Is it all about money?

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Is it all about money?

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 12th, 2003, 3:03 pm

Let me add my opinion to Scott Robinson's ... Tony Miller could not have done any more to apologize than he already has, and both Scott and I take him at his word. Since we were the people directly involved in this, it is our opinions that count.
So, that particular subject is closed.
Now, please continue with the subject of this thread, is it all about money?
The answer of course, is yes to some and no to others.
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Steve Hook
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Re: Is it all about money?

Postby Steve Hook » June 12th, 2003, 4:22 pm

If it's good enough for Scott Robinson, then I should indeed drop the matter.

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Re: Is it all about money?

Postby Scott » June 12th, 2003, 5:31 pm


Is it about money or about loyalty? If someone said "I'll give you something for $50 that you can sell for $200", and you sell 1000 of them, didn't that person HELP you make $150,000? Had that person not helped you, you would have made... zero in MANY MANY cases. Why? Because there isn't anyone else who would have figured it out. I think I'm beginning to agree that 49% of the people think one way about this. Personally, if someone made me $150,000 and it cost me $50,000 to do it, I'd be pretty darn happy and loyal with them. Should someone else come around and say "I can sell you something similar for $25". I personally would say "No thanks, I'm very happy with my relationship with my supplier". However, if I said I can sell you something for $50 and you can sell if for $60, then perhaps I would be willing to shop around. But, in my eyes, this guy has made me a pile of money, why should I not reward him. Yes, you might be able to have it made cheaper, but what happens when you come up with an idea at 3 in the morning and you write the details on a napkin and you need someone to make it? Your "go to guy" who you have spent $50,000 with is going to bust his ass to help you because you've made him $50,000, and he's going to be creative and help you invent the best thing you can.

However, if you shop on price, when that "mass producer" can't innovate or create your technically difficult part, then you're going to lose all potential sales.

I've had many people tell me they couldn't make products for the company I used to work for, then, I'd stumble upon a place who would say "It's tough, but not impossible, I think we can make it", and they did. Did they get all our business? Yes. Did we make a ton of money off of what they created? Yes. Did they? Yes. Did they help us on other projects over the years. Yes. Had we screwed them by continuing to shop around, or took the manufacturing methods to another shop, we would have lost that partnership which created us a ton of money. It's what we called loyalty.


Re: Is it all about money?

Postby Guest » June 12th, 2003, 6:22 pm

Maybe we should try to bring back patents to the magic industry as they existed in the late 1800s and early 1900s.

In the (legal) drug industry, gross margins run as high as 98% (YES--2% to manufacture the drug--and that is in the LEGAL drug industry). Every one knows the secret, but the patent (temporarily) protects the drug company.

And as others noted on this board regarding magic tricks, the first pill of a new drug usually costs $100s millions, its the second one that's cheap. I would say most good marketed magic effects don't just cost the manufacturing development and tooling cost of a few $ thousand, but also all the research and development cost and time of the effect developer.



Re: Is it all about money?

Postby Guest » June 12th, 2003, 7:17 pm


To sum up what you said: Good business relationships are valuable.

I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

I think most people strive to have a good symbiotic customer/vendor relationship.

Way back in my Marketing 101 courses, one of the first things that is taught is that the deal only starts with the sale, it is imperitive for a business to maintain customer relations through proper servicing of the account. Current in house customers are extremely valuable to a firm because they already know who you are, you don't have to "sell them" anymore - they already know your product. The marketing objective changes to a roll of meeting your current customer's needs which involves providing a quality product, priced properly, on a timely basis, as well as customer support for the product.

Since I am not involved in the creation/sales/marketing of magic, I'll talk about what I am familiar with in the business world...

Our company strives very hard to meet these customer demands because we recognize customer retention is of utmost importance.

I do know that if we price our product higher than its value, we will lose our customer. I know that if we cannot make delivery requirements, we will lose our customer (and they aren't afraid to tell me so!), if I don't build a quality product, I will lose my customer, if I don't support my product properly, I will lose my customer.

Unfortunately I might be superb in 3 of the 4 requirements above, but if I fall short in one, it can cost me business. No one said business is easy, but as a customer oriented company we acutely realize that it if we lose a customer (for one of the above reasons), the blame falls squarely on our shoulders.

I know my customers don't shop me purely on price, since my products cost more than any of my competition. This even makes it more important to excel in the customer service area. If the customer does not recognize a value for the higher price, I am a gonner.

I would say in general, companies want good solid vendors. The companies that only look for the lowest buck usually get stung in the long term. Sure their is some jerk customers out there, honestly if my customer doesn't treat me fairly, I am better off not doing business with them. (We have companies like this in our industry - we avoid them purposely).


Re: Is it all about money?

Postby Guest » June 12th, 2003, 7:28 pm

The amount of sheer typing in most of the above is just incalculable. It speaks to the intensity of the topic and the beliefs.
I have mostly--lately--been fortuntel. If s Stevene Empoprium effect disappoints upon purchase; they have always repalced it for me. Secondy, Stevens catalgoue often has actual photograhs of the modus operandi--and it helps. I'm not primarily interested inthe secrets. I am only inteested in "do-abiity" If the gaffs explained fit, then I buy eagerly.
. when Stevens descriptions indicare that the product is not for me, I have refrained. Result: I have saved MANY dollars, STevens ahs sacrifced MANY dollars--but he has produced a customer not just a buyer Other dealers (H & R Books, Denny and Lee) have also proven to be 'satisfction guaranteed'

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Re: Is it all about money?

Postby Wolfgang » June 15th, 2003, 7:31 am

Thank you for your post Rosie. It is interesting to me that a person who can not give his full name and location is attacking the credibility of my post.
Just because a person makes a statement on the website of his so called magic association does not make it the complete truth. As always there are two sides to the story.
If you find that something in my post regarding the issue of this topic is faulty I would be more than willing to discuss that matter with you in a friendly matter, however if you just use any third partys opinion (which might well be posted somewhere on a website) to stirr up some controversy for your own entertainment than I urge you not to steal my time.

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Re: Is it all about money?

Postby Bill Mullins » June 16th, 2003, 10:26 am

Rosie has never made a secret of the fact that she is Tony Miller's wife and they live in Ohio.

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