Personal Message from Harry Lorayne

[Guest]

Did anyone else get a Mutha sized email file from Harry Lorayne today? Apparently a new volume - every word ever written by Harry Lorayne - is available. Any thoughts?? --Asrah

[Richard Kaufman]

I didn't receive the e-mail, but you obviously didn't read it, since his ad in the April Genii specifies the four books being combined in one volume: Close-Up Card Magic, Personal Secrets, My Favorite Card Tricks, and Deck-Sterity.

[Guest]

Gosh, sorry. Just having a little fun. Sorry.

[NCMarsh]

Looked to be another case of spam generated by this site (is this true?). This one was a particular nuisance because of the size of the file. The address that was spammed is the one through which clients contact me, if my mailbox is clogged with this stuff and their messages don't get to me -- it is my business and reputation that is harmed.

I am not a lawyer, but the email also appears to not comply with the requirements of federal anti-spamming laws. These laws do provide for fairly severe criminal penalties.

best,

N.
IllusionArtistry.com

[NCMarsh]

Harry replied politely to my request to be removed from his list.

Best,

N.
IllusionArtistry.com

[Bill Mullins]

Good for Harry to respond quickly. But he never should have sent it out in the first place.

[David Mitchell]

Is it really wrong for someone to send an e-mail to someone regarding something they might think you are interested in?

There's a big difference between the 'once-in-a-blue-moon' mailings, and the incessant remarks that I need to be either larger, skinner or richer.

Frankly, I don't mind an occasional mailing from people I've corresponded with in the past. Especially when it's about things I like.

I think you're making a bigger deal out of this than it really is.

David.

[NCMarsh]

1.) If I had corresponded with Harry in the past it wouldn't be spam -- I haven't.

2.) The email took up an ungodly amount of space in a limited account. It is the account through which I conduct business. If clients can't reach me because my mailbox has been stuffed with spam, then it is MY reputation and business that are harmed -- not Harry's! That is also, potentially, money being taken out of my pocket.

3.) It is illegal.

Best,

N.
IllusionArtistry.com

[Guest]

Its very easy to delete a mail.
But I like magic, I will keep this mail in my computer...

[magicam]

I got it too but deleted it without reading it. If the header actually read "personal message from Harry Lorayne," that in itself is deceptive. Harry and I have never corresponded. Clay

[Bill Palmer]

I feel left out. I didn't get it.

So he must be getting his list from somewhere other than this site.

[Brian Marks]

Originally posted by Nathan Coe Marsh:
1.) If I had corresponded with Harry in the past it wouldn't be spam -- I haven't.

2.) The email took up an ungodly amount of space in a limited account. It is the account through which I conduct business. If clients can't reach me because my mailbox has been stuffed with spam, then it is MY reputation and business that are harmed -- not Harry's! That is also, potentially, money being taken out of my pocket.

3.) It is illegal.

Best,

N.
IllusionArtistry.com

1. I suppose clients can email you first for business or you have to email them first?

2. The email while bigger than most isn't that big. I suppose you need a bigger account.

3. Report Harry.

[Bob L]

An ungodly amount of space?

It was 275K.

I can understand not wanting to get the email. (For my part, I was glad to hear Harry finally finished this project and it was available.) But that isn't an unreasonable sized email.

[Chris Aguilar]

On my monitor (only 19in), the text of the ad (which I was curious to read) was too small.

Harry should have stuck with text and perhaps linked to a page with the fancy graphics.

Other than that, I was not bothered by the ad at all.

[MaxNY]

Always the "hard sell", Harry...I liked the "personal" hook. As if...

[Richard Kaufman]

My plain old $20 a month earthlink account holds 10MB, and I don't pay for extra storage. 275k is zip in terms of space.
And I didn't receive the e-mail, either, and I helped him with the book! And we correspond by e-mail!
So that tells you that wherever the addresses came from, it wasn't from this website, or Harry's personal e-mail address book.

