You Tube exposure.

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You Tube exposure.

Postby performer » June 22nd, 2018, 7:51 pm

I have been very concerned about You Tube exposure for some time. I have already seen many examples of the harm it is doing to the art of magic. Now, I am no anti exposure fanatic by nature. I really don't care about television exposure of magic, or what important secrets you find you find in books written for the public. Or stuff that is sold to beginners that probably shouldn't be sold to them. I really did not care one whit about the Masked Magician and could never understand why magicians would get so agitated by it. However, You Tube is different because of its permanence. The other stuff would be exposed on TV and a week later laymen would have forgotten what the trick was let alone the secret.

You Tube does insidious damage to the art of magic because you can show a trick to someone and if they have been really, really impressed by it they will look it up on the internet and find some bonehead teenager exposing it on You Tube. I used to think many secrets would be safe because the seeker of secrets wouldn't know the name of the trick but I was wrong. They simply type in the description and find it that way.

I saw this with my own eyes. I saw a talented mentalist show someone the "psychokinetic touches" trick. The layman was astounded by it. Alas a bit TOO astounded. He was so astounded he typed in not the name of the trick but a description of what happened. He came by the next day and told the mentalist not only the secret of the trick which has astounded him the day before but the name of the bloody trick!

I do not accept the tosh put forward by some magicians that You Tube does no harm to magic because it brings more interest to the subject. This is complete balderdash. Orson Welles foresaw the eventual death of magic in 1947 if too many people got to know how it was all done. A magician showed someone the colour changing knives the other day and was chagrined to hear from some brat teenager, "Nice Paddle Move"

This has to stop. I am astonished that nobody seems to care about it yet they got all over excited about the Masked Magician. If it goes on the art of magic will not be the same in twenty years. There will be no laymen left. A secret exposed is like a burst balloon--there is nothing left.

Anyway, I decided to do something about it. I care even if nobody else does. I wrote a letter to Susan Wojcicki who is the CEO of You Tube. I made sure that she would get the letter by handwriting the envelope. When you do that it always gets there no matter how big the corporation.
Here she is anyway:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Wojcicki
She is also quite active on social media herself and you will find You Tube videos about her everywhere. And other places too, probably including facebook and everywhere else.

There has been no reply. However, I expected that so I am now going to start phase two of my campaign. I will be posting my letter to her here and other places on the internet which have good search engine exposure. Hopefully she will come across it and if there is enough of it perhaps we can get a response from her.

I cannot stop this You Tube exposure alone. The rest of you will have to help. A few hundred more letters to her might have some impact as well as a press campaign. I expect it would make an amusing story for the media.

I will post my letter to her here when I get time.

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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 22nd, 2018, 9:33 pm

I agree.
It is but one of thousands of the unintended consequences of the internet.
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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby Jack Shalom » June 22nd, 2018, 9:38 pm

Orson Welles foresaw the eventual death of magic in 1947...


Uh...I think over seventy years later, dear Orson will have to declare a statute of limitations on that prediction. Hasn't happened yet.

Which reminds me of the following:

A lecturing astronomy professor says to his class that in 175 trillion years, the Earth's sun will supernova, and the Earth and all the other planets in the solar system will be completely destroyed.

A sharp cry of horror is heard in the back of the room, and all heads turn to the red-faced young man who had made the noise. "Sorry," he sheepishly apologizes, "I thought you said 175 billion years."

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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby Ted M » June 22nd, 2018, 10:40 pm

Image

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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby performer » June 22nd, 2018, 10:52 pm

Here is what Orson Welles said about the matter. He said it in the foreword of the first magic book I ever read:
http://www.wellesnet.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=308
Read it when you get time. He would be rolling in his grave if he saw what was happening nowadays with the internet.

The people who are less dedicated to magic like the people above will be the ones who show the least concern. Well, I am not among them. I am not tilting at a windmill--I am tilting to a person. Years and years and years ago I got a job selling carbon paper. I was no good at it but I do remember one thing the sales manager said, "Remember, you are not selling to a building or a company---you are selling to a person" Well, I have reason to believe that Susan Wojcicki is a person. You study the person, not the company. I have done that. This is what I wrote:
............................................................................................................................................................................................

