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The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 9th, 2019, 8:04 am
by CraigMitchell
Good article on the state of Vegas entertainment ...

https://vegasunfiltered.blog/2019/04/08 ... HPVRaAxiD0

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 9th, 2019, 10:24 am
by erdnasephile
Thanks! Enjoyed the article (except for the gratuitous shot at flyover country ;) ). Sounds like a case of only the strong survive in a cutthroat business.

To be honest, I stopped going to Vegas years ago. As Nevada's economy tanked, some of the tourist areas just seemed to be getting more and more trashy and kids handing out porn leaflets on the strip is very sad to me. Many people love the city though, so more power to 'em.

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 9th, 2019, 12:41 pm
by Brad Henderson
What I find interesting is his choice of example. Fuerza Burta may have been a game changer over a decade ago. I first heard of it (or a show just like it) when it had a residency in Vegas. It closed then too. They had one in NYC which I saw. Good show.

This was at least 10 years ago. Maybe longer.

When I saw the show had returned to Vegas I found it interesting. That it left already, having left once before, isn’t really a sign of the times - is it?

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 9th, 2019, 9:21 pm
by Richard Kaufman
Asking tourists to stand for an entire show is just plain dumb.

The article lost me as soon as I saw that racist photo in the middle.

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 9th, 2019, 11:34 pm
by erdnasephile
You're 100% right, RK. I'm embarrassed to say I skipped right over that without reading it thinking it was one of those embedded click bait ads that I avoid like the plague. The fact the author put that ridiculous image in the article is deplorable.

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 10th, 2019, 1:12 am
by Bill Mullins
I read the article, I read the review linked in the article, and I read the wikipedia article about Fuerza Bruta, and I still have no idea what Fuerza Bruta is.

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 10th, 2019, 9:50 am
by Roger M.
Sometimes directors of shows get overly affectionate with a specific technology, and that technology goes on to form the foundation of their show.
In the case of Fuerza Bruta, the major technology infecting the show is aerial rigging of human beings ... flying people if you will.

The problem though is that:
    a) it's not new
    b) spectators lose their interest after about 5 minutes
    c) it is a technology, not a story line, and as a result it's somewhat hollow in terms of connecting with the audience.

Cirque are the masters of aerial rigging people, and the single largest space on their campus in Montreal is designed solely for that purpose:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cirqu ... 73.6170095
... but even Cirque doesn't depend entirely on aerial rigging to carry a show ... and as simple as Cirque stories can tend to be, there is always a story for the audience to connect with.

But in the end, there's only so much you can do with the "a circus without animals" concept, and the fact that Cirque has got a few decades out of Las Vegas is kind of cool, but eventually the Emperor has no clothes.
In the case of Fuerza Bruta, the Emperor never had any clothes to begin with, and you're basically watching theatre technicians putting on a show about aerial rigging, staging, lights, and sound ... with the actors just another part of that list - being used only as props.

In short, Fuerza Bruta is a huge, spectacular, expensive show ... but the audience ultimately couldn't care less about any of the characters onstage ... never a great formula for a successful run.
(BTW, Fuerza Bruta isn't about anything other than demonstrating what you can do with the technology of aerial rigging, there is no "story" to grok).

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 10th, 2019, 11:30 am
by The Burnaby Kid
Very quickly, the picture isn't racist. It's a reference to a meme involving Kimberly Wilkins from a news interview. Here's an interview with the lady afterwards on The View about the whole thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH5YISZhs4c

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 10th, 2019, 1:34 pm
by Dustin Stinett
Let me see, I have been walking around Las Vegas all day, since that's what most of us who go there do, and now it's time to see a show. Am I going to pick the one where I can sit and relax or be required to stand there the whole time? Hmmm... gee, I might be a bumpkin from somewhere other than NYC, but I'm not an idiot.

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 10th, 2019, 3:54 pm
by CraigMitchell
To play devils advocate - they are thronging to the night clubs and are "required to stand there the whole time" ;-)

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 10th, 2019, 5:09 pm
by Brad Henderson
Different demographics.

