Fool US

Discuss the latest news and rumors in the magic world.
MagicbyAlfred
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Re: Fool US

Postby MagicbyAlfred » July 29th, 2020, 8:44 pm

Tom Moore wrote:I find it very interesting that dozens of performers presenting brilliant, original, creative, entertaining COMMERCIAL performances produced a dozen or so comments on this board, but the idea that P&T might have vaguely exposed the 101 of magic secrets has produced dozens of outraged posts very indicative of the misplaced view most magicians have about the art and industry as a whole.


No, that is not true. They did not "vaguely" expose the French Drop. They did so very expressly, specifically by name, and with a detailed demonstration. And, can you point me to the alleged "dozens" of outraged posts? I can't seem to find them. Finally, I take it that you believe your view of the "art and industry" to be superior to that of most magicians?

Tom Moore
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Re: Fool US

Postby Tom Moore » July 30th, 2020, 2:46 pm

Well if magician’s have a problem with the French drop exposure then you’re gonna really hate their other show “try this at home” ....

And no Alfred I don’t think my views are superior and I’m mildly offended you decided to put such words in my mouth. My original post highlites the well known existing phenomena that a certain subset of magicians value the keeping of “secrets” above all other considerations within the art of magic and the magic industry - my post was simply to point out how precisely this thread validated what had previously been just an academic theory.

The fact that magicians pounced on the exposure of a slight that no-one uses blatantly in their professional performance yet make little to no proclamations on the many interesting and innovative elements and performances in the show is something that fascinated me.

Personally I really didn’t like that routine simply because it just didn’t work. I understand that they weren’t happy with it either - in the live show it was a genuine touching and theatrical moment but that just didn’t translate to the screen as broadcast.
"Ingenious" - Ben Brantley: New York Times

thomasmoorecreative

MagicbyAlfred
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Re: Fool US

Postby MagicbyAlfred » July 30th, 2020, 2:48 pm

Sorry Tom, I apologize.

Steve Mills
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Re: Fool US

Postby Steve Mills » July 30th, 2020, 8:28 pm

Tom Moore wrote:I find it very interesting that dozens of performers presenting brilliant, original, creative, entertaining COMMERCIAL performances produced a dozen or so comments on this board, but the idea that P&T might have vaguely exposed the 101 of magic secrets has produced dozens of outraged posts very indicative of the misplaced view most magicians have about the art and industry as a whole.


"interesting", but not surprising, I trust.
I'm a living example that if you speak softly, you will get hit by a big stick.

Bill Duncan
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Re: Fool US

Postby Bill Duncan » July 30th, 2020, 11:39 pm

MagicbyAlfred wrote:Magicians who engage in exposure don't "push" the boundaries of our art; it destroys them.


So for the English language that would mean magic was officially destroyed when?
1583?
1635?

Exposure has always existed, yet magic endures. But instead of creating content about how to make magic better we spend our time on this...

MagicbyAlfred
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Re: Fool US

Postby MagicbyAlfred » July 31st, 2020, 1:29 am

Bill Duncan Wrote: "Exposure has always existed, yet magic endures."

Yes, and war has always existed, yet the world endures.

Bill Duncan
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Re: Fool US

Postby Bill Duncan » August 1st, 2020, 12:45 am

I'm not sure if you're making my point, or yours.

MagicbyAlfred
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Re: Fool US

Postby MagicbyAlfred » August 1st, 2020, 6:19 am

Bill Duncan wrote:I'm not sure if you're making my point, or yours.


It's a secret, and I would prefer not to reveal it....

Chris Randal2
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Re: Fool US

Postby Chris Randal2 » August 1st, 2020, 11:25 pm

I almost peed my pants watching this. What a great bit. I really enjoyed this from Eric Dittleman I hope he has this in notes or somewhere I can purchase it. Super funny

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmseOWajylE

Michael Rubinstein
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Re: Fool US

