Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Discuss the latest news and rumors in the magic world.
Guest

Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Guest » June 24th, 2006, 8:32 pm

I know several non-magicians who perform this trick. It seems to be public domain as far as the public is concerned. I personally try to avoid any effect that I have seen performed by a non-magician. There are just too many good effects out there to choose from that are guaranteed to never have been seen by so called "muggles", or at least that use methods beyond their understanding.

Guest

Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Guest » June 25th, 2006, 2:39 pm

I guess what saddened me most was seeing Criss go from Mindfreak to Magician in season two.

Dancing hanks?

With a sponge rabbit ending?

I know, he's got a LOT of programming to do. I understand that, but I think he may be starting to dilute himself in the process.

The definition he gives of "Mindfreak" at the start of each episode tells of going beyond techniques used by average magicians.

I say again, "Dancing Hank?"

PLEASE don't turn this into just another TV magic show. (Oh, and lose the bling. Seriously, white boys can't do bling.)

Peace & Love
D

Guest

Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Guest » June 25th, 2006, 3:56 pm

Originally posted by John Wilson:
I know several non-magicians who perform this trick. It seems to be public domain as far as the public is concerned. ...
If we don't act to seperate the public domain of pranks from our domain of method, we may soon have nothing left but shame.

For the sake of argument, consider all data available online and in public books to part of the "public domain" as regards secrets.

Bob Klase
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Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Bob Klase » June 26th, 2006, 5:27 pm

Originally posted by Terry Terrell:
Most spectators who watch an exposure say "A Ha" and then move on with their lives. "Magicians" are the only ones who continue the wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth.

Get a life and get on with it.
There's valid arguments both for and against Angel exposing AOP. But I really don't think that's one of them since we could also say that about many professions and things that affect their profession- for example, "most people who see a bank robbery on the news say "gee" and then move on with their lifes. 'People in the banking industry' are the only ones who continue the wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth."

Guest

Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Guest » June 26th, 2006, 7:16 pm

It's been a week and the only defense has been that the ash trick is a simple and not worth getting upset about.

Still no response from the magicians involved. WHAT A SURPRISE!!!!

johnny thompson, RICHARD KAUFMAN and the rest should be defending ca.

What a joke, I guess we should just shut the
h-ll up and continue to watch the show and buy the magic they put on the market.

What will ca expose this week? Any guesses.

Guest

Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Guest » June 26th, 2006, 7:23 pm

Originally posted by Bob Klase:
...There's valid arguments both for and against Angel exposing AOP...
What're some of the valid arguments for?

Guest

Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Guest » June 26th, 2006, 7:55 pm

Who was it wrote:
Magicians guard an empty safe

?

Never were truer words written. I think that many people worry about the 'secret' getting out because it's only thing that makes their magic special. If everyone knows how it's done, they don't have anything left to offer.

Having just watched the WGMBTWGM video on Cards Across I have to tell you that's a BIG mistake. Not one of the performances on the video fooled me but nearly every single one delighted me. Because every performer on the video had something more to offer than just fooling me.

If you don't like what Cris has to offer don't watch. But don't worry about his exposing a few tricks. Nobody is losing work over the lipstick trick...

Guest

Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Guest » June 26th, 2006, 8:49 pm

Originally posted by Terry Terrell:
It must be really sad to think the performance of magic is based on knowing secrets.
It's not.... It's based on keeping secrets. Performing without exposing secrets, all the while "entertaining" the people by (shhhhh) FOOLING them!!

Get a life and get on with it.
...moving right along

Originally posted by Bill Duncan:
But don't worry about his exposing a few tricks. Nobody is losing work over the lipstick trick...
It's not about the stupid lipstick trick! It's ruining a magical performance by teaching a trick smack dab in the middle! :mad:

IT's all about fooling them! That's why your doing a MAGIC trick. If you can make them laugh, lift their spirits free, inspire world peace while fooling the pants off them the better... but if you ain't fooling them at least a little you ain't going far as a magician.

All the great magical performances I have ever seen have had a moment where I was fooled.

