Your Suggestions for the New Edition of Greater Magic

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Your Suggestions for the New Edition of Greater Magic

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 2nd, 2021, 11:15 am

I don't believe Armando likes to publish his material.
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Herb
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Re: Your Suggestions for the New Edition of Greater Magic

Postby Herb » May 3rd, 2021, 10:17 am

I'm sure there would be varying points of view about this, but a book looking at the contemporary state of magic should probably at least acknowledge if not delve into virtual magic, which it seems this year has developed into an established sub-field. I'm sure we are at the early stages of this, but I don't think it's going to go away. That goes for app magic and also mentalism using electronic devices. (Some of this was suggested as well in Jonathan Townsend's earlier post.)

Rubik's cube magic has also blossomed into its own sub-field which probably should be documented.

Also, memorized deck work really has expanded since the publication of the original Greater Magic. Something on the work of Tamariz et al in this respect would be important.

Coin technique has exploded, with the advent of Roth and his descendants, plus the development of new gimmicks like the flipper. I know you've documented Roth extensively in previous books...Are you planning on including the work of influential magicians that has previously been documented elsewhere?

The biggest challenge seems to me to be how to narrow this all down into something manageable to write...and to read.

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Re: Your Suggestions for the New Edition of Greater Magic

Postby Mark Collier » May 5th, 2021, 1:13 pm

Will Max be including applications for the Gilbreath Principle?

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Re: Your Suggestions for the New Edition of Greater Magic

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 5th, 2021, 1:14 pm

Not certain.
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Re: Your Suggestions for the New Edition of Greater Magic

Postby Brad Henderson » May 5th, 2021, 3:25 pm

Virtual, Rubik’s cube, and other modern niche genres of magic might not be worth entire sections but could be represented in a modern ‘old wine in new bottles’ chapter.

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Re: Your Suggestions for the New Edition of Greater Magic

Postby Jonathan Townsend » May 5th, 2021, 4:08 pm

Was the palm to palm switch for dice in GM?

I'd like to see some mention of the chop cup. Also some mention if not discussion of the vanish of a (blue) ball from the table in Kent Gunn's routine. This might also be an occasion to honor the folks who worked on the three ball routine including that double roll-up sleight.
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Re: Your Suggestions for the New Edition of Greater Magic

Postby Dr. Solka » May 5th, 2021, 4:31 pm

The chapter about magic squares is outdated. Meaningfully it deals with a satellite launch; clever people can fly even to the moon. The knowledge for Mars landings is out there but is kept secret.
I love rocket science.

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Re: Your Suggestions for the New Edition of Greater Magic

Postby Tom Gilbert » May 6th, 2021, 7:27 am

So this new edition will be 7,000 pages?

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Re: Your Suggestions for the New Edition of Greater Magic

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 6th, 2021, 11:10 am

2,000.
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Re: Your Suggestions for the New Edition of Greater Magic

Postby erdnasephile » May 6th, 2021, 4:22 pm

Selfishly, I would love to see at least one good color changing knives routine, maybe as part of a small section on tricks using the paddle principle? (the original text doesn't have any CCK or Paddle tricks that I can find).

John Carney has a really great paddle routine (as did Pete Biro). There was also a very good routine with a cake spreader published in a magazine in the 90's, but the reference escapes me. Sheets has a great version of the Sack's routine, and York, Tamariz, and Ascanio have written some seminal works on the CCK. There was also a nice routine in Genii with knives and silks a few years ago.

I would also enjoy a section on great tricks with fekes that hide in plain sight on your hands: thumb tips, false fingertips, Sanada gimmick, Mike Bent's modern version of the Deland feke (which became even more accessible due to the advent of modern color printers/paper), etc. Alexander deCova has some great work on unconventional uses of the thumb tip.

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Re: Your Suggestions for the New Edition of Greater Magic

Postby erdnasephile » May 6th, 2021, 4:24 pm

If I may: I would like to respectfully second my earlier suggestion for a section on invisible thread work with the new, modern materials.

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Re: Your Suggestions for the New Edition of Greater Magic

Postby AJM » May 6th, 2021, 5:02 pm

Its probably just me however I've never quite understood the colour (color) changing knives thing, or paddle tricks for that matter.

I understand that playing cards are not as popular as they used to be (every home had 'em) - however who has ever carried 4 pen-knives about their person?

Where did this trick originate from and why is it so popular?

Andrew

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Re: Your Suggestions for the New Edition of Greater Magic

Postby Brad Jeffers » May 6th, 2021, 9:16 pm

AJM wrote:Where did this trick originate from and why is it so popular?

Kanter's Magic Shop of Philadelphia may have produced and sold the first set of color changing knives.

In the 1939 Kanter's catalog they are listed as "Kanter's Chameleon Knife - The Original".

"This is the pocket trick which we brought out recently using a high-grade pocketknife which changes colors right before the spectator's eyes. It must be a good trick as we have sold several thousand of the original Kanter knives and, in addition, it is probably the most IMITATED trick on the market. Please note, we said IMITATED - we don't mean DUPLICATED ... for nobody has ever duplicated the Kanter knife".

They had both a regular set and a "Deluxe Model" (pearl & stag).

Several years ago I acquired a set of these knives from an Ebay sale. They were listed by a knife dealer, not a magic dealer. I have never before or since seen a set of Kanter's Chameleon Knives for sale. Also, I have never heard anyone mention them when discussing color changing knives.

You would think there would be many surviving sets of the "several thousand" sold by Kanter's, but apparently that is not the case.

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Re: Your Suggestions for the New Edition of Greater Magic

Postby Joe Lyons » May 6th, 2021, 10:09 pm

erdnasephile wrote: There was also a very good routine with a cake spreader published in a magazine in the 90's, but the reference escapes me.