Postby Michael Rubinstein » August 6th, 2020, 10:16 pm

This thread kinda went two ways. With regards to the exposure of the French Drop, everyone's grandfather shows this to their grandkids, every actor on TV does this badly when they need to do a vanish, so I don't think it hurt anyone. Even if someone never saw that, if a coin is made to vanish the spectator will assume it is in the other hand unless you know how to negate that by your followup action.
As for being embarrassed to not fool Penn and Teller, I was on season 5, and presented my Twilight Zone Wild Coin routine. Going in I was told by both the producers and Mike Close that my goal wasn't to fool them, it was to put on a good show. The producers had selected my routine, rejecting the ones I sent that I thought had a better chance of fooling them, because they cared more about the story. So going in I knew that although they may not have known every move, they would understand the gist of the routine. All they had to say was that it was sleight of hand and they "win". As such I changed the ending, hoping that at least the technique I used would fool them, and I asked them about it in a way that I had hoped would not be confrontational ( I had discussed this with Mike Close prior to the performance). But they got it. Their answer actually made me smile. Before the spot they waved to me when I came put on stage, and after the spot they met me in the hallway and complimented my act. Everyone treated me very well, and I had a blast filming the intro with the guys who put it together. I don't think any performer is upset when they are busted, because they understand what the real purpose of the show is for. Everyone on the show gets to use it in their pubblicity. Sure, it's great to say you fooled them, but pretty great just to be on the show. Thanks again to all the people who work so hard to put that show together!

Peter Ross
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Re: Fool US

Postby Peter Ross » August 6th, 2020, 11:42 pm

Mr. Rubinstein, I'm genuinely happy you didn't feel embarrassed when having to admit you didn't fool Penn and Teller on a TV show called Fool Us. I've heard other magicians on the show describe the similar positive experience that you had.

But that doesn't change the fact that I felt embarrassed for you as a viewer. That moment always seems awkward, and somehow just...wrong. As I said, my young son judges the quality of magicians on the program by who fools P&T and who doesn't, because, despite the best efforts of the producers, hosts, and performers to present Fool Us first and foremost as a showcase for great magic, my son is logically reacting to the basic premise and purpose of the game show (as if the title left any doubt), for that's what it is.

Obviously, seven successful seasons means that small awkward moment has not dampened viewer enthusiasm enough to stop watching it (I still tune in excitedly), but I don't believe for a moment that viewers would have made the show the success that it is if it were simply a magic variety show hosted by P&T. No, it's the basic concept that's the hook, no matter how much everyone involved wants to downplay it.

Congratulations on your entertaining and successful appearance.

Tim Furneaux
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Re: Fool US

Postby Tim Furneaux » August 7th, 2020, 1:38 am

I have an old popular magazine with the back cover exposing the one-ahead technique, advertising Camel cigarettes. It had a broad circulation in it's day. It didn't ruin the secret. Done right, it's still a real fooler. Despite having been exposed over & over again.

Brad Henderson
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Re: Fool US

Postby Brad Henderson » August 7th, 2020, 11:26 am

Well, that may have more to do with the fact that not a lot of people who were smoking cigarettes in 1933 are around to see that trick performed today.

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erdnasephile
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Re: Fool US

Postby erdnasephile » August 7th, 2020, 8:19 pm

Dr. Rubinstein: thanks for sharing--I enjoyed reading your perspective. What a great experience and opportunity! Your performance on the show looked really smooth. May I ask: was it nerve wracking to perform before millions of people? If so, did you do anything special to deal with the nerves?

Bill Duncan
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Re: Fool US

Postby Bill Duncan » August 8th, 2020, 1:44 am

Peter Ross wrote:But that doesn't change the fact that I felt embarrassed for you as a viewer. That moment always seems awkward, and somehow just...wrong. As I said, my young son judges the quality of magicians on the program by who fools P&T and who doesn't, because, despite the best efforts of the producers, hosts, and performers to present Fool Us first and foremost as a showcase for great magic, my son is logically reacting to the basic premise and purpose of the game show (as if the title left any doubt), for that's what it is.


I wonder how much of your son's reaction is due to your discomfort with the premise? I have an adult co-worker who with his girlfriend are ardent fans. They don't seem to care about who fools P&T anywhere near as much as folks here see to.

Michael Rubinstein
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Re: Fool US

Postby Michael Rubinstein » August 8th, 2020, 2:23 pm

Erdnasephile, to be honest, you don't think about the people watching the show. The cameras are out of the way and really you just play to Penn and Teller, and they are watching you on an i pad. What removed any nervousness, however, was going the day before, sitting in the audience, and watching an actual taping session. I saw Allison screw up her lines, and one of the magicians had his prop explode at the beginning of his routine. In both cases, they just did it over. So, I figured, if I screw something up, it can just be done over. That alleviates a lot of pressure! Also, knowing the patter so well that it can be done in your sleep is important! Glad you enjoyed the act!


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