Tommy Wonder= fooled multiple times: cups, zombie the between the eye fooler of his pickpocket bit!
Copperfield= fooled bad from the front row, the first time and every time since; chair on the table vanish(DeKolta)
Michael Weber= fooled bad. pulled 14 packs of cigarettes out of his front jeans pocket! fooled bad.

... and none of them broke down that magician barrier/magic code even once.

Please, entertain me yes..FOOL me: double yes!

butt (and it's a big squishy one) don't expose secrets during a magical performance. I mean come on! :cool:

Guest

Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Guest » June 26th, 2006, 8:52 pm

Still no response from the magicians involved. WHAT A SURPRISE!!!!

johnny thompson, RICHARD KAUFMAN and the rest should be defending ca>>>>

Don't be silly. Mr. Kaufman is working with Criss on a mass-market magic book due out when, Richard? He's in business with Criss, as is Mr. Thompson. They're not going to say a WORD.

Always follow the money. (Not that this is either wrong or right. It just IS.)

A young friend of mine saw Criss last season and exclaimed, "What this dude does is REAL!" This season, he got as far as the AOP teach-in episode and now says, "Oh man, he's just another cheeseball magician."

Peace & Love,
D

Guest

Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Guest » June 26th, 2006, 9:12 pm

Bill,

If we don't speak up when someone exposes the lipstick trick, we better keep our mouths shut when they expose coins across or matrix or any other "Good" trick.

It's not a surprise that the magicians involved are to gutless to defined themselves.

I as a new magician, was under the impression that keeping the secrets was important, I guess not.

Maybe I should work on building an act were I expose the tricks right after I do them.

Cut & restored rope, coins across, matrix, all the differant levitation effects, some coin stuff from richards books, and some johnny thompson effects. That should be good for starters.

Richard, I'm looking forward to reading an article in genii entitled "exposing magic is ok if the $$$'s are good"

Stefan Fisher
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Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Stefan Fisher » June 27th, 2006, 4:45 pm

To paraphrase Jamy Ian Swiss: exposure is not an ethical issue, but it is bad theater.

David Britland
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Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby David Britland » June 27th, 2006, 5:18 pm

Pepke said:

"What concerns me more is the fact that the idea of doing this trick with lipstick was on a video by Greg Wilson a few years ago. I wonder if he was contacted. My guess is no."

I produced a UK television magic show featuring Danny Buckler back in 1998. Danny performed the ash trick using a borrowed lipstick in that show. The idea came from the wonderful Pat Page who was our magic consultant.

Another trick that got a brilliant reaction from spectators was.... The Haunted Matchbox. Yes, that old trick straight out of the novelty store. Once again it was Pat who convinced us to use the trick. He was right. He usually is.

Brian Marks
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Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Brian Marks » June 27th, 2006, 7:35 pm

Originally posted by Big Jeff:
I guess they should be told 'Don't expose the secrets UNLESS YOU'RE GETTING PAID A BUNCH OF MONEY'.

Just because most people don't rember what the masked magician exposed DOESN"T MAKE IT RIGHT!!!
ever buy something from a magic shop?

Guest

Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Guest » June 28th, 2006, 12:13 am

I don't think the magic shop analogy holds much water. If someone buys a decent effect from a magic shop, they at least have shown interest and have forked out some money. If they ever practice and perform, so much the better. If he/she buys an effect, learns the secret, and then stuffs it in a drawer without any interest (ergo: they were only interested in the secret, not the performance,) the art likely won't suffer. At any rate, the up-and-coming artist or disappointed victim to a dealer's demo has at least invested SOMETHING in pursuit of knowledge. I'd venture to say that most magicians got their start after witnessing an inspiring performance and then hunting down and devouring any magic book he/she could find. That takes work, effort, and genuine interest, if only for acqiring a taste of the art. Then, the question of whether or not to pursue the art further can truly be respected.

When "teach-a-trick" schemes are used to keep viewers watching through a commercial break, I do get annoyed. I was just as annoyed when the Pendragons exposed the vanishing cup in one of the WGM specials, as it relies on a principle that is used in many other effects.

