Exposure & Will Ferrell on Leno

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magicam
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Exposure & Will Ferrell on Leno

Postby magicam » June 30th, 2005, 2:16 am

Did anyone see last night's Jay Leno show?

Will Ferrell was promoting the Bewitched movie and did a 'comedy' Linking Rings routine on stage, stretched open (bent apart) the gimmicked ring by about 7, and then tossed it and the other rings into the audience.

Is this sort of exposure a common thing for celebrities or others to do on national television in the name of 'comedy,' etc?

Clay

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mrgoat
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Re: Exposure & Will Ferrell on Leno

Postby mrgoat » June 30th, 2005, 3:55 am

Originally posted by Magicam:

Is this sort of exposure a common thing for celebrities or others to do on national television in the name of 'comedy,' etc
It makes no difference.

I do small linking rings when working close and do stage version too.

All the time, and I mean all the time, I get people coming up to me saying:

I saw this exposed on the masked magician and your version fooled me.

I saw this on the telly but one of the rings had a hole in it

etc etc

If you do the routine well you will still entertain.

I vividly remember John Lenahan (sp?) exposing a double lift on british TV and the next day I went around doing ambitious card and still slaying.

Exposure doesn't matter.

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MaxNY
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Re: Exposure & Will Ferrell on Leno

Postby MaxNY » June 30th, 2005, 4:49 am

Can someone get me a copy ?

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magicam
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Re: Exposure & Will Ferrell on Leno

Postby magicam » June 30th, 2005, 5:23 am

mrgoat: I wasn't really focusing on the merits of exposure (its probably been debated here on GF ad nauseum). Just wondering if this sort of thing is common on tv, not so much the Masked Magician exposure-type programs, but rather the in passing gratuitous exposure like what Ferrell did. Clay

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Re: Exposure & Will Ferrell on Leno

Postby Guest » June 30th, 2005, 7:49 am

Many decades ago, Jerry Lewis guest hostted the Tonight show, As he walked out he produced an Appearing Cane. As he sat down, he visibly folded it it up. Clearly showing ot was collapsible
My first reaction , outrage!
Thinking about it however, I realised , he wasn't thinking of it as a trick. Just a cool prop
from
Ford

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Re: Exposure & Will Ferrell on Leno

Postby Pete Biro » June 30th, 2005, 9:16 am

I talked to one of Leno's staff about this. He is into magic and told me it was not expected and he said the staff was caught on this and SHOCKED... as was Leno. He said no one was happy about this.

I never like Ferrell and now I REALLY DON'T LIKE HIM.
Stay tooned.

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Dustin Stinett
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Re: Exposure & Will Ferrell on Leno

Postby Dustin Stinett » June 30th, 2005, 9:31 am

Clay,

I don't think that this is a common occurrence at all; at least not in my limited television-watching these days. Also, you don't hear about this on the Forum much. If it was a common occurrence, I think you would hear about it.

On another note, Bob Zmuda (writer for the late Andy Kaufman) was the original "Masked Magician." Years ago, on the failed program "Fridays" he exposed the Linking Rings while wearing a ski mask over his head while being "Interviewed" by Kaufman. (Zmuda was a P-Oed magician exacting revenge on "the Magicians' Union." MaxNY: There's a piece of video I'd like to get!)

Dustin

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Re: Exposure & Will Ferrell on Leno

Postby Jonathan Townsend » June 30th, 2005, 9:32 am

How about we get Ben Stein to deliver a lecture on how to use a stacked deck, with a bonus discussion of the Gilbraith Principle?
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

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Re: Exposure & Will Ferrell on Leno

Postby Richard Hatch » June 30th, 2005, 9:34 am

I didn't see the Ferrell bit, so this may not be directly relevant, but Dunninger used to begin his performance of the rings by displaying a small set (as in a magic set) showing a key ring, the chains of two and three, etc. then tossing them all offstage and claiming he'd now performing using ungaffed rings and the "true" secret. Of course, he just used a larger set of gaffed rings, coupled with masterful handling. Max Holden acclaimed Dunninger's performance of the rings as one of the very best. A showman and skilled performer won't be hurt by Ferrell's exposure...

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Re: Exposure & Will Ferrell on Leno

Postby Guest » June 30th, 2005, 10:20 am

Jonathan--Very funny!

