Article in LA Times about Magic Castle

[Robert77]

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2020-12-04/magic-castle-los-angeles-allegations-sexual-misconduct-racism

[Liderc]

I can't read it because of the paywall, but I can confirm on my self that I have experienced racist remarks and racism from Staff and other members and performers there, and when you bring it up to the management/president I have been ignored or brushed off as a "one-time incident"

[AJM]

Absolutely shocking.

[Chris Aguilar]

Disgusting, but absolutely not surprising.

[Robert77]

If the paywall stops you, you can go in to your browser cookies and delete any cookie related to the latimes and that should get you past the paywall one time until the cookies reset.

[erdnasephile]

The BOD sent a statement to members today saying (in part) that they "did respond to queries but were not fully represented...[in the article]" They also stated that they are "working with a management consulting firm to assist us in implementing the resulting recommendations...[from the investigation mentioned in the article]. I am glad the BOD is taking things seriously.

That said, the allegations in the article sicken and disgust me. As an American of Asian descent, I can painfully relate to Ed Kwon's account from the article. On my very first visit as a member years ago, I was treated in a ridiculous fashion by the front desk person, who acted as if a guy like me didn't belong there. As a human being, it was maddening. As a minority, it was humiliating.

When I spoke up later, I was accused of making up the entire incident. I think that for some folks, their love of an institution causes them to view any kind of constructive negative report as a lie, a sign of disloyalty, or some sort of conspiracy, which results in ad hominin attacks on anyone who has the temerity to speak the truth.

In that vein, big shout out to Hannibal and Kayla Drescher for having the courage to confront witnessed wrongs personally and for going on record.

I am hoping that the Times article, however unpleasant, helps spur the leaders and members of the AMA to seek not only improvement, but also justice going forward. I also urge the BOD to be ready to show clear, rapid, and tangible progress to the membership on a regular basis.

As for me, although I have contributed thousands of dollars to the AMA over the last couple of decades, if I don't see meaningful changes, I will regrettably walk away until what needs to be done--what magic deserves--actually happens.

[AJM]

Seems endemic and the BOD has been complicit.

I would close the place.

[Chris Aguilar]

...
When I spoke up later, I was accused of making up the entire incident. I think that for some folks, their love of an institution causes them to view any kind of constructive negative report as a lie, a sign of disloyalty, or some sort of conspiracy, which results in ad hominin attacks on anyone who has the temerity to speak the truth.

I'm guessing (in terms of magicians associated with the Castle who might fear retaliation) that we might end up with more stony silence than outrage, in hopes that the problem will blow over somehow and the status quo won't be hurt *too much*. Kudos to those brave enough to speak up, on the record.

[Krenz]

When you keep tripping over bumps in the carpet, one has to wonder exactly how much dirt has been swept underneath…

[Chris Randal2]

This is not a shock I brought up this issue many years ago and even at the SAM convention in Las Vegas. I brought up my claim of being sexually harassed and assaulted by a fism winning woman from China and a fism judge from China. I was laughter and ridiculed by a fism winning Grand Prix card magician. Over the 52 weeks I worked at the Magic Castle on the palace of mystery stage I was approached by one man in general from the Magic Castle to advance my career this man still does this to this day.
I was told I was crazy and I was outed as being someone who couldn’t be trusted because I spoke my truth of my sexual harassment. The magic castle has a long history of sexual harassment and when it is brought to light the board of directors and trustees sweep it under the table as fast as they can to keep their power. #metoo I have been sexually assaulted by members of the magic castle.
Yes when I was young I was sexually assaulted by a few famous Magicians. And I was silenced by many out of fear and embarrassment. Sexual-harassment and the assault is very real and the magic world as not to be taken as a joke.

[Liderc]

As I said above, This has happened to me, not only by staff, performers, and other Members, but other people (staff, performers, and other Members) heard and either laughed or ignored it... and even outside of the Magic Castle, this has happened to me by other Magicians.