I'm all for teaching magic to interested parties, and I do, but I'm not in favor of blatant exposure for ratings, money, etc.

Then again, are secrets the real issue here? A wise man recently stated in a new book that, while magicians tend to believe they are protecting the secrets from the spectators, they are really (or at least should focus on) protecting the SPECTATORS from the methods, as most methods are simply boring.

Still, I also would like to see a reply from someone involved in the Angel specials.

Bill

Guest

Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Guest » June 28th, 2006, 2:50 am

This is just one part of it.

Anyone who can use Google can easily and quickly find the explanation part of his levitation DVD

How many people are looking? How many people care?

Will it put him out of business?

It's all over the place at the moment, You Tube, etc. What real harm will be done? I doubt very much...

Terry
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Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Terry » June 28th, 2006, 6:10 pm

'People in the banking industry' are the only ones who continue the wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth."
Actually, you're wrong and reaching way out there on the analogy.

Having worked for locally owned as well as statewide banks for 15+ years, we never worried about bank robberies. We were told, give them the money because we had insurance to cover it.

The coveting of secrets is what makes most lay people consider magic a geek hobby. The "grand" secrets have been exposed for centuries and yet, magic is still around as a performance art for a few. The rest are those whose only sense of power is in hoarding their little secrets.

Guest

Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Guest » June 28th, 2006, 7:27 pm

Sources say the July 5th episode will include Criss doing a corporate gig to launch a new beer.

A new beer.

*sigh*

In all fairness, I don't know if I'd be able to resist whoring myself out to a sponsor with enough dollars, but it still makes me sad to see yet another artist suck the big sell-out teat.

Peace & Love,

D

John LeBlanc
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Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby John LeBlanc » June 28th, 2006, 8:51 pm

Originally posted by DeeBrennan:
In all fairness, I don't know if I'd be able to resist whoring myself out to a sponsor with enough dollars, but it still makes me sad to see yet another artist suck the big sell-out teat.
Whoring? That's an awfully nasty term to apply to a part of the world of magic that allows the artistic end to continue being artistic.

I met an artist at a fundraiser two nights ago. Her work was absolutely incredible. And the prices on her originals were equally incredible. In my opinion, she was still an artist in every sense of the word.

That said, I don't consider Criss Angel an artist. I consider him a successful entertainer, and I am a fan.

John

Guest

Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Guest » June 28th, 2006, 9:23 pm

Originally posted by Brian Marks:
ever buy something from a magic shop?
Completely different argument. A magic shop has NOTHING to do with "the bad theater" of exposing a magic trick during a show. :rolleyes:

James Kernen
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Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby James Kernen » June 28th, 2006, 9:31 pm

If you do a google search about Cxxxx's "exposure" on levitation, this website is at the top of the list (or at least the top ten)... so the more we complain about it, the more we draw attention to it..................................

Guest

Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Guest » June 28th, 2006, 9:39 pm

Next time someone offers me $$ to show them how a trick is done, should I hold out for a set price or just take what they offer?

What do you think richard?

James Kernen
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Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby James Kernen » June 28th, 2006, 9:44 pm

To Big Jeff.. I would ask why you did the trick in the first place? If it was for money, only you would know the answer to your question....

Guest

Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Guest » June 28th, 2006, 10:03 pm

I'm much more disappointed in Criss 'hold-for-edit' Angel resorting to using camera tricks, borderline CGI, and oversaturating his effects with cuts/edits than I am with him exposing Ashes on the Palm.

I think Ashes is a wonderful effect, and I hope every layperson forgets what they saw, but labeling him the 'new masked magician' might be a little premature.

My best,
David

Guest

Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Guest » June 28th, 2006, 10:40 pm

Ashes on the palm was last week this week it was the salt shaker through table. I won't even complain because it won't do any good.

Will the S.A.M.or the I.B.M. do ANYTHING about this?

We all know they won't. Keeping secrets is for the beginner and the magi who don't have tv deals with old magicians as advisers.

I was asking richard how much I should charge to expose the tricks I do.

