The Genii Forum

Yes, a new version of Greater Magic is coming and will take several years to complete.

It will be two or (more likely) three volumes rather than one.

The physical size of the volumes will be increased from 6 x 8 to 8.5 x 11.

The original text will get a general upgrade in regards to missing details or errors.

An equal amount of new material will be added throughout, along with new chapters.

(The original edition of Greater Magic is almost 400,000 words. I expect the new edition to be 800,000 words.)

I would be interested to hear any suggestions you may have regarding items (published or unpublished) which you think should be included. You can post them here.

Can you talk more about your large-scope vision for this?

Are you channeling John Northern Hilliard to create a new Greater Magic for the 21st century? Greater Magic 2020, as it were? A giant tome collecting the very best of conjuring development of the past 80 years? (Plus reformatting Greater Magic 1938?)

Measurements and word counts aside, does that express the soul of this project?

Richard,
is the new edition going to contain Greater Magic, More Greater Magic and The Lost Notebooks?
Or material that was excluded/left out, or recently discovered?

The only hope i have for the new edition is that it has more general magic besides just card magic...


Justin

As much as I'm looking forward to this I'm saddened that the Larry Jennings books may again be kicked into the long grass.

Ted M wrote:Can you talk more about your large-scope vision for this?

Are you channeling John Northern Hilliard to create a new Greater Magic for the 21st century? Greater Magic 2020, as it were? A giant tome collecting the very best of conjuring development of the past 80 years? (Plus reformatting Greater Magic 1938?)

Measurements and word counts aside, does that express the soul of this project?

I think you pretty much have the idea. I will be jettisoning some material from the original. An enormous chapter on cigarette and cigar magic has no place in a book today. (And there are over 14,000 copies of the original edition of Greater Magic in print, so if someone pines for the items I leave out, they will still be accessible.)

JustinM wrote:Richard,
is the new edition going to contain Greater Magic, More Greater Magic and The Lost Notebooks?
Or material that was excluded/left out, or recently discovered?

The only hope i have for the new edition is that it has more general magic besides just card magic...


Justin

It's going to contain most of Greater Magic, all of More Greater Magic (but the section on the tricks from Hilliard's notebooks will disappear, and those tricks will go into the actual body of the book where they belong), but only a few items from the Lost Notebooks. The bulk of the added material will come from 1950 to today, which will double the size of the book.

Yes, the chapters on general magic are going to be beefed up considerably.

Wow.
Richard, if you’re not going to call this Greatest Magic, we are.

There is no title better than the original, and so it will remain.

- Chapter on memdeck magic
- If Max isn't going to publish a whole book on the Gilbreath principle, could he write a chapter on it for this book?
- Torn & Restored Card, 10 Card Poker Deal, ACAAN need some strong representation
- Pineapple Surprise does not need representation
- Chapter on Vernon's influence and ouevre? Philosophy, moves and effects -- so much of his work (and his preferred "natural" style) became the Standard.
- Chapter on the Spanish school? Philosophy and effects to illustrate it?
- Chapter on modern Japanese magic?
- Chapter on modern German magic?

Richard Kaufman wrote:
An enormous chapter on cigarette and cigar magic has no place in a book today.

What about Juul manipulation (he says half-facetiously)?
Or maybe they're better suited for paddle moves.

Ted M wrote:- Chapter on memdeck magic
- If Max isn't going to publish a whole book on the Gilbreath principle, could he write a chapter on it for this book?
- Torn & Restored Card, 10 Card Poker Deal, ACAAN need some strong representation
- Pineapple Surprise does not need representation
- Chapter on Vernon's influence and ouevre? Philosophy, moves and effects -- so much of his work (and his preferred "natural" style) became the Standard.
- Chapter on the Spanish school? Philosophy and effects to illustrate it?
- Chapter on modern Japanese magic?
- Chapter on modern German magic?

Great suggestions Ted. Perhaps David Ben or Roberto Giobbi or both should write that chapter on Vernon.

Though it was originally Hilliard's plan to have lengthy chapters on individuals, he later changed his mind. I will follow his lead.

Here's a short wish list:
Through pageant and old wine to playing cards - so many items need context. Simonize?
Can we get some perspective on the "oriental" habits of that age - and watch out for the religion of others?

It is a time worn saying that the hand is quicker than the eye. This
is not true. It is true that the hand may be trained to execute a complicated
movement which the unaccustomed eye cannot follow clearly atfirst sight,
but perfect sleight of hand is deliberate, allowing the eye to follow it with
perfect ease. Simply to confuse people is no great accomplishment, but to
cover up what is really done and at the same time to make people see
something absolutely different and be positive about it, requires great
ability, resourcefulness and tireless practice.
-J.N.H.

citations(s)? Hofzinser's letters?

On the coins section - see if Mickey wants to discuss his work. And notice the illustration Figure 1. under Using the Sleeves.