As it is now the Magic Castle is trying to discredit it and say they got outside advice on how to implement new 'procedures' so it won't happen again.

the thing is, these are not isolated incidents, Racism, Sexism, Assult/Harassment, Classism, etc this is not only a "Magic Castle" issue, but also an Individual people issue, you can change as many procedures as you want, Individuals will remain, and it is how we deal with it not looking elsewhere because elsewhere will always fail us because they all have their own agendas

[Sean Piper]

This is not a shock I brought up this issue many years ago and even at the SAM convention in Las Vegas. I brought up my claim of being sexually harassed and assaulted by a fism winning woman from China and a fism judge from China. I was laughter and ridiculed by a fism winning Grand Prix card magician. Over the 52 weeks I worked at the Magic Castle on the palace of mystery stage I was approached by one man in general from the Magic Castle to advance my career this man still does this to this day.
I was told I was crazy and I was outed as being someone who couldn’t be trusted because I spoke my truth of my sexual harassment. The magic castle has a long history of sexual harassment and when it is brought to light the board of directors and trustees sweep it under the table as fast as they can to keep their power. #metoo I have been sexually assaulted by members of the magic castle.
Yes when I was young I was sexually assaulted by a few famous Magicians. And I was silenced by many out of fear and embarrassment. Sexual-harassment and the assault is very real and the magic world as not to be taken as a joke.

I'm so sorry this happened to you Chris. Thank you for sharing your experience.

[Zig Zagger]

Whew, what a sad and disturbing read!

This article comes down on the management like an ungaffed head chopper. And all they can conjure up is some blurb from The Hogwash Castle's Corporate Handbook of Hollow PR Patter?

Obviously, it's impossible to judge the facts from the distance, but if only half the allegations were true, the Castle and AMA should probably consider rebranding as Home of Magic's Molestors...

Kudos to Hannibal for speaking up and calling out on the harassers!

[Bob Farmer]

Who are these predators/racists/nutjobs? Were they raised stupid or did they have to take a course? They seem to me to be losers who know they are losers, they cannot accept the fact and so they decide someone else made them that way.

In the 1920s, my grandmother, a widow with four small children, had a farm in southern Ontario. One night, the Klu Klux Klan (Ontario chapter), burned a cross in front of her farmhouse because she was the only Catholic in the area.

When I was twelve, I did a Christmas magic show at the local Orange Lodge. Orangeman also hate Catholics (they are like the Klu Klux Klan and love parading around in white sheets but no hoods). Before my show this guy asks me what school I attended. I tell him, St. Francis Xavier. He freaks out and tells me I have to leave right after the show--no ice cream for me. Later my father told me these people were prejudiced. When I asked him what that meant, he said it meant that you dislike people you don't know. I told him that was stupid. Yep, he agreed, stupid.

[Chris Aguilar]

Since I saw no mention of it there, I posted a topic with the links to the LA Times at the Magic Cafe.

Within a few hours, that post (and any other post referencing this scandal) has been scrubbed from the cafe.

They'll host topics with pages of magicians arguing over minor crediting issues, but when real scandal hits the magic world... Bupkis.

I wonder what they're afraid of?

[GBean]

Richard is to be commended for hosting this thread. That article was extremely disturbing, as are the supporting testimonies here. The only way forward is by confronting these problems directly, both at the Castle and in the rest of the magic world.

[jason156]

The only way forward is by confronting these problems directly.

You would think, but apparently the board of directors at the Castle favored a different approach. They ignored it, downplayed it, swept it under the rug, and paid people off. The rot starts at the top, and if the Castle is to survive, there will have to be a shake up in the leadership.

[Leo Garet]

Who are these predators/racists/nutjobs? Were they raised stupid or did they have to take a course? They seem to me to be losers who know they are losers, they cannot accept the fact and so they decide someone else made them that way.

It's an innate "talent". Whoever they are they polish and "refine" this "talent". They do this because they can and they get away with year on year.

As for the Magic Cafe, well who knows? I'm not a member, but I do visit, and this vanishing post stuff seems to part the constitution.