Guest

Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Guest » June 28th, 2006, 11:14 pm

Originally posted by Big Jeff:
If we don't speak up when someone exposes the lipstick trick, we better keep our mouths shut when they expose coins across or matrix or any other "Good" trick.
Agreed. Which is why youll rarely hear me complain when that happens either

It's not a surprise that the magicians involved are to gutless to defined themselves.
I think it more likely that your posts have convinced them that you are not persuadable, or they believe there is nothing to defend.

I as a new magician, I was under the impression that keeping the secrets was important, I guess not.
Good that you learn it now. It took me a dozen years to get there. I stopped worrying about exposure when I realized that the ONLY reason laymen care about how its done, is that they think someone is keeping that information from them. People are always interested in things they cant have. The emphasis and worry about keeping secrets, creates a division between you and your audience. Worry more about meeting their needs and dont stress so much about getting caught. Fool them, yes. But make the magic about something more than that and they wont care how its done.

I have a layman friend who likes to show me video links to magic tricks on the web and offer ideas about how the tricks are done. Instead of responding to his questions I just ask him about what he likes or dislikes about the trick, and try and get him to consider what the trick is about.

Maybe I should work on building an act were I expose the tricks right after I do them.
As Jamy Swiss has written, exposure is (generally) bad theater. But Penn and Teller (and others) have managed to use exposure to good theatrical end. It seems a weak theme for an entire act.

Guest

Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Guest » June 28th, 2006, 11:29 pm

Originally posted by Bill Duncan:
But Penn and Teller (and others)
Penn and Teller seem to pull it off as part of their act, NOT as a magic lesson. I think they are different. Yet another fine line we must look at. I personally think a magic lesson during your show is dorky.
:D


as for the "others"... i don't think so. Not enough to change minds anyway. or not memorable enough to pull it off without looking silly. :)

Guest

Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Guest » June 29th, 2006, 12:05 am

So Criss has already gotten to the point that he needs "teach a trick" to add a bit of filler?

Guest

Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Guest » June 29th, 2006, 4:57 am

Originally posted by Chris Aguilar:
So Criss has already gotten to the point that he needs "teach a trick" to add a bit of filler?
Next stop, a contest or makeover segment?

Guest

Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Guest » June 29th, 2006, 5:17 am

Next stop, a contest or makeover segment?
Next up, on Criss Angel's Mindfreak: Criss helps a local chapter of magicians work on their top changes and workout techniques.

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Steve Bryant
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Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Steve Bryant » June 29th, 2006, 6:12 am

The teach-a-trick segments are simply boring. Even the stooges can't feign interest. That clicking sound out there is the channel being changed away from A&E. I hate it, because this series started out with such promise.

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Bill Wells
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Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Bill Wells » June 29th, 2006, 6:23 am

Big Jeff -

In your post you asked:

"Will the S.A.M.or the I.B.M. do ANYTHING about this?"

The two societies have a joint statement against exposure. The I.B.M. has supported other efforts against exposure in the past. I am not as familiar with the S.A.M. However, the worst publishment either group can really hand out if the offender is a member is to expel them from their membership.

Public statements or letters to TV networks against exposure often only serve as fodder for publicity by the networks.

What would you suggest the two organizations should do?

Bill
Bill Wells

Guest

Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Guest » June 29th, 2006, 6:33 am

As it happens, the IBM and SAM are social clubs that serve magicdom in ways that go far beyond the "rules" which are actually more like guidelines or suggestions.

The open doors and social aspects may weigh more in favor of non-action in this issue.

In a world where secrecy is taken seriously we might get something like this:

Originally posted by Bill Wells:
...What would you suggest the two organizations should do?
Aside from the immediate expulsion of the offender, withdrawal of public support for their activities and word that all their products are no longer endorsed and that any association with that person may be grounds for explusion...

open minded.

What do you suggest Bill?

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Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Terry » June 29th, 2006, 6:59 am

Aside from the immediate expulsion of the offender, withdrawal of public support for their activities and word that all their products are no longer endorsed and that any association with that person may be grounds for explusion...
Wouldn't this be liable under restriction of free trade?

The IBM and SAM only have meaning inside the world of magic. They have no teeth in the real world.

