Jerry Sadowitz at the Edinburgh Fringe

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BarryAllen
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Re: Jerry Sadowitz at the Edinburgh Fringe

Postby BarryAllen » August 14th, 2022, 4:54 am

Not surprised - that's the way things roll these days.

Whilst his humour isn't particularly my cup of tea, people buying tickets for his shows know in advance thar they aren't going to be listening to a lecture about basket-weaving.

The sheer hypocrisy here within the UK annoys me somewhat. Our News can show the sickening horror of people blown to pieces in illegal wars. It can show people dying of famine. It can show (and write about) people fleeing for their lives across the English Channel, demonised as human-beings not worthy of us reaching out to help.

However, a (very talented) performer has his shows cancelled, because his act is considered 'inappropriate'.

I wonder how many of those making this decision to ban Jerry's shows have never told an 'inappropriate' joke; nor forwarded an 'inappropriate' joke or message via WhatsApp? I'd guess none of them.

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Re: Jerry Sadowitz at the Edinburgh Fringe

Postby Ian Kendall » August 14th, 2022, 2:50 pm

There's been a lot of discussion about this today, obviously. In order to understand the events, I think it's important to know the background of the Fringe, otherwise it's just a case of shouting 'snowflakes have censored a show', which would be grossly misunderstanding the situation.

The Pleasance is one of the 'Big Four' venues (and, prior to the arrival of Underbelly about 15 years ago, was one of the Big Three). It has a strong reputation to uphold, but that's not the end, or even the beginning of the story. Pretty much every venue outside the Free Fringe have a solid curation of their shows; one has to apply to most places in order to get a slot. Venues like the Pleasance pride themselves on a good spread of acts, and this is usually accepted by the real people when they are buying tickets.

This is not the first time the Pleasance has cancelled a show mid-run (and I'm sure it won't be the last). The most high profile was Eric Douglas in the 90s, but that's a whole story in itself. There have been several others that I have heard about but did not know).

One argument is that whoever booked Jerry, or greenlit the booking, >must< have known what they were getting. Maybe. It's a long time since Jerry has been in the mainstream over here, but he did have enough heft to book the EICC, which is a bloody huge conference centre, for a 75 minute show (almost all other shows are either 50 or 55 minutes). There's a chance that the booker knew that Jerry was 'edgy', but probably hadn't seen him live.

Then there's the argument that anyone buying tickets for a Sadowitz show should know what to expect. Again, maybe. I'm assuming that whoever complained probably hadn't seen Jerry before; maybe someone saw the name, recognised it, and thought 'let's go and see this person'. Maybe they had seen one of his TV shows from the 90s which were very sanitised compared to his live work. Maybe they had no idea and bought a ticket for a show in the Pleasance that had good press. Any, or all, could be true. But there were complaints, and like with Eric Douglas, the Pleasance moved to protect their brand; [censored] sticks, and in this climate, accusations can linger far longer than the event that precipitated them.

One thing that has been hard to pin down today has been what it was that triggered the complaints. The first is that Jerry was using racial slurs to describe a UK politician that is trying to be our next PM. The recent emboldenment of the far right all over the world means that it's much, much harder to do 'ironic' jokes about race; acts like Ricky Gervais can write characters that say the unsayable, but it's harder to clear the blurred lines when it's just someone saying them. The other sad aspect is that some members of the audience will not even try looking for irony, and embrace what is said as an honest opinion. Certainly in the UK at the moment, this is very possible.

The second trigger was that Jerry took out his junk and waved it at a woman in the audience, while making lewd remarks (and this is alleged, because I'm going on news reports here). If this is the case, it's entirely possible that this would have triggered the complaints, and it's more likely, I think, that this would cause the immediate closure of the show.

The bottom line is that >someone< who was at Jerry's show thought that it went too far, and the Pleasance agreed with them and acted to protect their brand. Whether the first person was right is completely subjective, but the venue agreed with them enough to close what would have been a very lucrative show.

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Dustin Stinett
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Re: Jerry Sadowitz at the Edinburgh Fringe

Postby Dustin Stinett » August 14th, 2022, 3:11 pm

I am a defender of freedom of expression. But I also understand that the owner of the house gets to decide where the water's edge starts and stops. That's one of their freedoms.

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Re: Jerry Sadowitz at the Edinburgh Fringe

Postby Tom Moore » August 14th, 2022, 3:31 pm

When one’s whole career is to be counter-culture and pushing against the norms time plays a cruel trick over overtaking you when you least expect it.

Also I have a feeling pleasence’s reaction has more to do with the fact the show wasn’t selling as well as expected - well by comparison to most festival shows but poorly based on expectations and the chosen venue. Jerry will be back; just not at this level.
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Re: Jerry Sadowitz at the Edinburgh Fringe

Postby Bob Farmer » August 14th, 2022, 3:59 pm

Did the waving of the junk cover the Chop Cup load?