[Richard Kaufman]

Gordon, no "testimony" has been given here. Testimony is given under oath.

[GBean]

Point taken, Richard. Still, hats off to those with the courage to tell their stories, and to you, for letting them do so.

[Bill Mullins]

The fact that the public response in the LA Times article is less than satisfying may be driven by the lawyers for the Castle. Often the best public relations strategy and the best legal strategy are completely different.

(And "testimony" has multiple meanings, one of which is completely consistent with GBean's usage. Testify, Gordon!)

[Max Maven]

The amount of venom in this thread is startling.

I am the Vice President of the Academy of Magical Arts (Magic Castle), albeit only since late March.

As I stated during a Town Hall Zoom meeting on Sunday, the most painful thing about the Los Angeles Times article is that some of it is true. There are problems at our club, and the current Board has been working to fix them.

Some of the claims in the article are simply false, and many things are distorted. But, on the advice of legal counsel, at this time I cannot discuss details.

If, from a distance, you feel the need to jump to the worst possible conclusions, I suppose that's your right. The person on this thread who lists performing at the Magic Castle as an apparently proud credit in his sig might want to consider removing it; you can't have it both ways. Meanwhile, those of use who can will continue to put in the work to improve a club we believe in.

[Steve Bryant]

Max, I was looking forward to "attending" the Sunday meeting, having apparently successfully registered on Thursday. Alas, I never received the authorization to sign in. Was that unique to me (and therefore somehow my fault, I assume), or were a sizable number of members excluded? I understood that over 500 had registered before i tried. There might have been a limit. Just curious.

Meanwhile thanks for the hard work. MMOMA is great.

[JimW]

If you log into the Members' section of the Magic Castle web page, there is a link a video of the meeting.

[pabloin us]

I have also posted the article at themagiccafe and was also deleted. I appreciate Mr Kaufman allowing that this painful subject can be debate in an open forum
I personally do not know more than what I read in the article and the comments from people that suffered these humiliations, I think that we should embrace people that come forward and tell their stories, this is the only way to grow as a society. My recommendation to the authorities of the Magic Castle is to reach out to these two members and get their information, most likely it will help the Magic Castle to correct the wrong behaviors

[Max Maven]

A few replies:

Steve, there was no cap on attendance at Sunday’s meeting. Almost 500 members did. I don’t know what caused the problem in your case, but as was mentioned above, the entire three-hour Town Hall is now available for viewing in the Members Only area of the magiccastle.com website.

To the person who posted last: I have heard that some posts about the article were deleted from the Magic Cafe. I can assure you that no one from the AMA Board of Directors or Magic Castle management asked for that to be done.

I don’t know why you would imagine that we haven’t reached out to members who have grievances. We have. We are trying to make our club better. If you read the article and then have only heard from the aggrieved, then you have not attempted to learn what is actually happening.

I’ll say it again: Some of what was in that newspaper story was true. The members of the Board (who, just for the record, are unpaid volunteers) are putting in major effort. Since late March, some weeks I have worked more than eighty hours on these concerns. I just got done with a Zoom meeting of the Board, that lasted four and a half hours, and was immediately followed by over an hour of writing to add to the couple of hours I spent answering e-mail in this regard.

But sure, thanks for your recommendation.

[pabloin us]

Thank you Mr Maven for your reply. I did not implied that you or anyone asked for the posts to be deleted, nor that you did not reach to members affected by these incidents. I just reacted to your comment about signing posts as a member of the Magic Castle. My apologies if I misunderstood it.
I am glad that you and your fellow directors are working hard to correct the situation, it is the right thing to do.
I am looking forward to read the Magic Castle reply to the allegations, if the chose to do it, so I can learn what actually happened. Until that time I will refrain for further comments.

Best Regards and I appreciate what you bring to magic.

[Chris Aguilar]

I have also posted the article at themagiccafe and was also deleted. I appreciate Mr Kaufman allowing that this painful subject can be debate in an open forum

You also (quite reasonably) asked (in their support area) "Why was my post deleted". I chimed in that I also had a post deleted.