Susan Wojcicki
You Tube
1600 Ampitheatre Parkway
Mountain View CA 94043

10th May 2018


Dear Susan

I am writing to you about a matter which I have been concerned about for some time. My name is Mark Lewis. I am a professional magician and have been most of my life. I suppose you could even say that I have devoted my life to it. I regard the activity of conjuring to be an art form which brings wonder, laughter and joy to both children and adults. It is a creative as well as a performing art. Magicians spend hours creating illusions to entertain and mystify the public. It is also a wonderful hobby. Children who take up the art of magic develop self confidence and greater self esteem. And of course they love to watch it too!

Now what does all this have to do with You Tube, you may ask? Well, a large part of the appeal of magic is the secret. Without the secret of the tricks there is no wonder, no mystery and no beauty. Magic exposed is like a burst balloon—there is nothing left.

Alas this is where You Tube comes in. This wonderful technology is a double edged sword where the art of magic is concerned. On one hand you can see great illusions performed by masters of the art and it can be a great means of education too. Magicians often share their creativity and secrets among themselves by making their videos private and this is good for the art. However, on the other hand there is a very bad downside which is slowly eroding and destroying the art.

Alas there are hundreds of You Tube videos out there which are made public and exposing the secrets. A great proportion of these exposure videos are made by immature teenagers who find out the secrets and get a kick out of exposing them. The magic community has been concerned about this for some time but don’t really seem to be doing much about it. The joy of magic is being eroded, it is affecting the income of professional magicians and is having a very bad long term effect on the art.

There has always been exposures of tricks in books and even on television. However, they do no harm because people forget what they have read or seen very soon. However, you tube is permanently there and the videos can be seen at any time. What happens is that a performer will amaze someone so much that they go to google, type in the description of the incredible trick they have just seen and find out the secret. In the long run this will do great harm to the art.

So what am I asking for? Naturally I am not saying that magic videos should be banned! What I am proposing is a simple solution. Videos that are made private I have no problem with. What I suggest is that if a public video reveals a secret it should be open to anyone to flag it and report it in the same way you police copyright violations. It can then be reviewed by your staff and taken down.

It would be good public relations and the magicians community would love you for it! And for all I know it might make a good press release!

I hope you don’t mind me writing to you with my concerns. It is probably an issue that has never occurred to you! My magician friends were laughing at me when I said I would write to you and have told me it won’t do any good!

Well, nothing ventured –nothing gained! And I have more faith in you than they have. Call it gut feeling!

Anyway, let me know what you think!

Yours magically

Mark Lewis

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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby Jack Shalom » June 23rd, 2018, 12:03 am

YouTube exists to get views on their videos. You are simply making the case for her as to the desirability of the product. Without the threat of legal action--which is impossible in this kind of thing--you have nothing.

Sorry, but that's what the platform is about. Her allegiance is to her stockholders, not the magic community.

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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby performer » June 23rd, 2018, 6:45 am

Jack. To you, magic is just a pleasant hobby and not that important. To me, it is a way of life and in fact it IS my life. I take it very seriously. If we all take notice of your negativity then we will be defeated before we start. I am not giving in. I hope some of the more conscientious of you will write to this lady in the same way that I did. A press campaign would probably help. The media would love this kind of story.

I take your point about their stockholders but I am not asking for magic to be banned on you tube so the stockholders will be perfectly happy. I want the disclosures of secrets to be banned from public viewing. Make them private videos. All I want is if a public exposure is displayed that we have the right to flag it and have it made private or deleted. You Tube profits won't take a nosedive I promise you. It won't even make a pinprick of difference. And it will make very good public relations.

