Australians and Romanis

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Tarotist
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Australians and Romanis

Postby Tarotist » August 7th, 2022, 10:51 pm

For some reason beyond my comprehension our member Pressure Fan on a different thread requested me to expound on Australians and Romanis. Alas my psychic ability is weakening so I have absolutely no idea what he is referring to. All I know about Australians is that they walk about upside down all day and are mostly descendants of convicts.

As for Romanis I don't know much about them either except that a lot of psychics I know pretend to be Romani but aren't really. In any event I have no idea what Pressure Fan is referring to or why he wants me to comment on this mysterious matter. Perhaps he can clarify why he wants me to expound on this and why he thinks I am qualified to talk about it.

Dave Le Fevre
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Re: Australians and Romanis

Postby Dave Le Fevre » August 8th, 2022, 2:41 pm

I'm equally puzzled. Ever since the initial "accusation", I wondered what was being hinted at so unsubtly.

Still puzzled. Oh well.

PressureFan
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Re: Australians and Romanis

Postby PressureFan » August 8th, 2022, 4:47 pm

Sorry, my mistake. I had him confused with someone named Performer.

Dave Le Fevre
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Re: Australians and Romanis

Postby Dave Le Fevre » August 8th, 2022, 5:09 pm

Oh, ok. So long as you weren't confusing him with someone named Mark Lewis.

MagicbyAlfred
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Re: Australians and Romanis

Postby MagicbyAlfred » August 8th, 2022, 5:39 pm

Alas, discussions on magic continue to be scarcer than hens teeth. But being semi-retired now, I find myself with a good deal of free time on my hands, and I've already practiced 3 Card Monte and my new CSB routine for 3 hours today, so rather than let my mind atrophy any further than it already has, I'm going to chime in on this.

I can not speak for Pressure Fan (although I can make a pretty good one), but I would speculate that he was making an oblique reference to the traditional practices of Romani people in Australia, one which I suspect was not necessarily intended to be -- well, I'll leave my commentary there...

Much to my surprise there's actually a fairly lengthy article in Wikipedia on "Romani people in Australia."
Here are some (what might possibly be pertinent) excerpts:

"The Romani people in Australia are citizens of Australia who are of Romani descent. They are sometimes referred to as Gypsies or Roma. Most Roma in Australia trace their roots to the United Kingdom and Greece, who in return trace their roots to northern India.

...The Romani community is underrepresented in Australian society, and is commonly referred to as the ‘invisible community’ Many members are not registered on the electoral roll, nor do they identify as Romani in the census. Reasons behind this include the nomadic lifestyle of many Roma, where they temporarily live in various states and regions, and fear of discrimination.

In Australia, the Romani community engages in many traditional practices, including marriage, fortune-telling, nomadism and poetry writing.

...Within Australia, the group's lifestyle has become a point of contention. Historically, Romani practices have been largely opposed by government bodies. Throughout the 1900s, traditions such as child marriage and fortune-telling were disputed in national courts. For instance, Rosy Sterio's lawsuit against her husband in 1926 highlighted tensions between Western and Roma values. Rosy Sterio, an underaged girl, accused her husband of assault, however the case was eventually dismissed as it was considered a ‘tribal feud’. The court's opposition to child marriage ultimately prevented them from achieving justice for the Romani community."

The full article can be found here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_pe ... _Australia

Tarotist
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Re: Australians and Romanis

Postby Tarotist » August 8th, 2022, 5:51 pm

I am no wiser I am afraid. I do vaguely remember some references to Australia by performer in times past although I am not sure what those references were about. However, I certainly don't remember anything about Romanis of any kind let alone Australian ones.

Joe Lyons
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Re: Australians and Romanis

Postby Joe Lyons » August 8th, 2022, 5:58 pm

performer wrote:Naturally I have come across quite a few gypsy psychics. I am not saying they are unscrupulous of course. I shall merely say that if business was slow they would be happy to sell their children.

Tarotist
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Re: Australians and Romanis

Postby Tarotist » August 8th, 2022, 6:09 pm

Joe Lyons wrote:
performer wrote:Naturally I have come across quite a few gypsy psychics. I am not saying they are unscrupulous of course. I shall merely say that if business was slow they would be happy to sell their children.


Ah yes! I do remember that. However, since then I have discovered that these people are not necessarily gypsies although that it is the word that is commonly used by other psychic practitioners, magicians and members of the public. They are fairly criminal in their operations but aren't actually gypsies. They come in all sorts of racial stereotypes and I won't mention the most common otherwise things can get out of hand.

BarryAllen
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Re: Australians and Romanis

Postby BarryAllen » August 9th, 2022, 9:44 pm

I've been to Australia twice (2017 & 2019); both times visiting the South West of Western Australia; before heading over to Sydney. The first time was business-related; the second trip was a holiday for 'she who must be obeyed'. Both trips were undertaken in a Motorhome - it's the best way to explore a Country; albeit I'm somewhat biased as I adore the outdoor camping lifestyle.