It is the viewing public at large that determines the success of a TV show and not the small number of magicians boycotting.

Guest

Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Guest » June 29th, 2006, 7:11 am

Originally posted by Terry Terrell:
Originally posted by Jon Townsend[b] ...all their products are no longer endorsed and that any association with that person may be grounds for explusion...
Wouldn't this be liable under restriction of free trade?...[/b]
Products in this case referring to those in magic.

Though again I don't see such a tact as useful in this case and likely not useful in our society as it stands. My feeling is that open doors are more valuable than disciplinary actions.

What we need is a consensus on when "teaching" is useful and what material can be taught and in what contexts. From that we can get on to questions about what we want as rules and how we want to enforce rules.

Again, just my perspective... I would get queasy if he did the poker chips into glass thing and then in the next moment explained it. Probably for the most part because it was unannounced. Maybe that's the source of my annoyance with the "teaching" segments on the show.

Guest

Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Guest » June 29th, 2006, 7:48 am

I would like to see this exposed next week...

Angel picks an audience member to stand next to him. He holds up a blanket, drops it and the spectator vanishes.

After the commercial break he explains that the spectator is in on the trick and actually rehearsed this with him previously. Once he holds up the blanket, the camera turns off and the spectator walks away. The camera rolls again and he drops the blanket...Presto - the girl has vanished. "Now you too can do this at home with your video camera....But I still hold all TV rights"

Or would giving this away hit too close to home??

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Pete Biro
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Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Pete Biro » June 29th, 2006, 8:57 am

The IBM/SAM can't even police their own.

EXAMPLE: Some years back Paul Daniels came up to me and said, "I can't believe it... I just had dinner with the chairman of the IBM ethics committee and he told me that he didn't get much reaction out of the Professor's Nightmare UNTIL HE STARTED TO USE MY PATTER AND PRESENTATION."

Next day I happened to be lecturing and my opening commentary was the quote above.
Stay tooned.

Rick Ruhl
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Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Rick Ruhl » June 29th, 2006, 10:37 am

Pete,

Is there any thread on the Castle message board about this topic?

Guest

Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Guest » July 4th, 2006, 10:19 am

WOW...I have not watch Criss angel in a week..but man, he has always disappointed me, and I think he has gone too far.

Ashes on arm is something almost everyone uses to reveal a force.

Did he show everyone how to force something too?

Guest

Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Guest » July 4th, 2006, 10:50 am

The reason Criss angel's "teaching" tricks is because he has a book coming out and by showing some of the good stuff on TV, more people will be inclined to by his book. It just business.

He mentioned something about the book on a public radio interview. And in that same interview, he told listeners that they could learn to levitate like him by buying his Levitation DVD on his website.

On Amazon I came across this passage which was written by someone as a review for his mind freak season 1 DVD which I thought might be of interest.

**"Many magicians know that Angel is a fake. Originally, he wanted to have his band get a record deal, so his parents financed his hobby. In fact, they took out a mortgage to buy him illusions after he saw Arioch (The FIRST Hard Rock Illusionist) on MTV with Skid Row and Motley Crue. He used to tell club owners in New York that he was just using magic as a gimmick to get his band signed. Apparently, his mommy will give her boy as much money as he wants to buy toys, and he steals from magicians who actually work for what they have. after David Blaine made it big, Angel claimed to be the greatest street magician. Lance Burton used a robot illusion, a few months later, Angel had one. Simon Drake used assistants in cool outfits, Angel copied that. Anyone can buy TV time and illusions, but they will never be able to buy talent. If Angel didn't have so many paid stooges and rich parents, he would still be trying to get his band signed. Hopefully he will get signed, and leave magic to the magicians. FORBES magazine wrote that he screwed up an escape and had to scream for his crew to let him out. How lame can you get? Copperfield, Blaine, Burton, Arioch, and others have no competition with this clown."**

Guest

Re: Criss angel--the new masked magician.

Postby Guest » July 5th, 2006, 10:38 pm

Maybe Chris is short handed with good tricks so he must fill the gap exposing tricks to keep the audience tuned in!


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