This lady has five children. Kids love magic but once they can find the secret merely for the searching they won't love it quite as much. There are some wonderful artists out there. Well, they won't be quite as wonderful if the secrets are exposed. A great art is being trivialised not only with you tube exposures but teaching kids magic at magic camps, the proliferation of secrets by magic dealers who will sell anything to anybody and so on. I can suffer these exposures because magic will survive them. It won't survive internet exposure though. Now ironically it will not be the bad magicians who suffer because nobody will be that interested in finding out their secrets anyway. It is the good magicians who will excite curiosity about their methods who will suffer.

Think about the classic tricks which you won't be able to do any more. Coin in bottle. Linking Rings. Cups and Balls, Swallowing razor blades etc; in fact some them you can't do even now. There are those who argue that for a mentalist to be successful the public should think that there really mighr--just might--be something in this mindreading stuff. Well, that notion is finished now. Mentalists will never be able to convince people that they are the real thing because all the public has to do is look up their secrets on You Tube.

It really has to stop so that in twenty years time Jack will still be able to enjoy his little hobby.

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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby Tom Moore » June 23rd, 2018, 7:25 am

Before you go any further you should familiarise yourself with the “Streisand effect” and also the letters pages of any major magic magazine from 100 years ago....
"Ingenious" - Ben Brantley: New York Times

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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby Jack Shalom » June 23rd, 2018, 7:26 am

Mark, absolutely, I do not have the same at stake as yourself; and in no way do I mean to trivialize your concern, only to focus your efforts. This horse has left the gate long ago, and you are not the first to point it out or attempt to change it. What it may mean to the professional is perhaps a re-tooling of ways of doing business. See what Whit Haydn has been doing at his shows. He encourages internet and cellphone use during his performances. It seems counter-intuitive and yet...

Magic will outlive both of us (which I admit at this point in my life is a pretty low bar :) )

In any event, I wish you good luck on your efforts. It's certainly better to be trying something than nothing.

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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby performer » June 23rd, 2018, 7:33 am

It has nothing to do with being professional. In fact professionals always have a way around these things. It is an issue for amateurs too. Magic to me is an ART form even if it isn't to anyone else. The secrets need to be protected so its effectiveness will not be diluted or even in the long run destroyed. What I don't understand is how everyone goes nuts over television exposure which is not that harmful but gives up where the mighty internet is concerned.

I suppose this won't help my case much for obvious reasons but even Adolf Hitler managed to bring in legislation banning the secrets of magic being published in German newspapers. He got everything else wrong but at least he got this one thing right.

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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby performer » June 23rd, 2018, 7:38 am

Tom Moore wrote:Before you go any further you should familiarise yourself with the “Streisand effect” and also the letters pages of any major magic magazine from 100 years ago....


I don't give a stuff about 100 years ago. Or even ten years ago. As I have already stated I don't believe exposure did that much damage in the past. However, I am talking about NOW!

I expected all this defeatism from magicians. Well, when I am dead and gone in twenty years magic will be on the way out too. And you will remember I predicted it. And it will serve you all right for not looking after it.

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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby Tom Moore » June 23rd, 2018, 8:29 am

You should worry about what happened 100 years ago - tricks were exposed in national newspapers where they were viewed by millions more people than view all youtube exposure videos yet magic survived.

99% of the exposure on YouTube is off the shelf routines with off the shelf props; if that’s what you use as a magician then you’re your own worst enemy. Make the magic your own and it’s instantly youtube exposure proof.

And please, before saying another work mark read up on Streisand Effect ‘cause that’s exactly what you’re proposing....
"Ingenious" - Ben Brantley: New York Times

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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby I.M. Magician » June 23rd, 2018, 9:11 am

I had an annoying “I know how it’s done because I saw it on youtube” moment about ten years ago. I was performing for a group of teenagers and one of them yelled that out. Another yelled out to him, “No you don’t” and that was the end of that.

Unfortunately, I doubt that we can control the YouTube exposure mess by any means.

If I recall correctly, in the 1940’s, Dave Robbins started a magazine entitled MAGIC IS FUN which ended up being sold at newsstands and the magic community was furious. I believe I saw it addressed in an issue of Conjurers’ Magazine. Seven issues were published and it ended for whatever reason.