[Jim Maloney_dup1]

Condsidering an average e-mail's probably about 5-10kb...275kb is huge. Sure, in terms of relative space, that's nothing (I get 1000MB with my free gmail account, so storage space means little to me), but it's simply disrespectful to send an e-mail of that size to someone who hasn't requested it. I don't know what was in the e-mail to make it that big (since I also didn't receive it), but I can almost gurantee that the same e-mail could be sent using no more than 25kb and be just as, if not more, effective.

We should also remember that not everyone is on a cable modem -- those using dialup are might wonder why it's taking them so long to download their e-mail.

-Jim

[Randy Naviaux]

Well I didn't get it either. If someone would be so nice as to forward their unwanted copy to me please do so. I don't care about the size. My Yahoo account gives me 100mb for free.

Strange that my earthlink account still only gives me 10 mb for $20 a month.

rnaviaux@yahoo.com

Thanks,

Randy

[Adrian Kuiper]

C'mon guys.....put it to rest. If you don't like an email you receive...delete it. Not a big deal.
Frankly, compared to some of the other types of email I receive, guaranteeing me that certain body parts will be enlarged, this was a refreshing piece of news. Will I buy the book? Nope. I own the originals.

Enuff already!!!

Adrian

[Dave Egleston]

I didn't get anything from Mr Lorayne and I've bought stuff from him in the past and have been a member of this and several other boards for years, so the accusation implied is specious at best, the GENII Forum is not responsible for your inability to respond to your clientle in an expedient manner.

Plus, I'm sure it would be easy for Mr. Lorayne to post his newest offering on the MARKETPLACE heading to reach GENII members.

Doesn't almost everyone have a "Spam Filter?"

I sign up for every mailing list in magic and those I find stupid, offensive, overbearing or unethical in my mind, usually have a disclaimer stating if you'd like to be removed from their mailing list "Click Here" -- one or two keystrokes and you'll never hear from them again. if they don't have the disclaimer - YOU can block future email from the originating address through your email server - more than a couple of keystrokes, but also effective.

For those who don't have these Lorayne books - This offering sounds like a good idea.

By the way Mr. Marsh: I understand you have a project in the works, if so, you can contact me through email and I won't complain about a fellow magician trying to make a buck.

Dave

[Richard Kaufman]

Why doesn't some just paste the entire e-mail into this thread and then I'll lock it. :)

[mrgoat]

Originally posted by David Mitchell:
Is it really wrong for someone to send an e-mail to someone regarding something they might think you are interested in?

Yes. It is illegal.

It's called unsolicited commerical email. Or spam. Your fair land has the CAN-SPAM act which states that you can only send commerical email to someone that you have an existing business relationship with, you include a physical address and very clear unsub instructions. Amongst other things.

This means, for example, that someone attending a magic conference is allowed to be emailed by the conference organisers concerning another magical 'thing'. But not to be emailed concerning a exhibition on spoons.

As I understand it.

[Guest]

See the ad here:

http://www.mastermagic.info/images/harry-lorayne.jpg

http://www.mastermagic.info/

[magicam]

Richard: tried to cut and paste the ad for this thread but can't do it due to the graphics? Maybe somebody more savvy knows how to do it. Clay

[Brian Morton]

Checked my spam filter this morning, and sure enough -- there's an e-mail with a 271kb graphics file from Harry Lorayne.

And no, I've never corresponded with him before, either.

For the record, I agree 100 percent with Nathan: sending unsolicited commercial e-mail is spam, and against the law. Just because "someone [sends] an e-mail to someone regarding something they might think you are interested in" (as Mr. Mitchell puts it) doesn't change this. Every Nigerian e-mail scammer is sending something "they think you might be interested in" -- it's not THEIR intent that matters. This is the argument every spammer who had had the nerve to get up and testify before Congress used, and it's crap.

If Mr. Lorayne wanted to reach me, he knew how (and he did): advertise in GENII or one of the other magic publications. Dumping a 271kb graphics file into my in-box (how would he know whether or not I might have broadband, where it would barely be a nuisance, or dial-up, where it would be a HUGE inconvenience?) isn't the answer.

brian :cool:

[Brian Marks]

Your spam filter works...what a crime. Harry should be cold calling you any moment for your order.

[Ryan Matney]

I recieved the email. I don't mind at all that I got it. I was more shocked at the asking price of the book.