Generally, I've found Aussies very laid back people. They tend to tell it as it is; and there really doesn't to be much evidence of any class system, irrespective of wealth. Many places on this planet could most certainly take a leaf out of that particular book!

My only criticism really is the existing disdain by some Aussies of the Aboriginal (First Nation) People. Their comments and outlook don't sit comfortably in the 21st Century; and I'm far from being politically correct! No surprise really that these derogatory remarks primarily eminate from some older folk who are still living in the 1970's - but thankfully, the outlook of younger folk is much more reasoned and acceptable. Indeed, the culture generally appears to have been changing for some time - thankfully for the better. As an aside, some of the most welcoming, friendliest and humble Aussies I've met are the Indigenous folk. What a surprise - not!

The other thing about Aussies that surprised me is that they are obsessed with gambling! You cannot visit a Bar without horse-racing on multiple TV screens; and the floor and tables are littered with crumpled, losing betting slips. Thinking about it, if you are adept at a decent Centre Tear, you could tell people the name of the horse and how much they'd just lost......or maybe not. Bets are placed via an online ticket machine; and winnings are paid from a cash booth attendant situated in the pub. Next to this, Slot Machines (or as they term them - Pokies) are literally everywhere People sit feeding them for hours; and there are some incredibly high payouts. I've been told that 60% of the World's Slot Machines are in Australia; with the Territory of New South Wales the highest spend in gambling, per head, than anywhere else in the World. Gambling has never interested me whatsoever - so I can't have any Aussie DNA. I can only assume that certain members of my family were shipped there long before I was born.

Magic-wise, it seriously appears to be a market to tap into. There doesn't appear to be a raft of Magicians and close-up/table-hopping appears non-existent. Indeed, during my 2019 trip, we attended a family member's wedding in Sydney. At his Stag Night (or their term - 'Bucks Party') and at the Wedding itself, the normal rubbish that I carry in my pockets went over somewhat well. As for the Palm Reading.......I better not say or Richard might get the hump. ;)

Let's just say that I wish I was a much younger man - as I think I'd be booking a one-way Qantas flight and seeing what happened over the following year. Suffice to say that I can see a lot of potential across Australia; and I'd unreservedly recommended youngsters to give it a go - particularly if they reside in the current godforesaken hellhole that is the UK!

Gypsy/Romany-wise, I could tell you lots! I bet even Mark doesn't know this.

I was actually adopted from a Barnardo Childrens Home in 1970 by Irish Gypsies. As a very young boy, I then went on the road as part of a fairground crew. The woman who adopted me left me regularly with her Mother - Queenie; so Queenie became my Gran. She recognised my Pyschic ability immediately - and it was actually her that taught me Palmistry. In Romany Folklore, the elder has to pass on the skill, preferably to a younger person, or its considered selfish within their community to take this knowledge to your grave; and extreme bad luck and ill health can befall family members.

That, of course, is all just complete and utter codswallop.

However, I've spun that yarn many times over the years when I've been asked "so how did you get into palm reading then"? I have never had anyone disbelieve it. Maybe drinking Guinness (my favourite pint) helps to cement the story. In any case, it just sounds better than "oh I learnt it from a manuscript that I bought from my mate Joe Riding, back in the 1980's".

Well there ya go. My overview for what it's worth (not a lot!) on Aussies and Gypsies.

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Re: Australians and Romanis

Postby Tarotist » August 10th, 2022, 2:08 am

I actually got to talk to some Irish gypsies once. They are called "tinkers" in Ireland and are not necessarily well regarded by everyone. I can't remember the circumstances but for some reason I actually ended up in one of their caravans. They were quite surprised that I could read palms and one of them said in great awe, "I have never heard of a gentleman doing it'. They were quite friendly until some older tinkers arrived and did not seem to approve of my presence so I decided to scarper.

I did learn a little bit of their fortune telling methods. It was more of a set script than anything else that they said to everyone. They always had a line which went something like this, "in your hands there is a line which is holding you back. It is a curse handed down". They would then attempt to get more money so they would remove the curse. However, they would only ask for a small amount to remove said curse. When I came to Toronto it was a matter of thousand of dollars being handed over for a more sophisticated version of the scam.

As for Australian opportunities I am sure you are correct. I heard that when Joe Stuthard moved to Australia from the UK in his first year he made an absolute fortune with the svengali deck. I nearly went myself when I discovered that an Irish promoter of exhibitions I knew had set up a company in Australia doing the same thing. However, I never followed through. Incidentally, I still remember that particular promoter warning me not to go up a hill outside the exhibition while a riot was going on. This was at the Londonderry Ideal Homes Exhibition. It was after the exhibition and time to go home. He saw me outside going up the hill and called out, "Hey magic man, don't go up there ---you will get killed. We want to see you here tomorrow" Of course I probably hadn't paid him what I owed him yet!