There is enough population on this planet so there will always be plenty of people we will be able to fool with our magic. Svengali decks have been sold all over the place for many years and you can still fool an audience with one of those.

So...don’t worry, magic won’t cease to amaze.

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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby performer » June 23rd, 2018, 10:04 am

Magic is already ceasing to amaze because too many people know how it is done. Including some of the members of this very forum. No disrespect to them of course but I do not regard them as magicians. Merely laymen who know how the tricks are done. I am well aware of the Streisand effect but I am also well aware of the fact that it dies down eventually and little harm is done. However, it is worth the risk if it is going to stop the permanance of this problem. And it isn't just "off the shelf" props that are exposed. Classic tricks of magic are. And secrets of sleight of hand which should remain secret.

The analogy of millions of people reading newspapers is not the same at all. Magic has always been protected from exposure because laymen forget what they read a week later. Newspapers get thrown in the trash. And magazines gather dust. And TV exposures are soon forgotten. But You Tube doesn't.

As for the svengali deck that has nothing whatsoever to do with magic. The deck doesn't belong to magicians. They don't deserve the deck anyway since they have no idea how to use it properly. We grafters stole it years ago so it doesn't count. And plenty of people know how it is done anyway so that argument falls flat.

You never try to persuade a building or a company. All you need is one person. That person is Susan Wojcicki. Of course when she reads the spineless twaddle here she will think, "Well, if even the magicians don't care then why should I?"

The ones who will destroy magic in the end will be the magicians themselves. First by their incompetence and second for their lack of interest in protecting their own art.

Why do you all get excited about the masked magician but are afraid or disinterested of tackling a more pernicious problem? How come nobody else seems to give a damn? Why the hell should it be left to me--only one person-who can only do so much? I will tell you why. Magic is a mere diversion and hobby for you. You have no motivation to defend it.

It is not part of your soul.

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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby I.M. Magician » June 23rd, 2018, 10:18 am

Exposure of the secrets of magic does bother me and I do wish it would stop. I am just being realistic.

It would be great if Susan does something about it. For that to happen, she would need a connection which makes her want to do something about it. If she had that connection, she would have already done something. No?

By the way, you are making assumptions about us which you don’t know to be true. That in no ways helps your cause. All it does is insult us which I find unfortunate.

Perhaps you are getting carried away...

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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby Tom Moore » June 23rd, 2018, 10:36 am

You should probably check you ego in at the door here Mark - I speak as someone who earns 100% of his income from magic, also employs 4 full time staff and several dozen casual staff all from magic money so I’d hazard that I and many other members in here have considerably more to loose from exposure than you do.

YouTube doesn’t seem to have a problem putting handymen, plumbers, electricians, bakers, film reviewers, greetings card makers or any of the hundreds of other professionals who’s “trade secrets” are exposed in YouTube videos out of work so we can be pretty sure that they won’t have any ethical concerns about putting magicians out of work (even though they are not) and by going on a tirade now or launching a campaign all you’re actually going to do is drive more members of the public to watch exposure videos, not less. That’s not an opinion; it’s a cold hard fact that has been proven time and again.
"Ingenious" - Ben Brantley: New York Times

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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby performer » June 23rd, 2018, 10:37 am

I.M. Magician wrote:Exposure of the secrets of magic does bother me and I do wish it would stop. I am just being realistic.

It would be great if Susan does something about it. For that to happen, she would need a connection which makes her want to do something about it. If she had that connection, she would have already done something. No?

By the way, you are making assumptions about us which you don’t know to be true. That in no ways helps your cause. All it does is insult us which I find unfortunate.

Perhaps you are getting carried away...



Very well, I will withdraw the insult. I will now assume you are all magicians. Now since you are all magicians what are you all going to do about it? Why should I be the one who does all the work? Hundreds of letters went to the producers of the Masked Magician. I bet not even one went to You Tube. I bet nothing went out from the Magic Circle, the SAM or the IBM. You are all bloody useless. Or more likely none of you particularly care. Or you all give in too easily.

