians Convention, Ontario, Canada

The rest of the year I'll be on the beautiful Norwegian SKY cruiseship touring the world.

The best of the holidays to you all,

Shawn Farquhar
www.magiChampion.com

[Guest]

Shawn:
No harm, no foul...no offense meant, and none taken.

Re: the SuperSessions, I'd suggest that for those performers who are already booked to present at the convention, that separate sessions be set up, with no more than 10 people at a session for no more than 60-90 minutes. Cost? Whatever the market will bear. I dare say that most people would pay far more to work with someone like Allan Ackerman than....well, fill in the blank. And you can split the fees with him. So, if you assume that 10 people pay, say $30 each to take part in the session, that would be an extra $150 for the performer and $150 for the convention. All for stuff he'd probably be hit up for anyway. Now, multiply that by three (for the number of sessions he's likely to conduct), and five (for the number of performers), and you're looking at the potential of more than an additional $2k for the convention. Not bad.

As for charging the dealers, you're absolutely right to do so; it's part of the cost of the convention. And nowhere is it written that you're not entitled to make a profit. (But pipe and drape? Wow...I'm used to setting up the folding table and that's it!)

It gets back to what I personally want from a convention, and that's to see the performers perform, but also to get some insights from them on what will make *me* a better performer. And that's not just learning a cool move.

Have a wonderful holiday, Shawn, and I'll try to make it to Columbus.

Cheers,
Steve

[Pete Biro]

steve: come to the WMS... we have had supersessions, workshops, etc. etc. for a long time...

Dealer room open to non-registered? Started two ago.

Coming in January super sessions with Lennert Greene. :rolleyes:

[Steve Bryant]

I noted the schedule for Lennart's sessions, but there was no mention of them when I registered. Any idea on the fee?