And on a wild tangent--do you know Carolyn Grover Adams?

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Re: Exposure & Will Ferrell on Leno

Postby Terrence » June 30th, 2005, 10:44 am

Exposures can always be faked - ala sucker effects, or "The Inept Magician" burleske.

Remember Beverly Hillbillies - was it Jethro the Great?

Real exposure? Sure - for belly laughs at the conventions ala Pernell Zorch.

As for comedy writers - try creativity instead.

<edited for poor proof reading>

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Re: Exposure & Will Ferrell on Leno

Postby Frank Starsinic » June 30th, 2005, 10:46 am

Originally posted by Richard Hatch:
A showman and skilled performer won't be hurt by Ferrell's exposure...
Of course not. But it still shows either complete ignorance or complete disrespect and should be addressed.

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Re: Exposure & Will Ferrell on Leno

Postby Brian Marks » June 30th, 2005, 11:28 am

Linking Rings is exposed and over exposed by many bad magicians on a regular basis. Nothing was gained or loss by Will Ferrel doing this on the tonigh show. Nobody is going to come up to you after a show and say hey I know how its done because of Will Ferrel.

I like Will Ferrel.

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Re: Exposure & Will Ferrell on Leno

Postby Guest » June 30th, 2005, 11:50 am

I don't think it's reasonable to expect anything from the general public other than disrespect for magic and magicians. Sure, there are more of us on TV now than ever before (Blaine,Angel,Nu...I love 'em all)but aside from those guys most people's exposure to magic is the clown doing stratospheres or the guy who interupts your dinner conversation concerning your dying child and tries to make you hold sponge rabbits. What's to respect? WE respect magic because we have insider knowledge of just how artful it can be. Most people aren't so lucky.

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Re: Exposure & Will Ferrell on Leno

Postby Terrence » June 30th, 2005, 12:37 pm

and Ricky Jay and Paul Wilson...

Is this true only in the U.S., or is it world wide?

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Re: Exposure & Will Ferrell on Leno

Postby Curtis Kam » June 30th, 2005, 1:47 pm

Regarding Ferrell, if the choice was between exposing the linking rings (yet again) and him doing his oh-so-funny cheerleader gag, (yet again) I'd say the public got off easy.

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Re: Exposure & Will Ferrell on Leno

Postby Robert Allen » June 30th, 2005, 4:10 pm

I had to go to IMDB and look up Will Ferrell to try to figure out who he is. I was not surprised to find that I have only ever seen one of this movies, and I didn't enjoy it. No need to put him on The List, clearly he's already on it :) .

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Re: Exposure & Will Ferrell on Leno

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 30th, 2005, 9:37 pm

He's just another idiot making a cheap joke. Forget about it.
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Re: Exposure & Will Ferrell on Leno

Postby David Alexander » June 30th, 2005, 11:17 pm

I saw the promo for the show, saw Ferrell handling the rings and figured out what would happen. I didn't bother watching.

My memory of Andy Kaufman exposing the Linking Rings is a bit different. He did it himself and then exposed it.

Didn't Lenny Valentine also expose the basic set on one of his Fox shows? And nearly every kid magic set sold in this country for the last 80 years has had a cheap set of Linking Rings along with nearly every beginning magic book giving instructions for a routine.

You take out a pro set like those made by Merv Taylor or Owen Magic, handle them properly and no one will confuse them with the cheap magic set models. For Ferrell it was just a cheap laugh. Richard is right. This won't affect any of us.

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magicam
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Re: Exposure & Will Ferrell on Leno

Postby magicam » June 30th, 2005, 11:25 pm

Well Dustin,
Nobody yet has disputed your opinion. Maybe tv exposures a la Ferrell aren't so common after all. MaxNY? Any other moving picture collectors?
Clay

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Re: Exposure & Will Ferrell on Leno

Postby Dustin Stinett » July 1st, 2005, 12:17 am

David,

Its quite possible that Andy Kaufman did do it, but not on Fridays. But you do not have to take my word for it. Here is a picture of Bob Zmuda (THAT you will have to take my word for!) in the mask, standing with Andy Kaufman, who was surprised that the magician would explain the trick on TV.

As far as what Ferrell did, his stock has gone down in my eyes. Ive always considered him a fearless comedian; willing to do anything for a laugh. But he was usually the butt (sometimes literally) of the joke. This is just a cheap stunt that, frankly, I thought was beneath his talent. It wouldnt be the first time I was wrong.

