FISM 2022 Day 4

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CraigMitchell
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FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby CraigMitchell » July 29th, 2022, 1:31 am

FISM 2022 Day Four

The morning crowds are starting to thin … only the FISM die-hards remain.

Lets see what we had on offer in Thursday’s Stage Gala Contest.

1. Andrea Rizzolini – Mentalism
Ominous opening with five volunteers passwords being revealed. Phone placed in plastic bag – visually unlocked … ending with all the phones in the audience starting to ring which didn’t quite happen.

2. Vadim – Comedy
Magician with a fake cast allowing for a ‘hidden hand’. Nice visual of a levitating cast which saved the act.

3. HJ – General
“Son of Man” painting brought to life with incredible make-up, texture and more. Being stuck in a giant picture frame box is somewhat limiting but did allow for some amazing ( wait for our official theme of FISM 2022 ) … objects suspended in time.

4. Cody Stone – General
Started the act by nearly swearing when the Alexa speaker production didn’t go to plan. Having a drone pop out your table is not magic.

5. Zippo Guo – Manipulation
Card manipulation with images of Facebook likes. CD manipulation with pictures of emojis. Using social media imagery doesn’t automatically make one’s act interesting. Phone vanishes at the end by flipping it round the back of his hand except we can still see the light of the screen visible.

6. Antioche et Zegora – Comedy Magic
Comedy magic is not a free pass for mind-numbing stupidity. Sparkling tuxedo, angry wife and what looked the production of a giant tampon ( which I’m told was actually a toilet cleaner )

7. Mago Larry – Mentalism
Convoluted set of revelations resulting in Louis Armstrong and Neil Armstrong reveal with a serial number match somewhere in between.

8. Elliot Hunter – General
Elliot – whilst no doubt a nice guy – who has put a lot of work into his performance, presented a wholly unoriginal and uninspired act that was straight out of 1990 complete with vanishing canes, fans, silks, and jumbo card fans from the dealers room. It was a cookie-cutter performance.

9. Javi Rufo – Manipulation
Tailor bringing a white clown costume to life with ball manipulation, juggling, clown hat and giant ball productions.

10. Nao Murata – General
Tina Lenert-esque floating zombie shirt with shadow projection at the end. Not quite sold on the production of laundry from your dead spouse’s jacket.


THURS CLOSE-UP

1. Lihao – Micro
Ceremonial cups, appearing beads, water bowls and a stunning appearance of a flower growing from the hand.

2. Rubi Ferez – Micro
Arriving from the side of the theatre – eating yogurt. A ‘Don’t touch’ sign sees all manner of magic unfold from appearing coins, scrumpled ball from cup, coin made visible as it passes through a ring ending with a cup filled with yogurt yet again.

3. Shane Cobalt – Cards
Nervous performer with John Scarne inspired routine finding the aces.

4. Mr Triton – Micro
Top hat. Fake moustache. Soft-boiled egg production along with an ipad turned into a menu. Wine from ipad. Bill from Ipad ending with the performer trapped in the ipad. Surprisingly strong response for what is an okay act at best.

5. Martin Eisele – Cards
High hopes were dashed as the act was underwhelming. Shuffle-bored with a borrowed deck.

6. Daniel Mormina – Parlour
Hideous blue tuxedo, questionable slight of hand whilst awkwardly grabbing cards from under table. Redeeming feature was making cards vanish from under legs of stool with lady seated atop.

7. Miguel Ajo – Cards
All white rubics cube to colored cube. Cards tapped and change to match poker chips. Overhead camera was finally used but head (and bald spot) blocked most of the view.

8. Ed Ripley – Parlor
Suit that is ill fitting. Balls that got stuck multiple times in the cups. Chain stuck in microphone. Cups and balls as a rapper ( which lay people found highly offensive ) Cups and balls as Forest Gump / Forest Trump. World’s slowest quick change. Horrible switch of cups under the table. How is this the best American magic has to offer?

9. Jacob Schenstrom – Micro
Direct and clean two cup routine. Red and while ball switching places. FISM trend – ball suspended mid-flight. Throwing the ball in your jacket does not constitute a vanish.

10. Vincent – Parlor
Incredible act of the heard and heart. Hyper-visual magic … plays piano whilst solving cube with one hand. Stunning performance on an elevated level.

