A salvaged tutorial

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Tom Stone
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A salvaged tutorial

Postby Tom Stone » March 25th, 2023, 11:48 am

There's a lot of fringe skills that are useful to magicians, but rarely are taught in the magic books. Like, how do you make a good disc for the Hydrostatic Glass, or how to drill holes in glass. Or how to mold a prop. Or how do you do those crochet balls for Cups and Balls? How do you sew a good Devil's Hank... Some years ago, I had the idea of making a tutorial site for those kinds of fringe skills, and decided to build it on a proper LMS (Learning Management System).
The LMS was pretty complex, and it soon became clear that I wouldn't understand how to set it up, if I didn't have any actual content to experiment with. So just to have some 'placeholder' content, I assembled a course about the Elmsley and Jordan Count. Not really representative for the content I wanted to have, but it was something I could make in a hurry.

As it turned out, the whole thing was way too complicated, and by now it have been left untouched for several years. It was pretty clear that I would never get it going, so I just deleted it all.
But just before I did that, I copied the dummy tutorial and posted it on my own website, because who knows, someone might find it useful?

It is found here: Elmsley and Jordan False Counts.

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: A salvaged tutorial

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 26th, 2023, 8:01 pm

I think an Elmsley Count is a fairly simple sleight to teach.
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Tom Stone
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Re: A salvaged tutorial

Postby Tom Stone » March 27th, 2023, 4:20 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:I think an Elmsley Count is a fairly simple sleight to teach.

Indeed. The topic for the 'dummy' tutorial was simple... the software I tried to use was not.

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Q. Kumber
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Re: A salvaged tutorial

Postby Q. Kumber » March 27th, 2023, 7:03 am

There's a lot more to Tom's tutorial than learning a false count and the lessons therein can be applied to many sleights.

Ken Brooke used say that if the timing is right and the move not quite right it will fly better than the move right and the timing wrong.

Obviously it's better if both are right.

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Re: A salvaged tutorial

Postby Ian Kendall » March 27th, 2023, 8:54 am

For a long, long time the count was not taught in an efficient manner.

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Re: A salvaged tutorial

Postby Leo Garet » March 27th, 2023, 12:32 pm

Ian Kendall wrote:For a long, long time the count was not taught in an efficient manner.

Seeking information here and not wishing to sound contentious, but when did the Elmsley Count start to be “taught in an efficient manner”?

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Re: A salvaged tutorial

Postby Ian Kendall » March 27th, 2023, 3:55 pm

In recent times. I think Roberto Giobbi went into some detail in one of the Card College books, but from my point of view, the first column I wrote for Basic Training in 2009 broke the move down into its constituent parts, and then reassembled them into the Ghost, and later the Jordan counts. Much as Tom did in his tutorial.

I encountered the count in 1986 as part of Rainbow Cascade; the instructions were a tad confusing for a relatively new magician - several actions were explained briefly to happen at the same time, which greatly slowed down the speed of learning the sleight. If you go back through various early descriptions, it's usually taught in the same way; a running timeline of action, with no detail of the intermediate steps.

I came at explaining the move from a background in teaching, and applied the skills I had from that part of my life to trying to make the count easier to learn.

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Q. Kumber
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Re: A salvaged tutorial

Postby Q. Kumber » March 27th, 2023, 4:45 pm

The description in More Inner Secrets caused all the problems. It is not how the Elmsley Count should be done in other tricks but it is how it should be done as Vernon did it in Twisting the Aces.

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Re: A salvaged tutorial

Postby Peter Ross » March 27th, 2023, 8:57 pm

I think the original impulse for a place where magicians could share "fringe skills," is a good one. Among the ones Tom mentioned I would add Maker-type skills for building props with 3D printing and laser cutting. I recently was looking for info on the best ways to add hinges to 1/8" plywood (the thickness used for laser cutting). There happened to be a very old thread about it on Magic Cafe. I think a simple forum category would be helpful, something called Maker Magic or some such. Would the Genii forum be amenable to adding a category?

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: A salvaged tutorial

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 27th, 2023, 10:16 pm

Peter, I actually don't know how to do that, and the people who knew how to use this software have evaporated as time has progressed.
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Paco Nagata
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Re: A salvaged tutorial

Postby Paco Nagata » March 28th, 2023, 11:28 am

"Tamariz Rabbits" routine is basically another presentation about Elmsley's "The Four Card Trick."
A perfect example of showing different magic by the same procedure.

Wonderful tutorials, Mr. Stone.
Thanks a lot for sharing them!
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Re: A salvaged tutorial

Postby Leo Garet » March 28th, 2023, 2:02 pm

Q. Kumber wrote:The description in More Inner Secrets caused all the problems. It is not how the Elmsley Count should be done in other tricks but it is how it should be done as Vernon did it in Twisting the Aces.

I accept that in “More Inner Secrets Of Card Magic,” the Elmsley Count is described/taught to accommodate “Twisting The Aces,” but even though I read the book when I was only nine years old (give or take) I had no trouble learning it from Lewis Ganson's description. And no trouble at all adapting the move to other things.

I did start “counting” into dealing grip early on, without recourse to anybody else, but the fundamentals I learned from Ganson stayed in place. This was possibly facilitated by the fact that I “count” into a right hand dealing grip.

Although I’m “officially” right handed and deal cards from my right hand, in Card Circles I am deemed to be left handed.

Apropos of nothing in particular, I recall a natter with Peter Kane in which he said much the same, though he did “count” into his left hand. In the same conversation he talked about the Hamman Count, which he’d learned from Brother John Hamman’s contemporary 1958 book, written by Paul Le Paul. Peter made great use of the Elmsley Count, but even greater use of the Hamman Count in his marketed tricks. As did Joe Riding, to digress even further.

Back on topic, I think, any number of early books tended to defeat me because they demanded fringe skills. One of my uncles had a workshop (actually a shed) and he made some props for me, including a fab magic table. I’d still be trying to knock nails in wood now if he hadn’t come to my rescue.


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