Anyway, I have just sent her a private message on Facebook.

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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby I.M. Magician » June 23rd, 2018, 10:46 am

In an attempt to lighten up this thread, I have attached a link here for you to enjoy.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/animals ... vi-AAz0OSG

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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby performer » June 23rd, 2018, 10:48 am

Tom Moore wrote:You should probably check you ego in at the door here Mark - I speak as someone who earns 100% of his income from magic, also employs 4 full time staff and several dozen casual staff all from magic money so I’d hazard that I and many other members in here have considerably more to loose from exposure than you do.

YouTube doesn’t seem to have a problem putting handymen, plumbers, electricians, bakers, film reviewers, greetings card makers or any of the hundreds of other professionals who’s “trade secrets” are exposed in YouTube videos out of work so we can be pretty sure that they won’t have any ethical concerns about putting magicians out of work (even though they are not) and by going on a tirade now or launching a campaign all you’re actually going to do is drive more members of the public to watch exposure videos, not less. That’s not an opinion; it’s a cold hard fact that has been proven time and again.


I rather think, old chap, that YOUR ego is far bigger than mine with regard to this. Your very first paragraph is full of how wonderful you are and how much money you are making. Well, I am not bloody interested. This is NOT about money. It is about ART. I am NOT concerned about how much I have to lose by exposure. I will be dead soon anyway. No. I am concerned about how much the ART will lose by exposure. It is already losing a hell of a lot with all the useless so called "magicians" out there most of whom couldn't make the contents of an empty box disappear. The whole art of magic is plagued by incompetence and trivialisation. Exposure is just another nail in the coffin.

And nobody cares. If that is the case then "magicians" will deserve all they get.

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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby performer » June 23rd, 2018, 10:49 am

I.M. Magician wrote:In an attempt to lighten up this thread, I have attached a link here for you to enjoy.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/animals ... vi-AAz0OSG


I have never enjoyed myself once in my entire life and I have no intention of starting now.

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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby MagicbyAlfred » June 23rd, 2018, 11:42 am

I congratulate Performer on his efforts and his sincere and passionate desire to do something about this issue. Very well-written letter, by the way! The exposure of secrets on YouTube is not the same as the posting of handyman and plumber and other such videos. No comparison at all. Magic stands as unique as an art, and cannot be compared to those trades. The secret is the "air in the ballon" of magic, as Performer correctly pointed out. What is the lady's address, I'd be happy to drop her a line...

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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby Tom Moore » June 23rd, 2018, 12:15 pm

YouTube’s entire business is driving people to their website to watch the adverts that surround the videos they host; that is their reason for existing. The CEO has a legal obligation to promote and encourage the business’s actual business - ie it is her job to do anything she can (legally) to get people watching videos/adverts on the site.
If you think writing a letter asking her to reduce the number of videos on the site and reduce the number of viewers they have for their adverts (this putting her in breach of the contract of employment she has) will work then you are..... misguided. Of course calling her attention to something which could be controversial (and thus drive even more people to view the videos you don’t like) definitely couldn’t backfire by highlighting an easy way they could get millions more viewers....

The comparison of magic secrets to plumbers secrets as PROFESSIONS is entirely valid - people hire plumbers for lots of jobs because they don’t know how to fix a leaky pipe, a dripping tap, connect in a washing machine and that ignorance is what generates lots of work for professional plumbers. Once people watch the tutorial videos on how easy it is to do simple plumbing tasks they do them themselves thus denying professional plumbers employment. It’s EXACTLY the same problem the Mark has highlighted with people not wanting to employ/enjoy magicians because they know how to do it themselves.