Dustin

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Re: Exposure & Will Ferrell on Leno

Postby David Alexander » July 1st, 2005, 11:51 pm

Dustin,

Yes, I recall that, but on another program, at another time, Kaufman also exposed the rings himself. He was a kid magician doing parties when he was 8 or so and did some magic when he was in college. He knew about magicians and how we like our secrets.

He was a very strange guy with an offbeat sense of humor.

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Re: Exposure & Will Ferrell on Leno

Postby MaxNY » July 2nd, 2005, 5:20 am

When I was a teen, I competed in the rival High Schools talent show...my Dad welded a set of (5) macrame rings together for me. Mid- performance the key ring lost it's weld from the factory, and I was left with a 5" key! I acted suprised, said something like "Well, now you know how it's done... there's a hole in the ring"... Dead silence, killed-em next with the Anderson Newspaper tear, and bolted out of town."
---Does this kind of exposure(television) hurt, not really. What kills me is these summer camps that give magic lessons, those kids love to expose your stuff, for the amusement of others.

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Re: Exposure & Will Ferrell on Leno

Postby Gerald Deutsch » July 2nd, 2005, 5:34 am

Exposure ruins a magician's effect so that he may not be
able to perform it again. Magic is not a closed art and sure, people that
want to learn can go to a library but to explain the secret to those that
don't want to learn is exposure.

Penn and Teller did some beautiful magic and I always felt it was wrong of
them to expose and I had played with the idea of standing outside the
theatre and, as the audience left, passing out explanations of how they did
their best effects. Anything wrong with that?

Gary Ouellet was the biggest offender with his "Teach In's" on his "World's
Greatest Magic". He claimed he wasn't "exposing", he was "teaching". Well
you don't "teach" unless someone asks to learn. Ouellet was exposing. (In
his book "Close Up Illusions" Ouellet says "Don't tell them how it's done.
Under any circumstances. Ever." I love it when people make up rules for
everyone but themselves.)

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Re: Exposure & Will Ferrell on Leno

Postby mrgoat » July 2nd, 2005, 6:08 am

Originally posted by Gerald Deutsch:
Exposure ruins a magician's effect so that he may not be
able to perform it again.

Penn and Teller did some beautiful magic and I always felt it was wrong of them to expose and I had played with the idea of standing outside the theatre and, as the audience left, passing out explanations of how they did their best effects. Anything wrong with that?
a) Please explain, citing examples if possible, of exposure that has stopped a magician being able to perform an effect. It's nonsense. Exposure doesn't do anything of the sort. Linking rings can't be done cos of all the exposure? Rubbish. I do it all the time. As do thousands of people.

b) Penn and Teller have not exposed any illusion that they have not created themselves (You could argue the clear cups and balls did, but show me a cups and balls for two people in a text).

And feel free to expose the P&T tricks you invented for them outside their show, otherwise I don't think you have any right to!

Just chill, move on and take all this angry energy you have and use it for something constructive.

:)

Damian

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Re: Exposure & Will Ferrell on Leno

Postby Gerald Deutsch » July 2nd, 2005, 6:16 am

You misunderstand - I'm not angry. If exposure is ok then it should be ok for all not just the elite.

I find something wrong with "double standards" in political life and in magic.

You find it okay that someone like Gary Ouellet can make a strong statement against exposure and yet it's ok for him to expose? Why? Was he better than me?

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Re: Exposure & Will Ferrell on Leno

Postby Brian Marks » July 2nd, 2005, 8:57 am

Gerald, where is the double standard? There is no reason why you can not expose magic. You just can't stand in the lobby of the Rio hotel to do it. You certainly could expose magic.

Penn and Teller do not expose magic for the sake of exposing magic. Their exposure comes with a statement. They expose their burning the flag effect. The message has to do with respecting the first amendment. Their exposure of the box escape and their "blast off" illusion had to do with playing at the top of their audience's intelligence. Of course they are both libertarians and skeptics. They are both members of the CATO insititute and their show BullSh*t is all about exposing stuff.

Will Ferrel had no statement at all. He played to the bottom of his audience's intelligence. Not only that, I don't beleive what he did damaged magic at all. He wasn't exposing magic for the sake of exposing magic. He was doing a bit.


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