11. Pepo Capel – Cards
Three blank cards. Past present and future. With everything turning into the three of spades.

12. Luis Olmedo – Micro
Coins from maple leaf and matrix with cards … ending with beautiful visual moments.

13. Alec – Cards
Forgot his cards and ran off stage to fetch them. Stickers on cards with cards changing to match the labels on them.

14. Willy Monroe – Micro
A mini-proscenium arch on the table with the performer poking their hands through introducing the Righteous and Leftist hand brothers. Levitating rubics cube through ring and triangle and square rubics cube metamorphosis. A new level of surreal. And not in a good way.

15. Josep Vidal – Cards
Locates signed card by touch with card eventually ending up in spectators blindfold.

16. Juan Colas – Micro
Birds chirping in the background ( or nesting in performers hair ). Haunted deck with thread visible and a very odd ladybug running about supposedly doing the card magic.

INTERVENTION
We need an intervention in the US. Considering that FISM is taking place in North America – one would have expected a large number of US acts. Instead there are hardly any competing – and those that are, sadly, are middling at best. America can surely do better?

The persistent problem I note is that performers are continually told how fantastic they are ( they win first prize in IBM or SAM ) … and then head to FISM where they come crashing down to reality. Months and months of work – all go entirely into the wrong direction prefaced by posts of “its his moment of FISM glory” by the relevant supporters and fans. What a horrible way to set someone up for disappointment.

The echo chamber that is developing in magic is frightening and has been getting worse over the years. If your intention is to compete and do well at FISM – arriving with a vanishing cane and a magic act that could have been seen in 1990 – is not the way to do it. Someone should have told the performer so that the efforts and talents can be directed into building something special and unique.

An act may have been wonderful at the local regional level but that is not a ringing endorsement for high level magic … it is an uncomfortable truth unfortunately. The sad reality is that if you are the North American candidate at FISM - your act is likely not going to be particularly good and it has been that way for nearly a decade! In the last ten years, the US has placed just once at FISM! That is extremely revealing. The US continental FISM event is just not attracting the level of talent it should be and it’s a major concern. Why is America not developing the shining stars it used to in the world of competition acts?


BANQUET

It perplexes me why convention organisers offer banquets. They are expensive. Seldom done well. And always cause complaints. Wine was free – you had to pay for soft drinks. There was no menu. Food was luke-warm. Non-existent décor. And the stage and speeches were done in darkness. Far more trouble than it is ever worth.

THURS GALA SHOW

The Mysterious Gala or a train wreck of a show that had no magic. Somewhere, somehow, someone forgot that this was a magic convention that required magic in the magic gala show. Starting 15 minutes late we have Alain Choquette and John Archer as cohosts. Jared Kopf with the linking rings – wearing something that looks like he’s been to hospital and bandaged his head ( still waiting for the magic ). A trapeze act ( still waiting for the magic ). Eric le Clerc was our stand-up comedian ( still waiting for the magic ) Alain performed the gypsy thread with overdone narration ( a little bit of magic ). Jaana had a chair attached to piece of thread ( if you make something float, you do need to disprove the use of thread ) Still no magic. John followed with a Bank night routine ( a tiny bit of magic ) … ending with a balancing ballerina act! We imported two ballerinas from Asia but no one thought of booking an actual magician for the magic gala show. Alain’s snowstorm was too ridiculous to mention. The only redeeming feature of this disaster ( besides confirming that the budget had all but been expended on the opening gala show ) was getting to see Michael Ammar dressed as the pope.

It's now 1:20 am and the contest starts in less than 8 hours. Pls forgive the typos.

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Q. Kumber
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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby Q. Kumber » July 29th, 2022, 4:01 am

CraigMitchell wrote:Cups and balls as a rapper ( which lay people found highly offensive ) Cups and balls as Forest Gump / Forest Trump.


Why were there lay people at the competition and why did they find the performance offensive and the magicians didn't?

And thank you for the continued updates.

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby Dr. Solka » July 29th, 2022, 7:17 am

By far the best reviews without exaggerations, I had the pleasure to read about FISM!

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby Tarotist » July 29th, 2022, 8:48 am

Number 13 amuses me greatly because the same thing happened to me once in Germany where I was doing a card act on stage at US army bases. I got on stage and realised I left my cards in the dressing room! Since it was the only prop in the act it could have been a disaster especially as this was not a close up show but an audience with hundreds of rowdy soldiers! However, unlike poor Alec I did not have to run off stage to get them. I was lucky enough to spot the MC and ask him to go to the dressing room and get them off a table. I managed to chatter away on stage about nothing in particular until he returned with the cards.