Magic has been exposed for 1000 years, magicians always claim that this exposure will kill the industry within a generation and they are always wrong. The answer to exposure is to create unique routines, personal performances, magical experiences that audiences CANNOT simply YouTube; doing this simple step will take away all the power of the exposers, will make better more healthy magic scene and is something that every single person on this board could do today themselves rather than follow well trodden paths that have never worked before.
"Ingenious" - Ben Brantley: New York Times

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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby performer » June 23rd, 2018, 1:02 pm

In other words Thomas is not on the side of magic. It almost sounds as if he has an agenda and some kind of self interest in the matter. Maybe he makes money out of You Tube or has some personal business affiliation with them. I have a suspicious mind. I smell a rat and a personal connection here. He is giving Susan a perfect excuse not to do anything about this issue. If I were her, reading his tripe I would think, "Ah, even the magicians don't seem to care so why should I?"

Who said a word about reducing the videos? Keep all the videos except the ones who expose magic. Or as Thomas says dealing with this fuss will INCREASE the video viewership. I don't care about that. I want the end result.

He keeps talking in "industry" terms. Or "professional" terms. I am not talking about "industry" or professional magicians. I am talking about the art of magic. I personally have NEVER complained about exposure ruining magic. I have already explained that I don't give a stuff about that kind of exposure. I AM however complaining that You Tube will eventually ruin it. It is all very well for terrible Thomas to chatter about creating unique routines and "magical experiences" and all that waffle and baloney. I was doing magic when he was in his pram so I am well aware of how to go about performing. I need no further education on the matter. He on the other hand doesn't seem to know the first rule of magic. NEVER TELL HOW A TRICK IS DONE.

Perhaps he will change his mind when some teenager exposes all HIS designs for illusions on You Tube.

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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby performer » June 23rd, 2018, 1:03 pm

MagicbyAlfred wrote:I congratulate Performer on his efforts and his sincere and passionate desire to do something about this issue. Very well-written letter, by the way! The exposure of secrets on YouTube is not the same as the posting of handyman and plumber and other such videos. No comparison at all. Magic stands as unique as an art, and cannot be compared to those trades. The secret is the "air in the ballon" of magic, as Performer correctly pointed out. What is the lady's address, I'd be happy to drop her a line...


Her address is on my letter right at the top. By all means write to her. The more the merrier. I can't do this alone.

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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby MagicbyAlfred » June 23rd, 2018, 1:51 pm

Tom Moore wrote:YouTube’s entire business is driving people to their website to watch the adverts that surround the videos they host; that is their reason for existing. The CEO has a legal obligation to promote and encourage the business’s actual business - ie it is her job to do anything she can (legally) to get people watching videos/adverts on the site.
If you think writing a letter asking her to reduce the number of videos on the site and reduce the number of viewers they have for their adverts (this putting her in breach of the contract of employment she has) will work then you are..... misguided. Of course calling her attention to something which could be controversial (and thus drive even more people to view the videos you don’t like) definitely couldn’t backfire by highlighting an easy way they could get millions more viewers....

The comparison of magic secrets to plumbers secrets as PROFESSIONS is entirely valid - people hire plumbers for lots of jobs because they don’t know how to fix a leaky pipe, a dripping tap, connect in a washing machine and that ignorance is what generates lots of work for professional plumbers. Once people watch the tutorial videos on how easy it is to do simple plumbing tasks they do them themselves thus denying professional plumbers employment. It’s EXACTLY the same problem the Mark has highlighted with people not wanting to employ/enjoy magicians because they know how to do it themselves.

Magic has been exposed for 1000 years, magicians always claim that this exposure will kill the industry within a generation and they are always wrong. The answer to exposure is to create unique routines, personal performances, magical experiences that audiences CANNOT simply YouTube; doing this simple step will take away all the power of the exposers, will make better more healthy magic scene and is something that every single person on this board could do today themselves rather than follow well trodden paths that have never worked before.


Have you read, do you have, or can you provide a copy of her "contract of employment"? Does she also have a legal obligation to allow the posting of porn because it'll get more viewers?

As to Plumbers, and the like, I just don't see the comparison here - or are you referring to the tiny plunger trick?

I'm just going to have to respectfully disagree with your points.

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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby Edward Pungot » June 23rd, 2018, 2:24 pm

Your efforts are misguided.
Just do great magic.
It's good to unplug every now and then.
Go outside and take a brisk walk in and around nature or along the beach.
Expend your limited time and energy on creating great magic. Rewire that negativity into something positive. Evolve.