I might have considered buying it if it were half the listed price.

[David Mitchell]

Originally posted by mrgoat:
Yes. It is illegal.

It's called unsolicited commerical email. Or spam. Your fair land has the CAN-SPAM act which states that you can only send commerical email to someone that you have an existing business relationship with, you include a physical address and very clear unsub instructions. Amongst other things.

I would hope then you take the same stance regarding real junk mail that comes to your door. Flyers, advertisements, solicitations for window cleaning etc. If I were to receive 5 or 6 a day from Mr Lorayne, then I would fully expect to be able to be removed from the list. 1 every few months or more, isn't an inconvenience, and frankly I'm amazed at the number of people who are upset about this.

David.

[mrgoat]

For Harry's sake I have mangaged to reduce the advert to just 80k. Help yourself.

www.bookamagician.co.uk/spammer.jpg

I could get it to about 10k if I could use text for the copy and just that one image of Mr L.

But I really am not going to copy type that ad. :)

And yes, I do take the same stance for junk mail and cold calls. I am on the do not contact register and very rarely get any rubbish on my phone or through my front door.

There are laws. In this case, he is breaking the law. No unsub, no address and no previous dealings with me at all. Can't have one rule for Harry and one for the rest of the world.

I imagine the people that didn't get it, the reason is it's in your spam folder. Mine was.

[Guest]

Originally posted by David Mitchell:
I'm amazed at the number of people who are upset about this.

Don't be. I doubt if anyone here has a problem with Mr Lorayne, it's more the fact that he appears to have joined the magic spam bandwagon. To be fair, at least his content was magic related.

Some time back I purchased some notes from Lee Asher. All well and good. But I found myself, later, in receipt of a blanket email which had nothing more to communicate than advising those on the road not to upset restaurant staff as there was a good chance that they may spit in our food. Thanks for heads up Lee, but no thanks.

[Richard Kaufman]

Okay, here is a message that Harry Lorayne has asked me to post:

Hi Folks: I was told to look into the forum. I did, and was shocked! Here I've spent most of the day talking to people who've told me how thrilled they were to receive this email copy of my ad, reading emails about it, taking orders - and then, the Forum.

Well, here's the thing. I have two people to whom I write big checks every so often, regularly, to take care of my two websites, and maintain my computer stuff generally. One of those guys talked me into going into magic chat rooms, forums, what-have-you, and build an email list, something I've never done before and, of course, after this, WILL NEVER DO AGAIN, ever! Neither of these "rocket scientists" told me that it was a bad thing, that it was illegal, that it would "fill peoples' bins" or whatever the terminology is. That's all I'd have had to hear and it would have stopped instantly.

I'm a very naive computer person, that's why I pay these people. Well, I paid them extra to gather all the email addresses - they said, "Sure, you're advertising in the magazines, and you're sending out your regular mailing list, but this way you may reach people who are not on your list, and who don't get the magazines." Okay. Sounds right. After all, you write a book, you want to sell it. Particularly since I'm selling it only directly through me, myself - no dealers, etc.

I had no idea about size, about legalities, etc., 'cause NOBODY TOLD ME. Gotta tell you that I get these unasked-for magic adverts ALL THE TIME. I haven't called my lawyer or the police or congress yet, nor have I spouted off about it publicly. Some of them I answer, or am interested in, most I DELETE.

This is the first and last time I'll use emails this way. If I've upset anyone (other than the two above-mentioned, and the one or two others in this forum, please accept my apologies. I had no idea I'd upset anyone; furthest thing from my mind. Just the opposite - I really thought I was doing a good thing; advising people about a book that I've been asked to do for more years than I care to remember.

So, again, folks. If I've done anything illegal, the cops know where to find me, and if I've upset anyone I'm truly sorry. It sure as h--- will never happen again. I sure don't need this at my time of life; don't think I EVER needed it. Right? Right.

Please accept my sincere apologies. Really. To those of you on the other, much, much, larger side of the coin, if you received a blank message (something I'll never understand) or any problems, any questions, just email me - I don't mind! - and I'll email another one, or "snail mail" a hard copy, whatever you like. HARRY LORAYNE