Incidentally that MC was a very eminent magician of the time. I learned a lot from working with him. His name was Jerry Bergmann. He was one of the better magicians. His name seems to have faded into oblivion. Does anyone remember him?

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby Anthony Vinson » July 29th, 2022, 9:24 am

Q. Kumber wrote:
CraigMitchell wrote:Cups and balls as a rapper ( which lay people found highly offensive ) Cups and balls as Forest Gump / Forest Trump.


Why were there lay people at the competition and why did they find the performance offensive and the magicians didn't?

And thank you for the continued updates.


I saw the act at the recent IBM convention, and while I did not find it offensive, I did find it thoughtless and juvenile. A middle-aged white guy morphing from tuxedo to stereotypical rapper wear and breaking into stylized rhymes? High school, or maybe college freshman level parody at best. Certainly not FISM-level from my perspective.

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby Tom Frame » July 29th, 2022, 9:52 am

CraigMitchell wrote:FISM 2022 Day Four
Why is America not developing the shining stars it used to in the world of competition acts?


Perhaps America's shining stars aren't interested in competitions.

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby I.M. Magician » July 29th, 2022, 10:08 am

Maybe, at this time, magicians from the US do not want to risk getting Covid by traveling so far and being among so many others.

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby Brad Henderson » July 29th, 2022, 10:28 am

What to say?

First, I don’t see how Craig does it. The endurance - mental; emotional, and physical - required to watch all the contest acts . . . I can’t do it.

Today I saw the stage contests. The American act was insulting and offensive to anyone who cares about magic. This isn’t art. It’s backward thinking, self indulgent, magic crap that should have been put out of its misery 30 years ago. What the F#%k is a kid doing with a cane? Unless he has cancer or an ingrown toenail this is anachronistic at best and thoughtlessness at worse. I’m reminded of the bad Chavez acts that would produce a ball and then pose demanding ‘applaud me’ before vanishing the ball and posing demanding ‘applaud me’. Before showing both hands - with an unmotivated body turn followed by a pose - ‘applaud me’.

This is everything that’s wrong with magic and I was ashamed by those who responded enthusiastically.

We need to do better.

There was precisely one act of any interest today - HJ. And you know what, he gets it. Because the act acknowledges what any thoughtful person knows to be true, most magic acts (especially those created with the intent to be ‘great’ ie contest winners) are boring. It was self referential - art about art - but it began approaching something really interesting. I won’t go so far as to suggest it reaches the heights of that realized by the surrealists, but there were moments that certainly evoked the comparison.

I only saw a few of the close up acts. People loved Mr Triton. Yes, this was better than anything I saw in the contest today, but it’s still the de rigueur iPad based nonsense that was interesting 10 years ago, but to his credit his version looked great. I didn’t find the act, however, deceptive. Maybe seeing it ‘live’ as opposed to having to see it on the screens would have changed this - but the steals were pretty obvious. Nevertheless, the personality and story were fun, the entire mis en scene thoughtfully conceived, and while the character switch/costume change theme is now commonplace, it clearly resonated with the crowd. It’s also a parlor act done with small objects. It’s not closeup. Closeup is more than proximity and size of the props.

The Miguel Munoz lecture was insightful. Years ago I asked Rocco about how he applied Slydini’s strategies to stand up magic. He seemed unable to articulate any cogent reply. Munoz has answered those questions and has created several well considered theories with applications that validate that thinking.

Dani DaOrtiz presented an hour of being Dani. I find his shows exhausting - which he revealed during his lecture was as one of his intents. But to me, it isn’t the result of being required to be mentally engaged in the performance - it’s like being hit with a firehouse on full blast for an hour. It’s an isometric tension that exhausts us. And certainly contributes to the methodological deceptiveness of the experience.

I’m more a peak and valley guy myself.

But he knows how to construct magic that devastates magicians and most of those in attendance certainly were. I say most not to appear too cool for school - but he has taught many of his primary techniques and one can see him employ/deploy them throughout his performance. He isn’t a madman, he’s methodical. And his techniques certainly work as intended in his hands. I say this not to criticize his performance but to praise his teaching.

