New release of Cervon Notebooks

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I.M. Magician
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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby I.M. Magician » June 6th, 2016, 5:13 pm

The biggest problem is the lack of information being provided. If they offered full disclosure concerning these books, they would be better off. At least people would know what's going on here.

The huge increase in the price of these books is also a problem. First a bargain, then not do much. Maybe compared to the original price but more than double what they were a few months ago is disturbing.

By the way, what's so great about these books? I am not being rude but curious. Aren't they one person's personal notes?

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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby Roger M. » June 6th, 2016, 5:17 pm

"They've" already discovered a box with 20 more sets at least 3 or 4 times already!

But you're absolutely right ... the proof will be in seeing exactly what happens when the "in stock" date is hit in the many online magic stores advertising the Castle Notebooks begin to sell either a brand new edition of a few thousand books, or this now legendary box of 20 more previously undiscovered First Edition sets that were discovered at noon today, beside the mayonnaise jar on Funk and Wagnalls porch.

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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby I.M. Magician » June 6th, 2016, 5:25 pm

I always thought that the purpose of saving a box of something is to do better with them in the future. They are selling them for less!

They are ticking off the original buyers who paid a pretty penny and tampering with ethics. Correct?

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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby John LeBlanc » June 6th, 2016, 5:33 pm

I'm missing volume 5, so I'm looking forward to an opportunity to complete my set.

John

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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 6th, 2016, 6:56 pm

With a dearth of information about why this is happening, it would likely make prior customers who paid $1000 for the set unhappy.
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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby AJM » June 6th, 2016, 7:15 pm

The allure of these mythical notebooks was based purely on the fact there was only one set and, as such, the contents became the stuff of legend.

Then they were released to only those who had the financial wherewithal to obtain a copy of the forbidden knowledge.

And, lo, the purchasers coveted and procured Volume 1 and.....to be honest, having seen the contents, I'm not entirely sure why anyone would have ponied up for the other 4.

But each to their own in my view - my own preference is to read the printed page with proper spelling as opposed to deciphering someone else's poor handwriting (I have enough trouble with my own thank you very much).

I can appreciate the strong feelings of those who purchased their sets at the outset and agree that a limited edition should be just that - in my view, though, these books aren't worth the cheaper price either.

If you don't have them already, my recommendation would be to invest your magic dollars elsewhere.

Cheers

Andrew
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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby erdnasephile » June 6th, 2016, 8:47 pm

Castle Notebook sets are now sold out on the Vanishing, Inc site.

(They still show up on the site, but if you try to add them to the cart: nada)

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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby Roger M. » June 6th, 2016, 9:57 pm

... and Murphy's has magically removed them from its website as well.

Maybe they keep trying to sneak this presumed "extra" edition into existence, but shy away when they get called out on it :lol:

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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby BobLynn » June 7th, 2016, 3:58 pm

I just spoke with Patrick at Murphy's.

He confirmed that they only purchased the 26 "Alphabet" sets from Louis at L&L and have no other source.

He confirmed that they have sold all the books, except for one set. Patrick said that those five books have not been advertised and will be sold AS A SET for a fee commensurate with being the last one available.

I asked Patrick about the "June 26th release date" and he had no idea what I was talking about. He said it has nothing to do with Murphy's because he has sold and shipped all the books except for the one set that hasn't been advertised.

If you click on Vanishing Inc's shopping cart for the books, you will see that they are out of stock and not available. Call them and they will confirm they have none available.


This whole situation was created by Louis's health problems, problems which cause Louis to make bad decisions. It is affecting him in so many ways it just makes me cry.

Regardless, the fact is that he sold the 26 sets that were supposed to be held for the 10th anniversary of Bruce's death. The really horrible part of it, beyond the impact all this bull hocky noise is having on Linda Cervon, is that Louis sold the lot to Murphy's for about a tenth of Linda and I offered him for the books just weeks before. I did not mistype that, it really was about 10%.

Furthermore, if he had waited just a few more months and stuck to the plan of the 10 year memorial then he would have made even more than Linda offered him.