Cell Phones? I get you about smoking paraphernalia ( maybe ) but I still hope there's some mention of our modern habit of carrying cell phones which are almost as fragile as eggs and let almost everyone crystal gaze into far lands with just a few gestures of thumb and forefinger.

Hello Richard, excellent project and I am looking forward to have a copy, hat hopefully will pass to generations

Few comments, understanding that my perspective is not as educated in magic as many and I am mostly a hobbist

1) Cigarettes and Cigars, while both items will not have a place in the future, some of the moves are being used with paddles, knives and other props. Maybe leave the section with the caveat that will only represent the moves to be used with other props. If you totally remove it, the history will disappear as well
2) Combo cups on C&Bs, I think the Combo set is more modern and would need some mention somewhere
3) New gimicked coins, Splits, TUC, flippers, others?
4) Stage props that became close up props example: Linking rings, Ogawa, etc
5) I like the idea of a Bio for the main magician that changed/leap forward the art, maybe just one pager for Thruston, Carter, Herrman, Fu Manchu, Okito, Lavand, Ascanio, Tamariz, Copperfield, Blaine, and many others. There are a series of books in B&N title 30 seconds series Philosophy or 30 seconds Physics, that for each main idea they give you 3 pieces of information. One page extended narrative, Born, died, influence, where it worked, then a 3 secs small table "Invented the sawing woman" and a 3 min idea (slightly larger table on the page).
Who ever wants to know more about a specific person, there are books for that
6) Something on Tenyo and tenyo like props. Toys that do magic (no disrespect)
7) Bizarre magic
8) Wallets, a quick explanation of what they are and fow they work, Himber, Mulica, etc.

I hope it give you some ideas

Hmmm...this project sounds like it's being done in the spirit of what Harry Lorayne did with Tarbell 7 back in the day--bringing into the light some of the yet to be published original stuff, but lots of current stuff described in stylistically consistent manner. Sounds exciting!

Just spitballin' here....

I second a chapter on modern coin gaffs since it is so prominent today and tech has advanced sufficiently to warrant coverage.
Not a fan of a Tenyo chapter, since Tenyoism has that covered and then some.
I would love to see a chapter on Card Stars USA circa 2000's and Card Stars World circa 2000's
Ditto for Coin Stars USA and Coin Stars World.
Sleight-Free magic seems to now be all the rage--a chapter on the good stuff would be welcome
Would a cardistry chapter be completely out of place?
How about "New Wine in Old Bottles" where some modern uses of classic props are explored. For example, some of the current Okito Box stuff is far different than the classic uses. Same with the thumb tip and linking rings.
Agree with deep sixing the cigarette stuff.
Agree with memdeck chapter.

It is my deep hope that the new version of Greater Magic does not resemble Tarbell 7 in any way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Ugh...sorry...no offense intended. (I actually like that book)

Regardless, I look forward to the new Greater Magic!

Is Tarbell 7 a timeless book? No--it's quite clearly a product of the late 1960s/early 1970s.

Lots of advances in mentalism methods--and I'm not talking about electronics. I don't know if this is within your intended scope.

Yes, it is, and I believe we have that are covered.

RK:
Do you envision the original material being kept separate from the new material or will new items be included in some of the original chapters? Will the original format of the material remain or will there be a new format throughout?

New material will be intermingled, not separated. Ace Assemblies, for example, will all still be in one place.
Don't know about the design yet. Too early for that.

There is so much that has come along since the original that deserves to be in a book called "Greater Magic"

- breather crimp
- false tabled shuffles
-- Zarrow
- false in-the-hands shuffles
-- del Gaudio
-- Lennart Green
-- Hein
-- etc.
- card revelations
-- hot shot cut
-- Martin Lewis card spin
-- Lennart Green top shot
- a whole chapter on Lennart Green
- bill switch
- rubber band magic -- crazy man's handcuffs, etc.
- Bob Read's bottle production
- silks -- Berg knot
- Elmsley count
- T&R card -- J. C. Wagner, Hollingworth and variants
- T&R cigarette papers
- B'Wave and 8 card Brainwave

Thanks, Bill. Way ahead on many of those ideas, but there are some good ones I haven't thought of.

A thought

Here is a dream I have had for some time.

This book is a wonderful idea. My dream is to make it really smashing.

Produce a DVD to go along with it. Even if just a performance set.

As you are in the early stages, maybe it could be part of the process.

Just a thought.

Al

I think you will need to address technology(movies,television,fast transportation, the internet and cell phones) and how it has affected Magic for good and bad.

Also online magazines and forums!

Wow! This project sounds truly massive. I don't know how you are going to decide what should or shouldn't be included. Let me know if you need a proofreader.