Unlike many, I actually liked the gala show likely because of all the reasons people seemed displeased. Plus, I think their complaints point out some wonderful hypocrisies.

First, I love magic as much as anyone, but even in the finest of restaurants they bring out a scoop of sorbet every now in then to cleanse the palate. Frankly, with watching as many of the context acts as I have, I’m finding myself becoming bored and angry. How much if the same attempts to impress with technique can we take/tolerate?

Unlike last nights show, this show was simple in concept and well executed. Was it cutting edge or progressive ? No.

But every act came and delivered and wouldn’t it be nice if more magicians could hurdle that basic bar.

John and Alain were amiably hosts and genuinely funny, though the jokes did get a bit repetitive. But their opening banter was great and I’d rather watch an hour of that than 5 minutes of the plasticine tv show host dynamic from before.

And let’s take a moment to address the hypocrisy. I’m writing this on Friday morning and just caught the end of an act that got a standing ovation. I think back to all the multiple card productions and stolen balls that get applause and awes from the days before. .

For a group that seems so fixated on technique, almost to the exclusion it seems of everything else, how can you not be over the top in one’s praise for Jarod’s performance?

I know why

Because he has mastered his technique to the point it has been rendered invisible - and most magicians it appear would rather see technique on display than hidden. This is what we see so little magic in the contests - it’s all (for the most part) technique openly on display for its own sake. (Was ir Meir Yedid who said to win FISM one needed to do very difficult sleight of hand but only so well that the judges could still know everything you were doing?)

And while there were no fancy crash links or clever new moves, have you ever seen the switch performed in a manner truly invisible as we did that night. Or the link and unlinks occur without a single bump of hesitation?

No, you likely haven’t.

And to that he both addresses what all of you say and think when you talk and think about the rings, and yet managed to create a context that was both beautiful and important.

But by doing the rings he committed the greatest magic convention sin of all, he didn’t give us a new toy to look at and fantasize about buying someday in the dealer’s room.

Few Magicians ever master anything. They play with their toys for a while and then move on when they get bored.

They can’t related to what it takes to take a difficult trick like the rings and make it flawless.

And best they settle for what they think ‘get’s by’.

Jarod’s mentor had higher standards and Jared has higher standards. It was a revelation to see Bob White perform the rings - in his hands they were indeed solid unbroken bands of steel - as it should have been for the audience seeing Jared.

The goddess magic is a beautifully cruel mistress. I love how she blinds us, misdirects us, so often from the real magic right before us.

I’ve never been happier and sadder to see her work her spells.

Now Jarod is a friend and I assure you I’m not defending him because he’s my friend. I’m defending him because he’s a great magician and great magicians deserve to be defended. Most of you wouldn’t know real magic if it now came up and bit you on your asses.

And with our fixation on technique - the doing of things no one else can imagine being able to do while knowing exactly what’s being done - how can you diss the adagio/ballet act like so many have?

There are scores of performers in the hall and in final gala shows from years past who can produce countless balls, cards, and coins to the point we can’t recognize one from another - how many of us could imagine even possibly with an entire lifetime of practice doing anything we saw that couple do?

Was it magic?

No

But it was a hell of a lot more magical than 90 percent of want I’ve seen on the contest stages.

And let’s talk about the floating chair. Craig suggests we need to be proven there are no threads.

She did that.

How

Because you couldn’t see any threads and, unlike every thread act staged in the contests, she did it in incredibly bright white light. Nothing was hidden. No blues, no reds. And by using multiple methods/hook ups the chair did things that those who know threads can be hidden in lights can’t explain with just thread.

Again, we are trying to see this act through a contest lens which is based entirely on knowledge of methods and being fooled by things that only those who know the methods would even be able to appreciate.

There is less incestuous thinking in my home state of Kentucky then there are among the world of magicians.

My only comment on the act would be I think the beginning and ending should be switched. She should start by sitting on the chair and end with the lean. That’s an escalation - the power of the chair now being transferred to her being. And it gets the ‘proving’ of the sitting action up front to establish the alleged solitude of the chair.

Was it a great show?

By what standard?

By most magic conventions, yes.

By fism? I’m still new here. But So far I haven’t been blown away - though I still appreciate the opening gala and an sad we haven’t seen more like that.

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby CraigMitchell » July 29th, 2022, 10:45 am

Thanks for the incredible insights Brad … Truly appreciate you taking the time to share them

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby Brad Henderson » July 29th, 2022, 10:47 am

And you too Craig. My intent isn’t to disagree for its own sake but to offer a different perspective. (And typos, apparently. Sorry JarED).