I was actually visiting Northern Ireland almost the very first week the "troubles" broke out in earnest. I can assure you all that I had nothing to do with it.

BarryAllen
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Re: Australians and Romanis

Postby BarryAllen » August 10th, 2022, 4:00 am

Tarotist wrote:They were quite friendly until some older tinkers arrived and did not seem to approve of my presence so I decided to scarper.


Were they each clutching a pack of Svengali's and shouting "Oi Mister....we've all got the same force card - the Noin of bloody Hearrrts" :twisted:

That's an interesting ploy about the reward to remove a curse. I could include that in my spiel somewhere; explaining that although thats what I was taught, I could never stoop so low purely for financial gain.

I forgot about Joe Stuthard moving to Australia. It was covered upon your superb blog, if memory serves me right?

I did find a Magic Shop in Sydney; I needed to buy a hank of rope to do Cut & Restored at the Wedding. It was in the City Centre somewhere and had quite a lot of stock - albeit the usual shelves of DVD's. A pretty strange character ran it - who, upon picking up my cockney accent, went into some rather weird cold reading about how I was a successful entertainer who worked on a cruise ship, that had docked in Sydney Harbour the previous day. I assured him that I wasn't; and when he kept banging on along this theme, I told him to study the eyes more as his hit/success rate was somewhat poor. I think the advice flew straight over his head. Looking around at prices in the shop, I too would have been somewhat poor had I hung around. I generally treat myself to a book - as I like to support bricks and mortar shops but he had nothing of interest reading-wise that I didnt already have. Australia IS generally a very expensive Country for most things. As a smoker back in 2017, I could have fainted buying my first pack of 25 ciggies.

As an aside, my Wife was born in Londonderry - although thankfully remembers very little about the place, moving to England as a toddler, in 1974. It's a small world dear chap!

I really must buy your book as I'm sure that your time in Northern Ireland is a particularly fascinating read. Thank God that common sense has prevailed over the past 25 years.

Joe Lyons
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Re: Australians and Romanis

Postby Joe Lyons » August 10th, 2022, 6:35 am

Tarotist wrote:
I did learn a little bit of their fortune telling methods. It was more of a set script than anything else that they said to everyone.


When I was in my twenties a friend and I were taking a road trip. We saw a fortune teller’s sign and on a lark stopped to get our fortune told. She insisted on seeing us one at a time.

We compared notes after we were both finished. Turns out we had the exact same future.

BarryAllen
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Re: Australians and Romanis

Postby BarryAllen » August 10th, 2022, 6:56 am

Joe Lyons wrote:
Tarotist wrote:
I did learn a little bit of their fortune telling methods. It was more of a set script than anything else that they said to everyone.


When I was in my twenties a friend and I were taking a road trip. We saw a fortune teller’s sign and on a lark stopped to get our fortune told. She insisted on seeing us one at a time.

We compared notes after we were both finished. Turns out we had the exact same future.


What type of reading was it Joe - tarot, palm, etc?

When I started out on Cold Reading (again using the Joe Riding Psychic Course), as Mark alludes to there are set scripts that, once learnt, would literally cover everyone.

However, with Cold Reading, I have found that it is someone's eyes that truly give away whether you are hitting correctly - or going off-piste.

As for Palm-reading - I only really do character analysis, rather than fortune telling (albeit there is sometimes a slight overlap). Suffice to say that I don't ask for any confirmation during a palm-reading, I simply stick to what the hand detail offers me. Despite what some may believe, the accuracy is quite incredible.

Joe Lyons
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Re: Australians and Romanis

Postby Joe Lyons » August 10th, 2022, 7:46 am

BarryAllen wrote:
Joe Lyons wrote:
Tarotist wrote:
I did learn a little bit of their fortune telling methods. It was more of a set script than anything else that they said to everyone.


When I was in my twenties a friend and I were taking a road trip. We saw a fortune teller’s sign and on a lark stopped to get our fortune told. She insisted on seeing us one at a time.

We compared notes after we were both finished. Turns out we had the exact same future.


What type of reading was it Joe - tarot, palm, etc?

When I started out on Cold Reading (again using the Joe Riding Psychic Course), as Mark alludes to there are set scripts that, once learnt, would literally cover everyone.

However, with Cold Reading, I have found that it is someone's eyes that truly give away whether you are hitting correctly - or going off-piste.

As for Palm-reading - I only really do character analysis, rather than fortune telling (albeit there is sometimes a slight overlap). Suffice to say that I don't ask for any confirmation during a palm-reading, I simply stick to what the hand detail offers me. Despite what some may believe, the accuracy is quite incredible.