Louis is one of the truly good guys. That's why it's such a very sad thing when disease robs someone that is as good a guy as Louis is of his ability to make good decisions and eventually will rob him of his life.


Since a few of you can't seem to get and keep the facts straight lets repeat some things. These are quotes from my previous posts:
-------------
A group of 26 sets were put aside by Linda & L&L for use after the tenth anniversary of Bruce's death that are known as the "Alphabet Series". They were identified by a letter between A & Z. This group of 26 sets was intended to be sold as a special edition that was to have a selected group of memorabilia that included decks, photos, tricks, etc. as a value added.

I spoke with Linda minutes ago and with Louis an hour ago and I can state that they said there are no other sets in existence beyond what I have enumerated here.
------------

Now to get down to the situation at hand.

Louis made the decision to sell the 26 sets that were to be released by L&L and the estate at this time. I know his reasons, but they are not relevant here. He made the decision to sell the group of 26 sets to Murphy's Magic.
------------------

You're right, they are advertising them at $200.
Ten thousand people could advertise them at $200. That doesn't mean they can deliver.
There were only 26 sets available. Regardless of advertised price, the 27th buyer will get NOTHING!
-----------------

Louis sold the 26 complete sets, the sets that are known as the "Alphabet series" to Murphy. See my post...

I do wish that Louis could have stuck to the plan of marketing them slowly after the tenth anniversary of Bruce's death, but Louis has other responsibilities and priorities to satisfy so they were sold as a lot. Regardless, there are still only 26 sets of them any way you cut it.

When the 26 sets are gone, they are gone.
Poof!
Kaput!
Zilch!
Nada
----------------------

Brad Jeffers got it right when he wrote all the way back in MARCH:

Postby Brad Jeffers » 03/01/16 03:51 PM

I asked the guys at Vanishing Inc. about this and got this reply ...

"Hello,
I am afraid that these are now permanently out of stock. Sorry about that.
In answer to your question, it was all 5 for $200.
Best wishes,
George"

So it seems that they are permanently out of stock before they ever were in stock.
--------------------------------------
---------------------------------------

I sincerely hope you all have something better to think about from now on. Next time I recommend you spend the time practicing. It will improve both your mind and your magic. I certainly would rather have been practicing rather than handling this manure.
Bob

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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby BobLynn » June 7th, 2016, 4:16 pm

Roger M. wrote:... and Murphy's has magically removed them from its website as well.

Maybe they keep trying to sneak this presumed "extra" edition into existence, but shy away when they get called out on it :lol:



Roger,

Knock it off. You are a gossip.

THERE IS NO "NEW" OR "OTHER" EDITION.

Linda will not give her permission as long as she lives as she sticks to her word.

If you want to put out an edition of your own you will be free to do so when the copyright expires in just 50 years after she leaves this life.

If she follows the family pattern, that will allow you to put it out somewhere in about 70-80 years.

In the mean time you are being way less than kind to Bruce's widow.

Aren't you better than that?

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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 7th, 2016, 4:25 pm

There's a lot of wonderful material in these books. It's not easy to extract, which is why few people are talking about them.
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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby BobLynn » June 7th, 2016, 4:32 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:There's a lot of wonderful material in these books. It's not easy to extract, which is why few people are talking about them.



Richard,

You have summed it up in a true minimum of words.

Thank you!

The material is very difficult to extract. I know because I'm not making much headway with it.

Bob

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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby Roger M. » June 7th, 2016, 4:34 pm

BobLynn wrote:
Roger M. wrote:... and Murphy's has magically removed them from its website as well.

Maybe they keep trying to sneak this presumed "extra" edition into existence, but shy away when they get called out on it :lol:



Roger,

Knock it off. You are a gossip.

THERE IS NO "NEW" OR "OTHER" EDITION.

Linda will not give her permission as long as she lives as she sticks to her word.

If you want to put out an edition of your own you will be free to do so when the copyright expires in just 50 years after she leaves this life.

If she follows the family pattern, that will allow you to put it out somewhere in about 70-80 years.

In the mean time you are being way less than kind to Bruce's widow.