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AJM
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Re: Jerry Sadowitz at the Edinburgh Fringe

Postby AJM » August 14th, 2022, 4:05 pm

Jerry is scheduled to do a show in my home town in early September, albeit in a much smaller room - I wonder if the good burghers of Livingston, West Lothian will have a change of heart.

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AJM
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Re: Jerry Sadowitz at the Edinburgh Fringe

Postby AJM » August 14th, 2022, 4:08 pm

Bob Farmer wrote:Did the waving of the junk cover the Chop Cup load?


No, but there was an interesting take on the Zombie....

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Re: Jerry Sadowitz at the Edinburgh Fringe

Postby Marco Pusterla » August 14th, 2022, 4:27 pm

According to the press:
It was not clear if the allegedly exposed genitals were a prop.


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Re: Jerry Sadowitz at the Edinburgh Fringe

Postby PressureFan » August 14th, 2022, 5:41 pm

"Did they fund the Mapplethorpe exhibit?"

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Re: Jerry Sadowitz at the Edinburgh Fringe

Postby Richard Kaufman » August 14th, 2022, 5:47 pm

Too bad the woman in the audience didn't have a mousetrap.
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Re: Jerry Sadowitz at the Edinburgh Fringe

Postby MagicbyAlfred » August 14th, 2022, 6:13 pm

He should'a stuck with the Goshman Ding Dong. But it sounds like what really sunk him were the racist comments. There's pretty much zero tolerance for that any place, any time, these days.

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Re: Jerry Sadowitz at the Edinburgh Fringe

Postby BarryAllen » August 14th, 2022, 7:26 pm

These adults were at an alternative comedy event - so I daresay not sitting in dinner suits and ball gowns, waiting for three acts of Madama Butterfly.

UK TV has a dating show called 'Naked Attraction' - which shows full-frontal nudity throughout. Other shows, plays, films, etc. on UK TV also show full-frontal nudity. These aren't personally my 'cup of tea' whatsoever - BUT are people so insecure and shockable these days that they'll get offended when a bloke flashes his john thomas? What's the big deal? Have these audience members spent their lives in convents and monasteries?

Racism - as a Socialist, I don't support racism when it leads to social or cultural exclusion, hatred, unfair treatment, etc. due to skin colour, religion, etc.
However, the term Jerry apparently used was simply a slang term relating to Sunak's geographical origins. So what? I'm a Cockney - have I ever taken offence when I've received stick for being a Londoner, or for my 'barrow boy' accent? One of my best mates is from Liverpool - has he even taken offence at receiving the usual stereotypical shoplifter jokes?

Personally, I've got no time for Sunak - an utterly incompetent, lying, privileged UK politician. Would I use that term used by Jerry? No, not personally - it's not my style. However, it comes a day after our potential next Prime Minister (Liz 'Gormless' Truss) referred to her admiration for Jewish people because they were focused upon 'setting up their own businesses'. Apparently, this was 'stereotyping' and 'offensive'. Really? As a lad who was born and grew up in one of London's most densely populated Jewish areas (Whitechapel), my Jewish mates would have completely agreed with this comment. They were superb businessmen - and quite rightly, proud of their business culture and ethics. Would they have taken offence? Not a chance in hell.

In this sad World of hatred, pain and suffering, it helps to lower boundaries and just have a laugh about life at times. Clearly, some people think differently. That's their choice.......but what right do THEY have for spoiling the entertainment of others?
Last edited by BarryAllen on August 14th, 2022, 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Jerry Sadowitz at the Edinburgh Fringe

Postby Richard Kaufman » August 14th, 2022, 7:35 pm

Any generalized statements about a particular ethnic group are offensive. As for calling Sunak a "Paki," well, that's totally out of line. It's no different than calling me a "kike."
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Re: Jerry Sadowitz at the Edinburgh Fringe

Postby BarryAllen » August 14th, 2022, 7:55 pm

I wonder what would have happened if he had referred to one of his fellow Scotsmen as 'Jock'?

Or called an Irish man 'Paddy'?

Or called a Welsh man 'Taffy'?

My guess? Not a lot.

But what's the difference?

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Re: Jerry Sadowitz at the Edinburgh Fringe

Postby Tarotist » August 14th, 2022, 8:46 pm

I suspect Jerry may have a spiritual side to his nature. About eleven years ago International Magic asked me to fly to London to give a lecture on Palmistry, Tarot and kindred matters. I had so much to say that in the end it had to be spread over two days. Hours and hours of me trying to explain this stuff. Now I would somehow not have associated Jerry Sadowitz with metaphysical interests of this kind so I was surprised to see him there. I was even more surprised to see him viewing the lecture with rapt attention and showing intense interest over the entire two evenings. At the end of it all he approached me and informed me that it was the best lecture he had ever been to which of course indicated to me that he was a man of astute judgement. However, it also showed another side to him that was in great contrast to the usual image of a great card magician and obscene, outrageous comedian. For someone to be interested in this stuff and sit through hours of it shows a certain depth that might not be apparent on the surface.