I saw the show in NY. It was an interesting experience. Groundbreaking? There were some great moments, that’s for sure.

The standing was a problem. I had just started to have back issues and I did not enjoy the show as much as I could if I hadn’t been required to stand for the entire time.

The problem with it wasnt that it didn’t have a story line. To say cirque shows have a storyline isn’t really accurate either. There are unifying elements throughout the cirque shows, but to say this is the reason they are successful and other shows aren’t misses the point. There were many ‘scenes’ in FB and they held together well - as well as any show by a dance troupe or blue men might.

FB was more of a rave than a ‘show’ (speaking as someone who is as expert on raves as you might expect me to be). The experience was more like being on a dance floor than in a theater - some people going crazy in the middle and some of us watching from the periphery.

And while there are people who go to Vegas for this type of experience, I would guess they would rather have the real thing where they can get drunk and possibly hook up as a consequence of their time invested, rather than paying for an experience where they remain primarily spectators and without the social components of the dance party scene

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 10th, 2019, 11:55 pm
by Richard Kaufman
The Burnaby Kid wrote:Very quickly, the picture isn't racist. It's a reference to a meme involving Kimberly Wilkins from a news interview. Here's an interview with the lady afterwards on The View about the whole thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH5YISZhs4c


It was indeed racist in the context in which it was used.

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 11th, 2019, 3:28 am
by CraigMitchell
On the developing entertainment landscape - Caesars are also overhauling the Colosseum following Celine's departure
https://www.reviewjournal.com/entertain ... p-1637739/

Interestingly they are removing the fixed seating in the lower levels to allow for the option of "standing general admission" similar to the Park Theater down the Strip.

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 11th, 2019, 8:16 am
by Brad Henderson
Young people like to stand at concerts of famous people. The market for world famous music acts is not the same as cirque style shows. The original article mentioned this.

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 12th, 2019, 12:30 pm
by Bill Marquardt
For what it is worth, Las Vegas is pretty much the bowling capital of the world. I'd rather go bowling than to stand for a show.

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 12th, 2019, 1:09 pm
by Bob Farmer
On behalf of all Canadians, I would like apologize for Celine Dion, and while I'm at it, Nickelback. The former is a decibel-shattering screamer and the latter, dumber than a bag of hammers.

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 12th, 2019, 1:22 pm
by erdnasephile
Bob-- if you're going to go that far, you gotta apologize for the Biebs too!

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 12th, 2019, 2:54 pm
by Bob Farmer
Of course!

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 12th, 2019, 3:01 pm
by I.M. Magician
Bill Marquardt wrote:For what it is worth, Las Vegas is pretty much the bowling capital of the world. I'd rather go bowling than to stand for a show.


Bill:

When you go bowling, do you produce your bowling ball from a briefcase? :D

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 12th, 2019, 3:05 pm
by Joe Lyons
Bob Farmer wrote:On behalf of all Canadians, I would like apologize for Celine Dion, and while I'm at it, Nickelback. The former is a decibel-shattering screamer and the latter, dumber than a bag of hammers.

Bob's just setting us up. Now he gets to take credit for Vernon......

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 12th, 2019, 3:49 pm
by Roger M.
Rush too .... those metal-heads ... right Bob?

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 12th, 2019, 4:29 pm
by Anthony Vinson
Roger M. wrote:Rush too .... those metal-heads ... right Bob?


Okay, I know you're just baiting Bob, but no apologies will ever be required for Rush. None. Ever. :D

Av

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 12th, 2019, 4:45 pm
by AJM
Hear, hear...

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 12th, 2019, 5:19 pm
by Bob Farmer
Having worked with Rush since 1982, I can only say they make up for all that other less-than stellar Canadian music in spades (and diamonds, clubs and hearts).

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 12th, 2019, 8:15 pm
by Roger M.
I'm kidding of course.
Alex and Geddy I plain old love.
Neil ... well, Neil I worship - not just for his chops, but for what he's persevered through in his life and come out the other side. I read and re-read his books ... best motorcycle/life books out there.

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 12th, 2019, 8:32 pm
by Ted M
Better than Robert M Pirsig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance?