Your issue post is now gone. And I get this bit of joy from cafe majordomo Scribner:

Chris Aguilar wrote: I too, posted a simple link (with no commentary) to the LA Times article and within an hour it was removed. What's up?

------

Dave Scribner wrote:

While the Café does not condone activities such as those alleged to have happened at the Magic Castle, we are very careful when it comes to posts concerning sexual or racist activity and discussing such actions. We cannot verify the accuracy of such posts regardless of where they may appear elsewhere. Such posts may or may not damage the reputation of an individual or individuals.

For those reasons, your topic was removed.

Hm...

https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/sea ... d=10833901
https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/sea ... d=10833898

[Jonathan Townsend]

Getting through #metoo and making the discussion something better than "ain't it awful" is difficult.

The legal/money aspect makes the LATimes article discussion more awkward, as that's about one or more pending legal matters.

Does your club have a harassment policy?

[Liderc]

If, from a distance, you feel the need to jump to the worst possible conclusions, I suppose that's your right. The person on this thread who lists performing at the Magic Castle as an apparently proud credit in his sig might want to consider removing it; you can't have it both ways. Meanwhile, those of use who can will continue to put in the work to improve a club we believe in.

So you are saying I shouldn't be proud of performing at the Magic Castle and list it as an accomplishment because I have shared experiences I have had at the Magic Castle with Staff, Members, and Guests?


tell me this is the road you want to take with me because I will more then be happy to have these discussions with you

[Sam Fine]

This has been going on at The Magic Castle, ever since the current management has been in place.

Over 6 years ago, the dining and kitchen staff, came together under the pen name of Samantha Fine, and sent a letter to the members citing work place abuses.
I believe we even posted the letter on this very forum.
The letter we sent caused a minor uproar with the membership, and they demanded to know what was going on from management.
Joe Furlow and his minions, insisted that the letter was written by one or two disgruntled employees.
Why else hide behind a nom de plume?
Of course, the reason why we used the pen name was we feared retaliation.
The Board and Joe Furlow scoffed at that notion, and insisted we out ourselves and prove that we were indeed who we said we were.
They scheduled a meeting for Samantha Fine, to meet with the President at the time NPH, Joe Furlow, and members of the board, and discuss our grievances.
I’m certain Joe Furlow and the others present during the meeting, were quite stunned when over 30 employee’s piled into the Peller Theatre that day.
Servers, Bartenders, bus boys, food runner, cocktail servers and cooks.
All screwed up the courage to face the man, we had all gone to separately, with our own individual complaints.
Only this time we’d confront him as a group, and in front of NPH and The Board.
After the meeting, the staff was hopeful that things would change, and a more serious, professional tone would be set by management.
This, of course, didn’t happen.
The abuses continued, and the complaints waved off.
The retaliation started.
Servers had their shifts cut.
Bartenders, who once worked in the Main bar, found themselves out of shifts, or in the Hat n Hare pub.
Verbal abuse from management increased.
People were fired, or simply quit out of frustration.
Many of the complaints are listed in the article.
Many of the allegations in the article came after our meeting.
Do not for one moment believe that those in charge of The Magic Castle, didn’t know what was occurring there.
They knew.
They decided to stick with Joe Furlow and his management team, because they saw him as a way to make money.
Max Maven, wasn’t on the Board at the time.
He’s always been wonderful to the staff and guests alike.
The same can be said for a vast majority of the membership.
Most of us who worked there, or continue to work there, really do believe it’s a special place.
Unfortunately, for the membership, The Castle’s great secret has been exposed in the Times.
It could have been avoided, along with all of the lawsuits.
There really is only one thing the Board can do to signify that they understand the seriousness of the accusations level against The Castle.
The questions is, will they do it.
Knowing how that place operates, I wouldn’t hold my breath.