More possibilities:

Coins --
- Three Fly and variations (Townsend, Kurtz, Kenner, Kohler, etc.)
- Flurry-type routines
- Fickle Nickel
- coin through dental dam
- modern versions of matrix (Yank Hoe's Sympathetic Coins and Crawford's Migratory Coins is already in GM)
Ropes
- Professor's Nightmare
- Ring and String
Cards
- Lateral Palm (including Dan Garrett's Swivel color change, and Lennart Green's Laser Deal)
- Asher Twist
- Unshuffled
- 51 Faces North
- Open Prediction
- Out of this World
- Touch
- card to balloon
- card warp/bill warp
- rising cards (Devano deck, Kundalini Rising, Ray's Rise, other modern methods)
- Nine Card Problem
- Miraskill
- Sam the Bellhop
- six card repeat
- Homing card
- Scarne's two card transposition
- Liwag's false faro shuffle
- Edward Victor's Eleven Card Trick (original, or as done by Derek Dingle, or other stage versions of Cards Across; or the version done with dollar bills, as by Bargatze)
Impromptu
- Boomerang Rubber Band
- Smiling George
- Van Senus penetrating safety pins ("Piff Paff Poof" is already there)
- paper balls over the head
Mentalism
- Solberg's work on Magic Squares
- Powers of Darkness
Miscellaneous
- Sanada gimmick
- watch steal
- wand spin (under cups and balls)
- Striking vanish
- Sefalaljia
- chop cup
- twisting a paper napkin to a rose
- Gypsy Thread (the "Hindu Thread" that is in GM is not as good as modern methods)
- Sachs/Sack's dice trick
- linking finger rings
- Harry Anderson's Needle Through Arm
- egg bag
- dice stacking

(I've tried to check, and I don't think any of these are in the existing GM, but I could be wrong.)

I can see the argument for taking out the material on cigarettes/cigars, but I'd note that it wasn't all that long ago that Akira Fujii sold a bunch of DVDs on the linking cigarettes (which was essentially "Impromptu Linking Ring" from Hugard's Annual, 1937); that Mullica's routine is still fantastic; that John Rogers's wooden cigars need routines; and that many cigarette moves can easily be adapted to crayons for the restaurant worker.

OTOH, if it were me, the section on making your own flash paper would come right out.

Regardless of what gets excised, I hope the final version includes a list of what was pulled from earlier versions.

Jonathan Townsend wrote: And notice the illustration Figure 1. under Using the Sleeves.

What's wrong with it? Fig 1 on p. 966 is worse

Hi Richard i have a few erratas search in Greater Magic if you like say me.
Regarts

Bill Mullins wrote:

Jonathan Townsend wrote: And notice the illustration Figure 1. under Using the Sleeves.

What's wrong with it? Fig 1 on p. 966 is worse

What is the error here?

marselmarsel wrote:Hi Richard i have a few erratas search in Greater Magic if you like say me.
Regarts

Please give them to me in Spanish.

@Richard The sleeves figure in the coin section reminded me of Mickey Silver when does that trick passing the coin from hand to hand through his head.
The second picture, of the chopper, is "worse" in the sense that it's "chinese" caricature.

Back to updating the book:
Livestock production was popular - including big cats - then phased out of most performances.
The Hooker Rising Cards routine has been preserved. Recently performed with its secrets intact.
We missed a few greats who traveled the world including Fred Kaps and Al Goshman.
There's much more known about Hofzinser - including his use of double backed cards in Three Powers and the pocket rise.
We have much more information about misdirection from Slydini, Gary Kurtz, John Ramsay ...
We have some better understanding of how the mental process of being deceived happens - with examples provided by Wiseman and Schneider.
The coin assembly plot has been re-explored extensively thanks to Al Scheider's Matrix - and further after David Roth demonstrated that the trick can be done with bare hands - further popularized by Mike Ammar.
The Bamburg/Okito coin box became its own field of study and industry - See Sawa about people packed into a subway.

Jonathan Townsend wrote:Back to updating the book:

The Hooker Rising Cards routine has been preserved. Recently performed with its secrets intact.

It's already described in the existing Greater Magic (see p. 424 of the K&G edition). "All in all I can only report that this exposition of the Rising Cards is the nearest approach to real magic that I have ever witnessed or ever hope to witness." Unless someone holds a gun to John Gaughan's head, I doubt there is much more to be said about it.

Bill Mullins wrote:...It's already described in the existing Greater Magic (see p. 424 of the K&G edition). ... I doubt there is much more to be said about it.

Just saying that almost a century later the trick and its secret are preserved.

Tony Curtis (or Janet Leigh?) owned a copy of Greater Magic. It looks like it was auctioned here (sans DJ; p. 206, lot 460; closed at $384). I wonder if it was a magic collector or a movie collector who won it.

The description of the Hooker Rising Cards will be updated for correctness. One of Hooker's greatest tricks was routining things in such a way that it was extremely difficult to later recall exactly what you saw.

Perhaps a section on "Invisible Thread Magic"?