Aren't you better than that?


Oh shut up Bob, I'll post as the moderators see fit to permit me to post ... and believe me when I say that I don't give a crap about what you think of my posts, or what I choose to write about.

This is a forum, and I participate in it ... it's really no more devious or malicious than that - which is to say "not at all".

I'm sure you're a fantastic friend to Linda, and I don't doubt for a second that you feel bad for Louis health problems ... but please don't confuse that with me thinking for one second that I'll consider changing what I post about as a result of your somewhat emotional demands here on the forum.
There are plenty of forum participants posting to this thread, finding out new and exciting things, and having a good time doing so.

Have a nice day ... really.

(BTW, I have absolutely no need to have the last word ... so post away, the thread is yours).

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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 7th, 2016, 4:43 pm

Gentlemen, let's please let the subject rest. There are no more books available for sale, so that really ends the subject.
I cannot imagine that any more books were printed beyond the original 1,000--and that's my expert opinion.
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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby BobLynn » June 7th, 2016, 4:46 pm

Richard,

If you would lock the topic that might be best.

Thank you.

Bob

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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 7th, 2016, 5:09 pm

If everyone behaves then there's no need to lock the topic.
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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby PapaG » June 7th, 2016, 5:40 pm

If there are no issues of bad faith, why is this new, let's call it 'trove'... being sold for half the original asking price?

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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby Brad Henderson » June 7th, 2016, 6:31 pm

Bob,

I think your defensiveness and protectiveness have undermined your intention. i know Linda only casually through Facebook and it never crossed my mind that this was a money grab on her part. I don't think that occured to many here either.

HOWEVER there is a long history of which you may not be aware of L and L discovering once allegedly sold out boxes and re-releasing items at prices less than many had already paid.

The complaints made by many here are more than reaaonable and well founded.

I think you managed to take things way too personally and only muddied the waters more than clearing them.

I say this to you because I like Linda (from what little I know) and despite what I am sure are noble intentions, you aren't really helping your case.

I think the take away that matters most is that this decision was made without Linda and is an act solely on the part of l and l productions.

see - how easy was that?

everything else is just ego and peacocking as far as I can tell. Well intentioned though it may be.

for example - suggesting RK close the thread makes you seem petty, controlling, and as if you have something to hide.

not suggesting any of that is true, but your choices are getting in the way of communicating Linda's honesty and integrity.

for what it's worth.

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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby BobLynn » June 7th, 2016, 8:57 pm

Brad,

The point is, like Richard said.

Let's be done with it.

My best,

Bob

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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby Bill Mullins » June 7th, 2016, 9:16 pm

The original ads say "Just 500 Copies Will Be Sold!" (see Genii Jan 2008 p3). If the intention all along was to sell 500 copies, and then sell 26 more "alphabet" sets, then that is just a little hinky. Not the worst thing that's ever been done selling magic, not by far, but it is a little bit dishonest. (Of course, if there were only 474 numbered sets, then no problem).

BobLynn wrote: If you want to put out an edition of your own you will be free to do so when the copyright expires in just 50 years after she leaves this life.


Copyright lasts for the life of the author plus 70 years, not life of the author's wife plus 50 years.

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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 7th, 2016, 9:22 pm

Publishers always do over runs for special copies, like "deluxe" editions and publisher's comp editions. My guess (and it's just a guess but it is the common practice), is that there were 500 numbered sets, plus a lettered set of 26 (publisher comp copies), as well as perhaps another 26 labelled "AA," "BB," etc. to be given away.

Printers always overrun in their printing, and the publisher will buy these copies from the printer in case he has to replace damaged or lost copies. Some of these overrun copies will never get numbered or lettered.
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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby Ted M » June 7th, 2016, 10:35 pm

So what has actually happened with these 26 lettered sets?

A few appear to have been ordered in March, and at least one of those orders (Richard's) was fulfilled. Presumably a few other sets got sold in March as well? Evidently the ads were pulled not due to selling out, but due to the uproar, yes?

So now we have a new round of ads/listings, and presumably some new orders have been placed. The new listings are now being pulled. Is this because enough orders were placed to exhaust the supply, or because of the new uproar?