We should meet. I met a protege/friend of yours this summer.

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby Tom Moore » July 29th, 2022, 11:04 am

Tom Frame wrote:
CraigMitchell wrote:FISM 2022 Day Four
Why is America not developing the shining stars it used to in the world of competition acts?


Perhaps America's shining stars aren't interested in competitions.


The problem is the structure of FISM - it has finally created a proper league and tournament that is designed to find the best from all over the world and filter them into the world championships; but it has done so using the global network of magic clubs & institutions just as they are all crumbling and turning to dust. Magic club membership is at an all time low & the barriers to entry are prohibitive - unless you are an active, paid up, known member of one of the feeder societies then getting to FISM WCM is almost impossible. Thinking through my active client base I would struggle to name more than a dozen who are members of a magic club yet i could name dozens who are doing interesting, exciting magic, earning a good living from it and who could more than hold their own amongst FISM contenders.

If FISM WCM is to survive beyond the next decade (which is at its best the longest the old magic club network could possibly struggle on) it needs to fundamentally change the sponsorship and admissions policy. For example the Magic Cafe is far from the most discerning group but they alone have more members and an (average) higher skill level than 90% of the FISM member societies do so why is it that it cannot sponsor competitors into the competitions whilst a dozen pensioners running a club/society which itself will probably have only a few dozen working members be able to drop their choices into continental championships without question? Likewise for GENII or any of the other major forums and magicians groups, why is there not an "open" entry slot where completely unsponsored, non member acts be submitted and whittled down through a few virtual rounds to produce some entrants for the in-person competitions that would literally be coming out of nowhere?
"Ingenious" - Ben Brantley: New York Times

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby Brad Henderson » July 29th, 2022, 11:13 am

Lots of money to be made from contest entry fees and hotel room sales and registrations paid to see shows comprised of free labor.

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby TheChrisRandall » July 29th, 2022, 12:40 pm

I agree fism should have an entryway that doesn't involve competing at ibm or Sam for many reason. 1 ibm and Sam have become clicks and if your not in the in crowd then your screwed. So a path way to fism can be difficult with out some booty kissing. The same goes for fism. Fism has had the same judges( many highly unqualified) for over 10 years. So why are you shocked if the standard doesn't change. Hell one famous female judge not only has her student an act she also manages in the contest but she also makes business deals with competetors for shows. The idea that fism isn't a fixed contest is crazy. I have been in the room when fism made deals with performers for fism prizes. Come perform your act in the contest and you will win. A limo driver accidentally tipped this at the last fism. He was there to pick up paid performers of fism. I said I'm one of the competetors he said I had to get a taxi to the hotel he was there picking the VIP guests of FISM. The name on his sign was one of the top prize Winners in Busan in 2018. I watched this person get VIP treatment from fism including a very big prize. If you want to evolve FISM you must start with the organization and judges. Sure the magicians and countries change but the judges and people running the convention rarely does. The ethics of judges having students in the contest is baffling and it happens everytime and it's a known secret everyone just goes along with it. FISM can reverse all this by new judges that don't have a vested interest in who wins and losses. FISM be transparent show the score sheet ... They won't because they don't exist. I know a judge and he was telling me that an act will get announced and before they step on stage word would get passed down the line of judges on what score to give before the act ever started. So in the words of the Great Eugene Burger who is judging the judge's ? Also the judge's don't follow the rules in Korea one act went way over time and won a prize and another act did 4 mins a min undertime required time and he won first place so why would an American go into a fixed contest unless he or she has some connections.Higher standard of judges higher standard of competition. I think fism should have a non grand prix year that might shake things up and raise the bar if grand prix is so special and unique why is it given out everytime. It should be treated like ibm gold medal. Also rarely are Americans judges so Americans don't feel represented at FISM. In Busan not one judge from the united states I'm sure we can find someone......why would America's compete hell fism doesn't even tell you what you win if you do win. Does Grand Prix have a cash prize or do any of the awards? No one knows FISM surely doesn't tell the people competing. I have been in 13 major magic contests and FISM was by far the most unorganized I have ever seen. No communication with fism thru the whole process other than paying your contest fees those emails are on time the rest is just silence. Imagine you paid lots of money to be in a gala show where u put your heart and soul out there to have fixed judges and deals and arm chair magicians ripping you on the internet after the contest is over. Please someone sell the good parts of this contest to me. No money major disappointment, no chance of winning, get ripped apart on the internet by people who have no idea what goes into competing and it's really really expensive,you waste 3 years or more and you care about this thing called FISM and sadly fism doesn't care about you your just free labor and your treated like it. Proof the magic and magic contests are in trouble is the our current world champion is a juggler who produces his juggling props... That's like me juggling 3 lemons before bill in lemon and being crowned world champion of juggling.