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Re: Jerry Sadowitz at the Edinburgh Fringe

Postby Roger M. » August 14th, 2022, 11:21 pm

Like it or not, 2022 is "woke" ... and racist, offensive, 60 year old men waving their willy's in an audience members face won't ever fly in this particular point in history.

Sadowitz knows what he does, and he does it all very specifically by design and to get a reaction ... in this case he got his reaction, and he's probably absolutely fine with it all ... because in case anybody hasn't been paying attention, Sadowitz simply doesn't care about stuff like this.

Maybe it's just me, but as much as I can appreciate Sadowitz and his history with original card magic, I find him irrelevant in 2022.
His departure from the festival would seem to confirm that I'm not alone.

(And Sadowitz certainly ain't no Ricky Gervais)

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Re: Jerry Sadowitz at the Edinburgh Fringe

Postby CraigMitchell » August 15th, 2022, 4:25 am

Considering that Sadowitz had pretty much fallen off the radar - it will be interesting to see if this global bout of publicity reignites his career or permanently sinks it. I'm inclined to believe it's going to help his brand.

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Re: Jerry Sadowitz at the Edinburgh Fringe

Postby Tarotist » August 15th, 2022, 7:43 am

Oddly enough I suspect (and I admit I may well be wrong) that if he did a complete turnaround in his work and to everyone's astonishment suddenly became as clean as a whistle and performed in such a way that your maiden aunt would not be offended it would send such a shock wave through the industry that it would give his career a new momentum. I expect some publicity would emanate from it and he would be given a new lease of life. Death of the old and beginning of the new. Emphasise the magic more (and that has always been done in a clean wholesome manner) and put the controversial comedy aside. Be a MAGICIAN! It would be a complete new start. Reinvent himself in other words. It might just create a minor sensation!

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Re: Jerry Sadowitz at the Edinburgh Fringe

Postby Ian Kendall » August 15th, 2022, 2:08 pm

Don't hold your breath...

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Re: Jerry Sadowitz at the Edinburgh Fringe

Postby MagicbyAlfred » August 15th, 2022, 3:11 pm

CraigMitchell wrote:Considering that Sadowitz had pretty much fallen off the radar - it will be interesting to see if this global bout of publicity reignites his career or permanently sinks it. I'm inclined to believe it's going to help his brand.


P.T. Barnum once said, “There’s no such thing as bad publicity.” Oscar Wilde had his own version: “There’s only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about.” Yes, there will be people who will avoid him like the plague, but I would imagine most of them wouldn't have gone to his shows even absent what occurred at Pleasance. His brand is shock comedy, and now he will be known to be even more shocking than before. He is also now on the radar screen of many people who may not even have been aware of him previously. A goodly portion of those people will undoubtedly have disdain for him, but there will also be those who will clamor to buy a ticket. And, the profit motive being quite alive and well (as always), there are likely to be plenty of venues that don't care what the hell he says, or who he offends, as long as he makes them money. There's only one thing for certain: Disney won't be one of them.

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Re: Jerry Sadowitz at the Edinburgh Fringe

Postby BarryAllen » November 16th, 2022, 8:32 pm

Jerry must be doing something right - the Hammersmith Apollo has around 3,300 seats.

Here's a pretty good write-up:
https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2022/ ... llo-london

Just to pitch this, The Guardian (my favourite daily read) is one of just two daily newspapers in the UK that sits somewhat 'left of centre'.

However, their columnist/comedy critic certainly appear to have enjoyed the show - awarding it 4 Stars out of 5.

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Re: Jerry Sadowitz at the Edinburgh Fringe

Postby Tarotist » November 16th, 2022, 11:05 pm

I am glad to hear this. Life is a game of Snakes and Ladders. I get a feeling he has gone down too many snakes and not up enough ladders.
I am glad to see another ladder for him.

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Re: Jerry Sadowitz at the Edinburgh Fringe

Postby Ian Kendall » November 17th, 2022, 3:19 am

For sake of completeness, more information came out a bit later about the ban.

The venue was the EICC, which is a large conference centre run by Edinburgh Council, with a permanent staff of union members. There were also the usual cohort of students working as temporary venue staff for the Pleasance. It was the staff, and the young temps, who said they would not work with Jerry again, not the people who had bought the tickets (and these are people who would not usually go to Jerry's shows).

Faced with a total walkout of staff, which would have meant every other show was also cancelled, the Pleasance canned Jerry instead.


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