Edward Pungot
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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby Edward Pungot » June 23rd, 2018, 2:36 pm


Tom Moore
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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby Tom Moore » June 23rd, 2018, 2:42 pm

Perhaps he will change his mind when some teenager exposes all HIS designs for illusions on You Tube.


....and thus you prove my point. I’m moderately successful with 27yrs in this business and yet my stuff isn’t routinely exposed on YouTube precisely because I focus on creating unique, different and personal magic sequences. I quite deliberately don’t get the level of market saturation that enables exposure to take place. On the rare occasion it does happen I’m upset but ultimately not worried precisely because everything is so unique and bespoke that only one or two performers are impacted not the thousands of performers who get impacted when an off the shelf product in an off the shelf routine they are all using is exposed.

I’m literally putting my money where my mouth is, practicing what I preach and it is demonstrably working.
"Ingenious" - Ben Brantley: New York Times

thomasmoorecreative

I.M. Magician
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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby I.M. Magician » June 23rd, 2018, 3:33 pm

Um...excuse me...but has anyone taken a moment out of their busy arguing schedule to take a looksee at that link I placed above with a very delightful magic performance for that wonderful doggie yet? Anyone?

It will warm the cockles of your heart... :D

performer
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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby performer » June 23rd, 2018, 4:45 pm

Edward Pungot wrote:Your efforts are misguided.
Just do great magic.
It's good to unplug every now and then.
Go outside and take a brisk walk in and around nature or along the beach.
Expend your limited time and energy on creating great magic. Rewire that negativity into something positive. Evolve.


I already do create great magic. How about you? Oh never mind I know the answer.........
As for my negativity I am positive that my negativity is a positive thing.

performer
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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby performer » June 23rd, 2018, 4:52 pm

Tom Moore wrote:
Perhaps he will change his mind when some teenager exposes all HIS designs for illusions on You Tube.


....and thus you prove my point. I’m moderately successful with 27yrs in this business and yet my stuff isn’t routinely exposed on YouTube precisely because I focus on creating unique, different and personal magic sequences. I quite deliberately don’t get the level of market saturation that enables exposure to take place. On the rare occasion it does happen I’m upset but ultimately not worried precisely because everything is so unique and bespoke that only one or two performers are impacted not the thousands of performers who get impacted when an off the shelf product in an off the shelf routine they are all using is exposed.

I’m literally putting my money where my mouth is, practicing what I preach and it is demonstrably working.


Of course your stuff is not exposed on you tube because nobody actually knows about it. However, even if they do it is beside the point. Nobody exposes my stuff either. I accept that individual magicians can protect themselves from this you tube exposure plague. I am talking about the art of magic as a whole. Some of the greatest tricks ever invented, (that you seem to look down on because they are "off the shelf") have been exposed. And the brilliant creators of magic can't be too happy when their work is exposed to the masses.

I am astonished at the fact that few of you seem to even care. That tells me what kind of magicians you are.

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Gordon Meyer
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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby Gordon Meyer » June 23rd, 2018, 4:53 pm

You're fooling yourself if you think that the CEO will ever see your long letter, or if you think she would care one bit if she did. She has a legal responsibility to further Google's business model (Google owns YouTube) and it has nothing to do with hiding legal information from users. A better, but ultimately equally ineffective, approach would be to post false explanations to poison the stew. (ala Dunninger's Complete Encyclopedia of Magic.)

MagicbyAlfred
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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby MagicbyAlfred » June 23rd, 2018, 5:03 pm

I.M. Magician wrote:Um...excuse me...but has anyone taken a moment out of their busy arguing schedule to take a looksee at that link I placed above with a very delightful magic performance for that wonderful doggie yet? Anyone?

It will warm the cockles of your heart... :D


Yes, it's fabulous! Beautiful animal! And it did warm the cocker spaniels of my heart.

But now I understand the doggie has posted a video on YouTube, revealing how the trick is done.