[Clifford the Red]

My friend and famous magician Joe Monti confronted the board and Joe Furlow with many of these abuses years ago and was deemed a troublemaker and a liar and banned for life from the Castle after being a member for decades. As part of the remedies will the board publicly apologize to Joe Monti and reinstate him with no lapse?

[Brad Henderson]

Joe Monti has several issues beyond any confrontation with the board that would make his reinstatement problematic. He’s burned a lot of bridges. The reasons for that can be discussed by others who know him better.

[Robert77]

A few replies:
To the person who posted last: I have heard that some posts about the article were deleted from the Magic Cafe. I can assure you that no one from the AMA Board of Directors or Magic Castle management asked for that to be done.

I don’t know why you would imagine that we haven’t reached out to members who have grievances. We have. We are trying to make our club better. If you read the article and then have only heard from the aggrieved, then you have not attempted to learn what is actually happening.

I’ll say it again: Some of what was in that newspaper story was true. The members of the Board (who, just for the record, are unpaid volunteers) are putting in major effort. Since late March, some weeks I have worked more than eighty hours on these concerns. I just got done with a Zoom meeting of the Board, that lasted four and a half hours, and was immediately followed by over an hour of writing to add to the couple of hours I spent answering e-mail in this regard.

But sure, thanks for your recommendation.

This response from a member of the magic community respected for his intellect is grossly disappointing.

"I can assure you that no one from the AMA Board of Directors or Magic Castle management asked for that to be done."

Anyone who's familiar with the Crap'e knows that censorship is a feature there, not a bug.

" If you read the article and then have only heard from the aggrieved, then you have not attempted to learn what is actually happening. If you read the article and then have only heard from the aggrieved, then you have not attempted to learn what is actually happening."

Where should people be reaching out? Clearly not the Magic Cafe, nor the Genii Forums.

" Since late March, some weeks I have worked more than eighty hours on these concerns. I just got done with a Zoom meeting of the Board, that lasted four and a half hours, and was immediately followed by over an hour of writing to add to the couple of hours I spent answering e-mail in this regard."

So this has been acknowledged as a problem by the Board since March, and yet no one was prepared to deal with this honestly when the LA Times article came out? Instead we get this from you, implying that WE are at fault for not knowing the whole picture?

Truly disappointing.

[Max Maven]

I started writing more replies, but it’s simpler to accept that I’m a disappointing coward.

And meanwhile, I’ve got work to do, and problems to continue trying to fix.

[Bob Farmer]

Max Maven deserves respect not insults. Whatever problems may exist at the Magic Castle, they should be solved there, not here and not in other forums. Trolling from the sidelines accomplishes nothing.

[Evan Shuster]

Well said, Bob! I completely agree.

[Chris Aguilar]

Max Maven deserves respect not insults. Whatever problems may exist at the Magic Castle, they should be solved there, not here and not in other forums. Trolling from the sidelines accomplishes nothing.

Respectfully Bob,

If anyone (Max included) chooses to publicly denigrate/diminish the problematical experiences being shared in the article (or even in this very thread) without being able to provide details, perhaps those folks should reconsider that sort of commentary. Or not be upset when others (in my view, with some justification) draw attention to such non constructive (and often somewhat tone deaf) discourse.

[Brad Henderson]

An unidentified poster makes unsubstantiated claims against unnamed individuals that occurred at some time and at some place in the castle. The only thing we know is that this undefined behavior is alleged to have occurred SEVERAL times, by members, staff and guests. We are told people were notified but are not told when, how, or who.

So -how does that solve any problem,anywhere?

All it does is serve to disparage the castle with no possible result from the post other than disparaging the castle.

An odd choice for someone who brags about their performances there.

Does this mean the poster’s claims are not true?

No

But given the manner, venue, and content of the accusation It is a meaningless gesture - one that I can’t imagine a reasonable person could possibly consider to serve any purpose other than sling mud.

Max signs his name. I sign my name. Chris signs his name. If something happened let it be know. Name names. Detail the actions. Share the documentation of your grievance filing.

Then perhaps something can be done.

Until then, enjoy the spotlight as it seems that’s all you are seeking.