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby Edward Pungot » July 29th, 2022, 1:20 pm

Knopf (USA) - Grand Prix (for originality in the classics)

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby TheChrisRandall » July 29th, 2022, 1:29 pm

Edward Pungot wrote:Knopf (USA) - Grand Prix (for originality in the classics)



Did he use to tons of smoke confetti and flash alot ? If not fism isn't interested unless he juggles the rings.

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby TheChrisRandall » July 29th, 2022, 1:34 pm

Brad Henderson wrote:Lots of money to be made from contest entry fees and hotel room sales and registrations paid to see shows comprised of free labor.



One of the most truthful statements about what it's really all about. 6 days and 150 acts that will work for free. Shouldn't the competetors get free registration and even get paid. World Magic Seminar was a paid contest. If you compete at fism Fism charges you more more than a normal attendee yet the competetors are the "stars" yet are treated the worst.

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby CraigMitchell » July 29th, 2022, 5:48 pm

“The idea that fism isn't a fixed contest is crazy.”

Chris Randall’s comment is completely and utterly baseless.

He previously performed at FISM and the scoring accurately reflected the quality of the performance.

His alcohol fueled actions following the results were utterly reprehensible and nearly resulted in the local police being called and charges filed.

His attempt to now discredit the contest in which he faired badly should be treated with the contempt it deserves.

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby Brad Henderson » July 29th, 2022, 6:06 pm

Do judges who have sponsored contestants recuse themselves? What’s the policy on that?

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby CraigMitchell » July 29th, 2022, 6:46 pm

An individual does not independently sponsor an act - a contestant is representing the organization having (under the more recent system) qualified under their regional continental event.

The president / Fism rep of that club is whose name appears as their ‘sponsor’

The judging rules are continually being refined - highest and lowest scores are often discarded to avoid situations such as this. I don’t have sight of the current regulations - but the process is certainly rigorous.

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby TheChrisRandall » July 29th, 2022, 8:11 pm

I am ok with the score I received at FISM and did relapse after you are correct. I repeatedly apologized for my actions and even seeked help that was 4 years ago and also doesn't negate all the facts I did lay out in my post yes the judge's do make deals with contestants and yes they have students and acts they manage in the contest. I guess your the only one who is allowed to have a voice about fism. Just because I got drunk 4 years ago doesn't mean I'm not allowed to voice my feelings and my experience at FISM. I thought the point of a forum board.

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby TheChrisRandall » July 29th, 2022, 8:22 pm

And Craig I love FISM I still follow and love it. I more than anyone want it to be the standard it claims to be. Hell no I shouldn't have won in Korea that's not what this is about let's make that clear. I want fism to be better like you and Brad and everyone. All I'm offering is the competetors point of view and things fism could change to be better.

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby CraigMitchell » July 29th, 2022, 8:35 pm

You stated that FISM is a fixed contest. It is categorically not.

Respectfully, in light of the substance / alcohol issues identified - and resulting damage that such actions can bring to one’s cognitive functioning during and after such episodes - ( and later recall and justifications ) it is best not to engage in such baseless claims.

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby TheChrisRandall » July 29th, 2022, 8:42 pm

No baseless claims. Do judges currently in this contest now have students they are judging ?

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby TheChrisRandall » July 29th, 2022, 8:47 pm

The reason I don't give more specific examples or names is I don't want to out some of the fism winners and judges I toured with who sat me down and told me the hard truth. I wish it wasn't true my life was about fism and I still want to believe but I have seen with my own 2 eye to much. Remember I was a magic assistant for the biggest magic acts in the world for 20 years so fism presidents didn't notice me when they would come back stage and make deals with some of my employers. Just because you weren't there to witness it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby Tim Ellis » July 29th, 2022, 8:58 pm

Chris Randall - having been a Judge at three FISMS and three Asia FISMS, I am incredibly insulted at your accusations and you are putting yourself in line for a lawsuit.