Bill Duncan
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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby Bill Duncan » June 23rd, 2018, 5:12 pm

While it would be lovely if your letter had any impact at all Mark, I suspect it won't. Fingers crossed though. I hope you'll share any response you get, even if it's just a canned "thank you for writing us..." sort of reply. It would be nice to think someone reads the emails.

I do think there are a few factors we should keep in mind so as to not spend all our days thinking the sky is falling.

1. Knowing how a great magician does what they do doesn't prevent me from wanting to see them (or again).
2. Knowing that R2-D2 is really Kenny Baker in a trashcan doesn't make people love Star Wars any less.
3. Fear of audience members Googling how their tricks are done might actually lead to better construction, and new plots (or at least new presentations).

performer
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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby performer » June 23rd, 2018, 7:08 pm

First it wasn't an email. It was a snail mail letter on a handwritten envelope. Those do tend to get through. An old direct mail trick. Secondly, she WILL see it sooner or later since I am posting it here, there and everywhere including her Facebook page if necessary. I think i mentioned that I once sold carbon paper to offices. Or should I say tried to sell it since I was pretty useless at it. However, I have always remembered what the sales manager said, "Remember you are not selling to a building or a company-- you are selling to a person"

Susan is a person with 5 children. Kids love magic. She is very interested in creative projects. There is nothing more creative than magic. That is why I am going to persist in making my case to her despite the fact that you have all seriously weakened it by not seeming to particularly care. I will persist until I get an answer even if that answer is no which it probably will be if she reads the guff on here.

Years ago magicians were jumping up and down over the Masked Magician, writing letters to Fox TV and going nuts over something relatively unimportant. But yet You Tube which does ten times the damage that the Masked Magician ever did none of you seem to care about. I bet if Orson Welles was around he would care. I suggest some of you read that link to his wise words. Here they are again:
http://www.wellesnet.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=308

Here is a tiny excerpt:

"At the outset it should be explained that the author of these prefatory sentiments is one of that dwindling and gloomy body of cranks who wish magic should have been kept a mystery. In his view magic's worst enemies are that spreading section in any audience who know how the trick is done. It should be granted that that a puzzle solved before it is shown is just about as publicly attractive as an unmade bed. A real magician's task, it seems clear, is to abolish the solution, the possibility of any solution in the minds of those he seeks to amuse. And this is certain. He'll fail to amuse if he doesn't amaze"

MagicbyAlfred
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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby MagicbyAlfred » June 23rd, 2018, 7:47 pm

"...you have all seriously weakened it by not seeming to particularly care."

Not all, my good friend.

performer
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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby performer » June 23rd, 2018, 9:49 pm

MagicbyAlfred wrote:"...you have all seriously weakened it by not seeming to particularly care."

Not all, my good friend.


So why do you care and they don't? I suppose the obvious answer is that magic is not as important to them as it is to us.

Edward Pungot
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Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby Edward Pungot » June 23rd, 2018, 10:02 pm

If you want results, you need to go to headquarters and pull a Malini. Hand deliver the letter and bite off a button.

performer
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Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby performer » June 23rd, 2018, 10:26 pm

The Headquarters are in America. A very odd place where people are dreadfully excitable. Biting buttons could end up with too many bullets flying about for my liking.

MagicbyAlfred
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Location: Myrtle Beach, SC

Re: You Tube exposure.

Postby MagicbyAlfred » June 23rd, 2018, 10:44 pm

performer wrote:
MagicbyAlfred wrote:"...you have all seriously weakened it by not seeming to particularly care."

Not all, my good friend.


So why do you care and they don't? I suppose the obvious answer is that magic is not as important to them as it is to us.


I care because I love magic. I have from the time my Mom took me to the magic store in Brooklyn at age 6 and I picked up my first tricks - the Magic Milk Pitcher and an Egg Bag. I was giving shows at family gatherings within 6 months and secretly reading Houdini on Magic with a flashlight under the covers when I should have been asleep. Six decades later I still feel the same.


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