You may be referring to Genii's 2006 July edition.

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paddling along

Postby Jonathan Townsend » May 6th, 2021, 11:01 pm

The pen knife routine makes lots of sense for the magician. Fun to practice and sensible to perform. You get some magical looking changes for the effort. Spellbound with much less worry about flashing or dropping the props. That's using two, or if you carry the extra for that cardwarp visible change, three. Then folks went for the climax with several mini knives. Much lower barrier to entry than a Spellbound / copper+silver / Jumbo coin routine.

The paddle with thee holes and a toothpick that seems to jump from hole to hole has been published in Scot's Discoverie (okay he chickened out with the sleight but the trick is there) been in our literature evolving ever since. It moved on to the little set of rods with spots, to Sawa's Ladybug trick using a branch with leaves, Steve Dusheck's coin paddle, the eyedropper in the Clone sponge ball trick, and even a USB thumb drive routine.

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Re: Your Suggestions for the New Edition of Greater Magic

Postby Jonathan Townsend » May 6th, 2021, 11:34 pm

Joe Lyons wrote:
erdnasephile wrote: There was also a very good routine with a cake spreader published in a magazine in the 90's, but the reference escapes me.

You may be referring to Genii's 2006 July edition.

Thanks! I saw someone doing that basic handling using a plastic prop at Tannen's long ago. It's a fine use of the paddle move.

Nod to the painters and machinists for making clever wooden, plastic, and metal paddles for tricks. The version of "hot rod" with a black square rod and all four sides have spots --- is a fun prop.
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Re: Your Suggestions for the New Edition of Greater Magic

Postby Ted M » May 7th, 2021, 2:33 pm

What are the demographics among performers of the color-changing knives?

How many people under 60 do the trick? Under 50? Under 40?

I'm pretty sure there's a steep drop-off; just uncertain where the line is...

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Re: Your Suggestions for the New Edition of Greater Magic

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 7th, 2021, 3:10 pm

Color-Changing Knives became problematic when carrying them through airport security disallowed them.
Even though you are allowed to carry through a blade four inches or less, TSA agents frequently ignore that rule and just confiscate stuff anyway. No one wants an expensive set of Color-Changing Knives confiscated.
That's my guess.
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Re: Your Suggestions for the New Edition of Greater Magic

Postby Edward Pungot » May 7th, 2021, 3:37 pm

The Chameleon Wallet by Steinmeyer solves many of these prop management and presentational issues. I like the "imitation leather" tongue-in-cheek approach. If you have the original writeup from the final issue of Magic Magazine, you'll be pleased to know that these wallets have recently been made available to the Magic community.

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Re: Your Suggestions for the New Edition of Greater Magic

Postby Jonathan Townsend » May 7th, 2021, 3:48 pm

The color changing wallet solves the knife problem... and could be mentioned in context. :)

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Re: Your Suggestions for the New Edition of Greater Magic

Postby Brad Henderson » May 7th, 2021, 5:26 pm

I think carrying pocket knives is less a function of age and more a function of lifestyle. There are young(ish) people who carry knives because they work in jobs or have hobbies that require their use. Having said that, even with them being less ubiquitous they are still easily recognizable. It’s not like doing a trick with a record or rotary phone dial.

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Re: Your Suggestions for the New Edition of Greater Magic

Postby Ted M » May 7th, 2021, 5:27 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:Color-Changing Knives became problematic when carrying them through airport security disallowed them.
Even though you are allowed to carry through a blade four inches or less, TSA agents frequently ignore that rule and just confiscate stuff anyway. No one wants an expensive set of Color-Changing Knives confiscated.
That's my guess.

Response to the Columbine school massacre in 1999 resulted in knives of any sort falling into the category of weapons that would result in expulsion from school. Consequently, far fewer youths have grown up habitually carrying a handy pocketknife.

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Re: Your Suggestions for the New Edition of Greater Magic

Postby AJM » May 7th, 2021, 5:43 pm

“Consequently, far fewer youths have grown up habitually carrying a handy pocketknife.”

Not unless those youths live in certain areas of London. Then again, what they carry wouldn’t be described as pocketknives.

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Re: Your Suggestions for the New Edition of Greater Magic

Postby erdnasephile » May 7th, 2021, 6:40 pm

Brad Henderson wrote:I think carrying pocket knives is less a function of age and more a function of lifestyle. There are young(ish) people who carry knives because they work in jobs or have hobbies that require their use. Having said that, even with them being less ubiquitous they are still easily recognizable. It’s not like doing a trick with a record or rotary phone dial.


I concur. Folks of all ages around here carry knives all the time. They are used as tools for the most part. I'm sure it's different for many states, given the variances in knife laws.

Regardless, CCK routines can be very fooling and entertaining if done well and briefly (and they aren't cards or coins ;) )

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Re: Your Suggestions for the New Edition of Greater Magic

Postby Bill Mullins » May 7th, 2021, 9:34 pm

Except for days that I knew I'd be travelling by air, and for much of the past year where I haven't needed pants, I've had a knife in my pocket pretty much every day since I was ten years old. I'm 58 now.

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Re: Your Suggestions for the New Edition of Greater Magic

Postby Joe Lyons » May 7th, 2021, 10:27 pm

Bill Mullins wrote: I've had a knife in my pocket pretty much every day since I was ten years old. I'm 58 now.
You're from Alabama by way of Tennessee and Kentucky. I'm from Texas and I understand because I can't remember ever leaving the house without a knife in my pocket.(Although I usually remember to leave it in the truck when I approach an airport.) Probably a southern state thing.
Bill Mullins wrote: and for much of the past year where I haven't needed pants
TMI Bill... ;)

I've used Merrill and Mogar knives with success, though surely this Texas crowd didn't believe they were my normal 'carrying' knives.


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