"The idea that fism isn't a fixed contest is crazy. I have been in the room when fism made deals with performers for fism prizes. Come perform your act in the contest and you will win."

If you have evidence for this - you'd better present it FAST! I have NEVER been told how to vote and neither has ANY Jury I have ever been on.


"Sure the magicians and countries change but the judges and people running the convention rarely does."

This shows your lack of knowledge - it changes EVERY FISM. The Board of Directors and the FISM Executive Board have nothing to do with the running of the WCM. (They should, but that is for a different discussion)


"The ethics of judges having students in the contest is baffling and it happens everytime and it's a known secret everyone just goes along with it."

Really? I have never had a student in the competition, but I have had friends/colleagues. It is inevitable in this small magic world. Did I give THEMN the best score? No. Because as a judge I have to be unbiased. The way the system is designed is to PREVENT this happening by tossing the highest and lowest scores out.

"FISM can reverse all this by new judges that don't have a vested interest in who wins and losses. FISM be transparent show the score sheet ... They won't because they don't exist."

FISM has new judges all the time. And the scores ARE released each year. (Not the individual score sheets of each judge.) Some people, not mentioning any names, have PHYSICALLY ATTACKED REVIEWERS who gave negative comments. No judge wants to be put in that situation, nor should they be.


"I know a judge and he was telling me that an act will get announced and before they step on stage word would get passed down the line of judges on what score to give before the act ever started."

Really? Then present your evidence because that HAS NEVER HAPPENED!

"So in the words of the Great Eugene Burger who is judging the judge's ?"

The head of the Jury.

"Higher standard of judges higher standard of competition."

I sat on Juries with Boris Wild, Ali Bongo, Tommy Wonder... what standard would you like?

"Also rarely are Americans judges so Americans don't feel represented at FISM."

Once again, John Carney, Joshua Jay, Obie Obrien, Joan Caesar....


"why would America's compete hell fism doesn't even tell you what you win if you do win."

Seriously... you entered a competition without reading what you were competing for?


Chris, I would strongly recommend your remove your post full of false accusations. I am ANGRY and INSULTED. Other FISM Judges may feel litigious.

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby TheChrisRandall » July 29th, 2022, 9:05 pm

I saw what i saw. You can threaten a law suit all you want but it doesn't make my truth not true. Little bullying going on here I notice. Ok I will ask again fo judges have currently student in the contest ?

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby TheChrisRandall » July 29th, 2022, 9:11 pm

I am not trying to offend anyone but I saw certain thing maybe this wasn't your experience Tim and that's great but I saw other things. Not saying it's always fixed but I have seen deals made. I'm not outing some of my fism award winning friends and judges and have fism take away their award. Why would I do that. I'm saying moving forward fresh judges everytime and if you have a student in the contest then your not a judge that year no big deal. it sad you can't have a voice without being bullied or threatened. Stay silent or I will sue.

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby PressureFan » July 29th, 2022, 9:12 pm

Take your screenshots now, folks.

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby Tarotist » July 29th, 2022, 9:14 pm

There really should be a sociology study on why magicians are such unpleasant people.

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby TheChrisRandall » July 29th, 2022, 9:26 pm

I apologize if anyone was offended not my intention just giving my experience that's it. I wish all a happy fism. And if you were offended then I deeply apologize.

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby Joe Lyons » July 29th, 2022, 9:58 pm

PressureFan wrote:Take your screenshots now, folks.


:D

Good advice.

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby Tarotist » July 29th, 2022, 10:21 pm

TheChrisRandall wrote:I apologize if anyone was offended not my intention just giving my experience that's it. I wish all a happy fism. And if you were offended then I deeply apologize.


I am not offended and in fact I believe you.

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby Hanno » July 30th, 2022, 3:50 am

Thank you Tim Ellis for clarifying this. As I just have gone through a long process of a FISM judge, I have been to many conventions and know the process of the judging system very well. Even if you don't agree with everything FISM does, they have made huge efforts to train jurors and introduce standards over the last years. Jurors are also constantly evaluated after competitions. You can question everything, but accusing corruption is completely unjustified.
Chris Randall doesn't know this but accused fellow magicians who were in a FISM jury to be not serious and corruptible in public. This is complete nonsense and disrespectful to his colleagues who are doing their best. Then to say that he does not want to harm them and give no concrete examples causes a lingering suspicion of the successful FISM participants.

