Performing Deception: Learning, Skill and the Art of Conjuring

Discuss the latest news and rumors in the magic world.

Edward Pungot
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Interpreting Deception: Memory, Cognition and the Science of Conjuring

Postby Edward Pungot » August 16th, 2022, 11:29 pm


Bibliophage
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Re: Performing Deception: Learning, Skill and the Art of Conjuring

Postby Bibliophage » August 19th, 2022, 10:59 am

Just wasted unrecoverable time spent reading the Rappert nonsense.

Without the flight time, you don’t have insights, you have unfounded opinions.

Edward Pungot
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Re: Performing Deception: Learning, Skill and the Art of Conjuring

Postby Edward Pungot » August 19th, 2022, 11:55 am

I’ve just read a few pages and what I’ve read so far is interesting (piecemeal approach). I think it’s exactly his neophyte nature with his social sciences background that makes this tome worthy of attention. You as a jaded reader get to experience the beginner’s mind as a sociologist trained mind enters our small little world. I think that’s what initially caught my attention.

It’s likened to a foreigner visiting the States for the first time and commenting on the peculiarities of the culture.

Magic is a strange interaction from a social perspective. So looking at it with fresh eyes from a sociologist looking in might indeed be worth a closer look.

But my opinions may change since I’ve only just started.

Maybe this tomb might be more to your liking. It was republished by Kaufman & Greenberg back in the 90s and was also written by a sociologist. I haven’t read it yet, but the title is intriguing.

Title: ROAD HUSTLER: Grifting, Magic, and the Thief Subculture
Author: Prus, Robert C. and C.R.D. Sharper

Bibliophage
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Re: Performing Deception: Learning, Skill and the Art of Conjuring

Postby Bibliophage » August 20th, 2022, 7:50 am

Edward,

Thank you.

I have long enjoyed your observations, opinions and personal contributions here on the forum.

Oddly, I had relatively large disagreements over your most recent suggestion the first and second times it was published, except for the exceptional Steranko cover art.

Tarotist
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Re: Performing Deception: Learning, Skill and the Art of Conjuring

Postby Tarotist » August 20th, 2022, 11:31 pm

There was once a book written by two sociologists about wicked people like myself. In other words grafters. I have no idea why Americans use the silly word "pitchmen' when the correct word is grafter (no not "grifter"---GRAFTER!). After all this is a British word and since we British are an older and far wiser nation it is our nomenclature which should be used.

When I first started to read the book I was scoffing at the idea of two innocent and not worldly wise sociologists penetrating our world which is sort of semi secret. However, I was quite wrong and severely underestimated their insight and resourcefulness. They produced a really excellent and perceptive book entitled "The Hard Sell". I tend not to scoff at sociologists any more as a result. One of the authors actually posted on this forum a couple of times.

MagicbyAlfred
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Re: Performing Deception: Learning, Skill and the Art of Conjuring

Postby MagicbyAlfred » August 23rd, 2022, 8:30 pm

Tarotist wrote:There was once a book written by two sociologists about wicked people like myself. In other words grafters. I have no idea why Americans use the silly word "pitchmen' when the correct word is grafter (no not "grifter"---GRAFTER!). After all this is a British word and since we British are an older and far wiser nation it is our nomenclature which should be used.

When I first started to read the book I was scoffing at the idea of two innocent and not worldly wise sociologists penetrating our world which is sort of semi secret. However, I was quite wrong and severely underestimated their insight and resourcefulness. They produced a really excellent and perceptive book entitled "The Hard Sell". I tend not to scoff at sociologists any more as a result. One of the authors actually posted on this forum a couple of times.