She read our palms.

Tarotist
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Re: Australians and Romanis

Postby Tarotist » August 10th, 2022, 8:10 am

BarryAllen wrote:
Joe Lyons wrote:
Tarotist wrote:
I did learn a little bit of their fortune telling methods. It was more of a set script than anything else that they said to everyone.


When I was in my twenties a friend and I were taking a road trip. We saw a fortune teller’s sign and on a lark stopped to get our fortune told. She insisted on seeing us one at a time.

We compared notes after we were both finished. Turns out we had the exact same future.


What type of reading was it Joe - tarot, palm, etc?

When I started out on Cold Reading (again using the Joe Riding Psychic Course), as Mark alludes to there are set scripts that, once learnt, would literally cover everyone.

However, with Cold Reading, I have found that it is someone's eyes that truly give away whether you are hitting correctly - or going off-piste.

As for Palm-reading - I only really do character analysis, rather than fortune telling (albeit there is sometimes a slight overlap). Suffice to say that I don't ask for any confirmation during a palm-reading, I simply stick to what the hand detail offers me. Despite what some may believe, the accuracy is quite incredible.


I should explain that I do not use any type of cold reading although of course I know about it. It isn't necessary and I am no bloody good at it anyway. Under no circumstances would I dream of using fraudulent set scripts which apply to everybody. After all most of my readings are recorded by the clients. I use genuine palmistry based on the lines of the hand not on guesswork. I don't know why it works but it is extremely accurate. As for the Tarot you will be pleased to know I learned it from Joe Riding who I knew fairly well. I learned how to do the Tarot from two sources. One was an excellent book called Tarotmania by Jan Woudhuysen and the other was from a little book that Joe wrote on the subject. As you know Joe was a very talented and versatile entertainer. Not only could he do a good stand up cabaret act he was also a good close up magician, psychic reader and memory expert. In fact he wrote a book for the public that I suspect you might not know about since he never advertised it for magicians. He advertised it in a new age magazine and I purchased it. It is actually a memory training book with a difference. The content is geared on how to memorise astrological, Tarot and kindred subjects using mnemonics.

One thing that surprised me about Joe's Tarot book was that one day I asked Richard Webster, renowned authority on psychic subjects where he learned the Tarot and he took me aback by saying he also learned it from Joe's book! I have actually written a book on the Tarot myself which is somewhat based on Joe's system but I have expanded on it to such an extent that I can claim in my usual modest manner that it is the best book ever written on the Tarot. For one thing I suspect it is the only Tarot book out of the thousands that are out there that has an entire chapter on ethics. Oh, and also an entire chapter on how to make money! No, the two chapters are NOT in contradiction with each other. I have also explained exactly why the Tarot works in such a way that even sceptics might accept. Not that I care a toss if they don't..............

I suppose while I am here I should advertise this masterpiece of world literature. It is called "Streetwise Tarot" and can be ordered here:
(second book down) https://www.marklewisentertainment.com/ ... cians.html

I honestly believe that the Tarot is the most powerful divination system known to man and I believe 100% in it.

PressureFan
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Re: Australians and Romanis

Postby PressureFan » August 10th, 2022, 10:28 am

“I wonder that a soothsayer doesn’t laugh whenever he sees another soothsayer.” -Cicero, De divinatione II, xxiv

Tarotist
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Re: Australians and Romanis

Postby Tarotist » August 10th, 2022, 10:47 am

I know lots of soothsayers who know other soothsayers and converse with each other all the time. I see them doing this at the psychic fairs. They do occasionally laugh and they certainly gossip a lot (even more than magicians). However, one thing I have noticed over many years. They never talk about trickery of any kind. In fact they quite dislike it. They talk about their "guides" and other spiritual subjects. They even give each other readings. They are all very sincere in their beliefs.

MagicbyAlfred
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Re: Australians and Romanis

Postby MagicbyAlfred » August 10th, 2022, 11:12 am

Tarotist wrote:I know lots of soothsayers who know other soothsayers and converse with each other...and they certainly gossip a lot...


"Psst, Don't tell anyone I told you this, but you won't believe what that soothsayer three tables down is going to do next Christmas day."

Tarotist
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Re: Australians and Romanis

Postby Tarotist » August 10th, 2022, 11:30 am

They do say exactly things like that! Not through psychic ability though. They are awful gossips and seem to know everyone's business! My favourite is when they see a psychic they don't like (usually someone new in the business) they tend to snort, "Oh, she isn't a real psychic!"

BarryAllen
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Re: Australians and Romanis

Postby BarryAllen » August 10th, 2022, 4:34 pm

Tarotist wrote:They do say exactly things like that! Not through psychic ability though. They are awful gossips and seem to know everyone's business

In the UK, we call them Northerners.


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