But he is obviously angry about FISM, so everything is bad. Even the current stage FISM Champion with his most magical performance he call: ".....Proof the magic and magic contests are in trouble is the our current world champion is a juggler who produces his juggling props... That's like me juggling 3 lemons before bill in lemon and being crowned world champion of juggling."
If you reduce a magic performance to props and traditional thinking, you missed the development in magic. ....
That shows the narrow thinking of some traditional magicians.

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby Q. Kumber » July 30th, 2022, 5:40 am

Having watched many magic competitions over the years, it will usually be obvious who the winners are likely to be and, at the very least, that they should be placed. The heated discussions amongst the audience and presumably the judges, is as to what place and what award will be given.

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby Tim Ellis » July 30th, 2022, 8:05 am

The thing Chris Randall doesn't understand is that he THINKS he is accusing an organisation of being corrupt.

He is accusing people.

Very specific people.

"I know a judge and he was telling me that an act will get announced and before they step on stage word would get passed down the line of judges on what score to give before the act ever started."

So, if he is alleging this happened at Blackpool FISM, Rimini FISM, or Busan FISM, then he is alleging the head of the Jury was telling the Jurors how they should vote. Mr Domenico Dante, President of FISM, was the head of the Jury, as new President Andrea Baioni is head of the Jury at the current FISM in Quebec.

Even if he is afraid to "name names", Mr Randall is making a specific allegation of corruption that leads to one person.

If he wants to dance around facts and say "It wasn't the Head of the Jury who was telling people how to vote" (I'm not sure who else would be in the position to advise them) then he is accusing the Jury members themselves of being corrupt anyway... and these are REAL PEOPLE. People who are easily identifiable as it was no secret that they sat on the Jury.

By being vague in his allegations, Mr Randall is casting a very dark shadow over a large group of people.

Either make a SPECIFIC allegation and stand by your words, or plead your case the the new President Andrea Baioni and let FISM look into it, but do NOT throw mud randomly by claiming "FISM is corrupt."

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby TheChrisRandall » July 30th, 2022, 9:41 am

Ok since I'm such a liar and so crooked. I will ask again a question do the judges have students or acts they manage in the contest and is that ethical or curupt? Let's start there fyi this is a loaded question with dozen of specific examples. I notice all are dancing around this question

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby Tarotist » July 31st, 2022, 8:03 am

This reminds me of a magic competition I organised many years ago in Blackpool. A local character who has now passed into the spirit world asked me to fix the competition so that he would win and we would split the prize money which was donated by Ripleys Odditorium in Blackpool. I asked him how on earth I was supposed to get the judges to join in this scheme whereupon he said old Murray would be sure to join in the conspiracy since he was one of the judges and would probably be amenable to it since he was an old rogue of the old school. I declined the offer because of my well known honesty and integrity. Besides I couldn't see how it would work. A footnote to the event was that Murray was asleep throughout the entire event and I asked him afterwards how he could judge the acts if he was asleep. He responded with unassailable logic, "Oh, I have seen them all before!"

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby Tim Ellis » July 31st, 2022, 8:29 pm

TheChrisRandall wrote:Ok since I'm such a liar and so crooked. I will ask again a question do the judges have students or acts they manage in the contest and is that ethical or curupt? Let's start there fyi this is a loaded question with dozen of specific examples. I notice all are dancing around this question


Here is the Jury.

Close up Jury: Peter Din, Henry Evans, Joshua Jay, Shimpei Katsuraguwa, Christina Nyman, Douwe Sweierstra, Horret Wu

Stage Jury: Juliana Chen, May Closa, Norbert Ferre, Eberhart Reise, Slyvia Schuyer, Adrian Soler, Soma, Priska Walther, Saturo Yamamoto

Jury Officers: Christina Angeloni, Joan Carles Gil, Nolwenn Play.

Jury President: Andrea Baioni


Here are the winners

Laurent Piron, Anca & Lucca, Mortenn Christiansen, Junwoo Park, Artem Shchukin, Yunke, Markobi, Shoot Ogawa, Luis Olmedo, Simon Coronel

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Re: FISM 2022 Day 4

Postby Syd » July 31st, 2022, 10:42 pm

Are the scores posted for the individual contestants?
Syd



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