Open questions:

1) Will these latest orders be fulfilled?
2) Will there again be supply remaining?
3) Will we sit back and watch this repeat again in three months?

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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 8th, 2016, 1:13 am

It's a very big fuss over 26 sets of books. So few people will actually get to purchase them (beyond those who already have).
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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby Brad Jeffers » June 8th, 2016, 6:04 am

Richard, What is the letter of the set that you have?

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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby Leo Garet » June 8th, 2016, 10:00 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:It's a very big fuss over 26 sets of books. So few people will actually get to purchase them (beyond those who already have).

True enough, but people do like to make a fuss. Magicians being people (generally speaking) are seriously prone to fuss-making. It sometimes makes life interesting and often provides humour.

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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 8th, 2016, 10:33 am

I think (not having the book directly in front of me) that my letter is K.

And you, Leo, are one of the people who like to make a fuss. Do you own these books?
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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby Brad Henderson » June 8th, 2016, 11:11 am

I own these books - as I did the deluxe chronicles and many other re released/rediscovered products - and I feel Louis is screwing over the people who supported him over many years.

doesn't matter if it's one set or 100 - in magic infornation has value and a good part of that value is its exclusivity. we
paid a lot of money for somewhat exclusive access to information and now that has been devalued by Louis.

he has done this again and again.

it is unacceptable

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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 8th, 2016, 1:38 pm

While I haven't see Louis in many years, I know what Parkinson's Disease can do (my stepmother had it). He's about 9 years into it. I would have a little compassion for what was apparently a mistake.
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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby Roger M. » June 8th, 2016, 2:11 pm

I think everybody who posts here would have 100% compassion for anybody with Parkinson's, and would offer up that complete and utter compassion unreservedly.

But here are a great many provisions that could be put in place, and indeed that should be put in place in those business related decisions needing to be made when the principal suffers from a major debilitating illness.

These precautions and provisions are, in the case of something like we're talking about in this thread, related to providing ongoing intent to fulfill promises made by the business or the business owner in the "good years", and which by extension protect the investments made by honest and loyal customers who took the said business owner at their word when they say something like "only 500 sets will be printed".

I apologize in advance if this is seen as a comment anything other than what it's intended as, but all I've seen from the parties who have chosen to make a statement is that the ongoing debacle is everybody else's fault but their own, and that the original customers of the set who are concerned are everything from whiners to gossips.

How about the major players in this affair dig a little deeper and offer up some fricking integrity instead of the backhanded lip service we've been getting to date.

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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 8th, 2016, 3:55 pm

I think that generally the phrase use is "Only xx sets will be sold." This covers the extra copies given away as comps, lettered sets, etc.
We are not involved in the internal affairs of L&L publishing. We do not know exactly who is making which decisions.

All we know is the result. As I recall, the first volume or two of these notebooks sold out immediately, but subsequent volumes did not, and were being offered at discounts by certain dealers at magic conventions (sales not publicized).

I would never have published "The Castle Notebooks" in that format. It alienates the reader. And the high price only made that worse. The content is definitely there in my opinion, but it needed to be edited, and typeset, so it was easier to manage and learn from. (I won't even get into the questionable way the tricks are credited by Cervon, with initials added to them years later; some have no initials; others (I've been told my someone who has seen the originals) seemingly had the original initials erased and replaced. There really is no concrete and certain way to tell (without any dispute) which of many of the items belong to Cervon, Vernon, and Jennings. Charging $1000 for what should have been an edited and typeset two-volume set is not something I would have done.

You can't have dead stock sit around for years. L&L has no new product: all it is doing is getting rid of everything it has done in the past (sometimes in new formats, such as eBooks).