Based on this synopsis, it sounds like they really studied the topic in depth:

"Between 1984 and 1994 sociologists Clark and Pinch video recorded over 75 pitching routines on street markets and other sales sites throughout the UK, mainland Europe and the United States. Using examples of pitchers attracting a crowd, describing and demonstrating their goods, building bargains, cajoling the unconvinced to make a purchase and coping with problem customers, the authors reveal, for the very first time, the reasons for these traders’ extraordinary success—both on and away from the markets. Comparing their findings with more orthodox sales situations—direct response TV home shopping and infomercials, as well as other forms of grass-roots selling (fly pitching, the mock auction sales con, street entertaining and urban ‘hustling’)—the authors highlight many important lessons that have relevance for everyone involved in all types of marketing, advertising and persuasion."

I am going to pick this book up. Not only does it have Mark's endorsement, but it sounds fascinating, and I would imagine one could learn quite a bit about the psychology of persuasion that would be useful to a performer and in life at large.

Tarotist
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Re: Performing Deception: Learning, Skill and the Art of Conjuring

Postby Tarotist » August 23rd, 2022, 11:55 pm

I have had email conversations with Professor Clark and I have always appreciated his book. Interestingly enough I think he said that either he or is co-author had a certain interest in magic at one time. Anyway the book has indeed got great insights on streetwise salesmanship and marketing.

Tarotist
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Re: Performing Deception: Learning, Skill and the Art of Conjuring

Postby Tarotist » August 24th, 2022, 7:41 am

There is another book by a sociologist on magic which I have somewhere. I suspect only the author and his mother have read it. It actually also has interesting and astute insights even though the book has been written by a Canadian. I can't remember the name of the author or the rather obscure title. If I ever get time (which I doubt) I will try to fish out the book and convey the information.

Jonathan Townsend
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Re: Performing Deception: Learning, Skill and the Art of Conjuring

Postby Jonathan Townsend » August 24th, 2022, 12:05 pm

Any suggested sources for learning what to do after presenting an effect and getting that deer-in-the-headlights reaction from people?
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

Edward Pungot
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Re: Performing Deception: Learning, Skill and the Art of Conjuring

Postby Edward Pungot » August 24th, 2022, 6:11 pm

psychopomp (part of your job description from way back)
- would look good on a business card
- return silence with more silence

Jonathan Townsend
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conjuring spirits?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » August 25th, 2022, 9:21 am

? psychopomp - take a card; AS; come with me? :(

Edward Pungot
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Re: Performing Deception: Learning, Skill and the Art of Conjuring

Postby Edward Pungot » August 25th, 2022, 10:34 am

You “killed” on stage tonight.
Often when the magic or any performance is strong, why are such strong words used? Perhaps it’s because you took them on a cathartic journey of sorts. Light entertainment maybe just the adventure of the props. But some reach a little higher. And even fewer hit the target. Of course there is a safe return all under the guise of entertainment. But there is always deeper meaning and history to these seemingly tribal-trivial pursuits.
(just trying to digest and process your initial question)

Tarotist
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Re: Performing Deception: Learning, Skill and the Art of Conjuring

Postby Tarotist » August 26th, 2022, 7:01 am

Jonathan Townsend wrote:Any suggested sources for learning what to do after presenting an effect and getting that deer-in-the-headlights reaction from people?


I don't think I have ever had that reaction. What does it look like?

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Tom Frame
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Re: Performing Deception: Learning, Skill and the Art of Conjuring

Postby Tom Frame » August 26th, 2022, 9:14 am

Jonathan Townsend wrote:Any suggested sources for learning what to do after presenting an effect and getting that deer-in-the-headlights reaction from people?


Do nothing. Say nothing. That is the look of astonishment. Don't intrude on the experience we strive to evoke. Let them marinate in the magical moment, because it is precious and fleeting.

MagicbyAlfred
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Re: Performing Deception: Learning, Skill and the Art of Conjuring

Postby MagicbyAlfred » August 26th, 2022, 11:26 am

I captured this with my iPhone camera right after stunning him with my invisible classic pass. It was a beautiful moment for both of us.
https://www.wnep.com/article/entertainm ... 29d491d2e0


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