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 12th, 2019, 10:42 pm
by Joe Lyons
Ted M wrote:Better than Robert M Pirsig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance?

Couldn’t be. That book blew my mind when I was eighteen.

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 12th, 2019, 11:19 pm
by Roger M.
Ted M wrote:Better than Robert M Pirsig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance?

Very different.
Neil’s first book is (unfortunately) born of profound tragedy ... which affects the reader deeply.

The motorcycle, and his endless ride are what literally allow him to continue to live his life.
It’s not a light read.

Fortunately, as I noted, he came out the other side and continues to write and play music today.

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 13th, 2019, 12:00 am
by Joe Lyons
Sounds like I need to read Peart’s book as well.

Pirsig’s book also affected me deeply. It was a fictionalized autobiography that covered his near descent into madness and subsequent electroshock therapy, his relationship with his son (who tragically died a few years after the book was published) as well as a philosophical discussion of the definition of quality, subjectivity and objectivity, etc..

Also a deep, moving read.

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 13th, 2019, 9:11 am
by Tom Frame
After losing the original album and then CD years ago, I received 2112 last week. Ah....bliss.

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 13th, 2019, 11:05 am
by Anthony Vinson
Tom Frame wrote:After losing the original album and then CD years ago, I received 2112 last week. Ah....bliss.


Just never gets old, does it? The entire album rocks. Same for Hemispheres.

Av

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 13th, 2019, 11:58 am
by Bob Farmer
To stay on topic: Rush has played Las Vegas. It went well.

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 13th, 2019, 3:02 pm
by Dustin Stinett
No worries, Bob. I've been trying to figure out how to work Rush into the thread on Erdnase.

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 13th, 2019, 3:26 pm
by Leonard Hevia
Dustin Stinett wrote:No worries, Bob. I've been trying to figure out how to work Rush into the thread on Erdnase.


Rush has already been in the Erdnase thread. When Tom Sawyer posted there for a time, I posted a few of the lyrics to that song.

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 13th, 2019, 9:08 pm
by Richard Kaufman
Can someone please explain to me what is going on in this thread?

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 14th, 2019, 8:27 am
by Bob Farmer
This should do it:

“We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, and a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers... and also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of Budweiser, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.
Not that we needed all that for the trip, but once you get locked into a serious drug collection, the tendency is to push it as far as you can. The only thing that really worried me was the ether. There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. And I knew we'd get into that rotten stuff pretty soon. Probably at the next gas station.”
--the esteemed Dr. Hunter S. Thompson, Fear and Loathing In Las Vegas

Historical note: I read the original in Rolling Stone and right then decided to follow Dr. Gonzo's example and go to law school.

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 14th, 2019, 10:06 am
by Anthony Vinson
Richard Kaufman wrote:Can someone please explain to me what is going on in this thread?


It was invaded from the Great White North by a Canadian prog-rock band.

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 14th, 2019, 10:44 am
by Dustin Stinett
Richard Kaufman wrote:Can someone please explain to me what is going on in this thread?

It ran its course on the article that started it. And now we apparently have settled on the fact that, if not for Rush (even though they are now retired), Las Vegas would be dead. It's all good.

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 14th, 2019, 2:10 pm
by Roger M.
Richard Kaufman wrote:Can someone please explain to me what is going on in this thread?


Las Vegas is Crumbling = Celine Dion = Justin Bieber = Canadian musicians = Rush = Bob = Rush band members (which, by extension includes Bob) = Neil Peart (greatest drummer in the world) = Motorcycle/Life books = Neil wrote a book called "Ghost Rider" = Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance is also a good book = Erdnase (always seems to pop up somewhere) = WTF is going on in this thread?.

Meanwhile, Las Vegas (apparently) continues to crumble.

Simple!

Re: The Vegas dream is crumbling ...

Posted: April 14th, 2019, 3:19 pm
by Brad Henderson
Richard Kaufman wrote:Can someone please explain to me what is going on in this thread?


Bob Farmer killed Las Vegas.

Mystery solved.