I'm having a Buy 1 Get 1 Free Book Sale right now. Many of the titles offered are very good, but as books got reprinted while the market was simultaneously contracting, sometimes you end up with more stock that you can sell. And I pay both rent and insurance every month on every single book in stock. You have to get rid of dead stock--that's how publishers do business. I feel that my type of sale is a fair way to do that. No one is getting any recently-printed book for free. Most of the titles are decades old.
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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby Ian Kendall » June 8th, 2016, 6:28 pm

Somewhat tangentially relevant; a couple of years ago, when the books were fresh, I remember reading about a closed group of people who were typing out the notebooks. The idea was that you proved that you owned the books, and typed up a few of the routines, adding to the collection. That work entitled you to download the other descriptions.

It fell off the radar shortly after that, as I recall. Either this was because it was very closed, or they ran into some copyright problem or another. I remember thinking at the time that it was a good idea.

I would have to say that the format is the main reason I have not bothered to delve into the books in detail.

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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby Bill Marquardt » June 8th, 2016, 8:31 pm

If someone really, really wants a set:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bruce-Cervon-Ca ... 2138417979

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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby Joneseymagic » June 9th, 2016, 9:17 am

Richard Kaufman said:

"There's a lot of wonderful material in these books. It's not easy to extract, which is why few people are talking about them"

Richard - you once said on this board that most of the good stuff is in vol 1. Have you revised your opinion?

I purchased vols 1-3 because I was only interested in the Vernon material. Would you (or indeed, any purchaser) recommend I buy vols 4 & 5?

Best!

Dave

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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby Leo Garet » June 9th, 2016, 9:48 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:I think (not having the book directly in front of me) that my letter is K.

And you, Leo, are one of the people who like to make a fuss. Do you own these books?


Well, thankyou Mister Kaufman for that clear cut defamation. What a vicious response to a perfectly innocuous post. If it was meant to be humorous, a smiley might have helped. As it is it's certainly not funny.
:o :( :?
Meanwhile show me the evidence.

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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 9th, 2016, 10:49 am

It depends upon whose work you are a fan of. For Cervon lovers, you'll want the later volumes (though all of his mature work is on video cassettes, which he started using when he stopped taking written notes).

For Vernon and Jennings fans (and Giorgio, too), the first two volumes are ones to have. I think the bulk of the material in 3 is Cervon's, though there is still some Jennings material.
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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby Ryan Matney » June 9th, 2016, 2:23 pm

Richard,

Did you pull any Jennings tricks from the Castle Notebooks for your upcoming Larry Jennings books?
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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby Joneseymagic » June 9th, 2016, 4:04 pm

Sounds like I've got the ones I want then Richard. As a side issue - do you know why the Vernon Chronicles books stopped after vol 3? In the foreword it mentions more material drawn from the Castle notes and other sources were on the way. Vol 4, however, was the biography and, after that, nothing!

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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby Richard Kaufman » June 9th, 2016, 6:39 pm

There is a lot of material by Vernon that has never seen print, and at this point it appears that it never will.

I have no idea why the Vernon Chronicles stopped at No.3. If they'd let me do the book, it would all been done at once, in one enormous volume like Greater Magic. I got screwed on that job. But I can tell you that Cervon forced Jennings out of the project, and Jennings had a lot of Vernon material that is now gone to the best of my knowledge. He told BJ to burn it when he died and it seems she did.

As far as Jennings own material in the Notebooks, it is written up with little subtlety by Cervon. Larry would never have published it in that form. The worthwhile items I will rewrite thoroughly and include in the upcoming Jennings books with full descriptions with all the details of Larry's technique. Not all the material is good. The material which Jennings gave me directly is, for the most part, better. He'd been recording his material on audio cassettes since the late 1960s when he became distrustful of Bruce.
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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby John LeBlanc » June 9th, 2016, 8:34 pm

Richard, do you know how much of that material overlaps the four notebooks sold in the Potter auction a couple of years ago?

John

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Re: New release of Cervon Notebooks

Postby erdnasephile » June 9th, 2016, 8:47 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:It depends upon whose work you are a fan of. For Cervon lovers, you'll want the later volumes (though all of his mature work is on video cassettes, which he started using when he stopped taking written notes).


Does anyone know what became of those video cassettes?

In addition, before he passed, Jim Patton talked about a possible release of Mr. Cervon's himber ring routine. Does anyone know the status of that project?


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