Are we living in a golden age of magic?

Discuss the latest news and rumors in the magic world.
Philippe Noël
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Re: Are we living in a golden age of magic?

Postby Philippe Noël » January 2nd, 2016, 1:58 pm

Hi Brad,
I am very sorry to hear that you got insulted for what I consider to be a very interesting point of view on the state of our art. It's great that we do not always share the same point of view because it is that that makes for interesting discussions.
If I may say it, I do not understand why you care so much about some bad magicians who do dvds and try to sell them. Just don't buy them and listen the Skinner tapes instead. :-)

Brad Henderson
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Re: Are we living in a golden age of magic?

Postby Brad Henderson » January 2nd, 2016, 2:34 pm

because when poor models are Held up as a high standard, we guarantee stagnation and prevent growth. An exposure video on YouTube guarantees a bad experience for the layman who seeks it out, and while that is unfortunate, it pails in comparison to the damage done when many laypeople are 'exposed' to bad magic, thoughtlessly performed.

If we want better magicians we need better models who demonstrate artistic values. This often, if not always, works at cross purposes to the marketplace/popularity mentality. In magic, popularity trumps all other qualities. Which is why popular people regularly get passes for egregious behavior. And it 'mr well liked' does it, why shouldn't we - we want to be famous and well liked too. Sadly this fame, as performer wisely pointed out, is limited to the world of magic and feeds on its incestuous value system. it's rather like being well known in your apartment complex!

Brad Henderson
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Re: Are we living in a golden age of magic?

Postby Brad Henderson » January 2nd, 2016, 2:35 pm

Also, Phillipe, I have enjoyed and appreciated our discussion. It only more here were capable of productive engagement

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Bill Marquardt
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Re: Are we living in a golden age of magic?

Postby Bill Marquardt » January 2nd, 2016, 2:42 pm

What I appreciate about this "age" is that the vast majority of notable magicians are so accessible. In the world of magic I am not worth mentioning, a mediocre performer at best, and yet I have met and chatted with such greats as Daryl, Penn, Teller, Michael Ammar, Randi, Max Maven, and a score of other well-known magicians, many of whom have appeared on Fool Us and AGT. And not to forget, Richard Kaufman and Dustin Stinett. To a man they were friendly and seemed happy to chat. I even ran into Dai Vernon in a Hollywood bar many years ago.

It is true that there is a lot of questionable stuff being marketed today. I could only guess at the percentage of good versus bad. In spite of that, we are blessed to have a huge number of genuinely talented, creative, and magnificent performers among us. Will this be known as a Golden Age in the future? Hard to say.

Philippe Noël
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Re: Are we living in a golden age of magic?

Postby Philippe Noël » January 2nd, 2016, 2:56 pm

Hi Erdnasephile,
You asked "Who are the magic "suns" of today that are drawing people to them?"
Any answer to such question is of course subjectif but it's a fact that Jeff Mac Bride and Eugene Burger are drawing people to their Mystery School.
I think that many people would love to be taught by Max Maven or Derren Brown if it was possible.
You also asked:"Are there still people making cross country journey's to hunt down a single gambling move?" Well, perhaps, I don't know but there are already so much good things to learn from and that are reasonably easy to obtain. Have you already thought what a Vernon or a Marlo would have thought of the chances we have to be able to read Cardshark, Scams & Fantasies with cardds, Lessons in Card Mastery, Dear Mr Fantasy, One Degree or Destroyers to name a few?
Let's never forget that we have the incredible opportunity to "sit on the shoulders of giants".

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erdnasephile
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Re: Are we living in a golden age of magic?

Postby erdnasephile » January 2nd, 2016, 3:35 pm

Hi, Philippe:

Yes, certainly many are traveling to Mystery School and other amazingly worthwhile seminars. However, what I was referring to was the presence of magicians so renowned that people literally left their lives behind to go move to another city full time to study with them the way those I cited did to sit with Vernon.

There are undoubtedly superlative magicians and teachers in the world today, but none (in my humble opinion) who have revolutionized the way people think about magic the way Vernon did, which is one thing that drew those people to him. Also, look at some of the "coaching tree" Vernon spawned (e.g., Miller, Carney, Cervon, Jennings, White, Thompson, Riser) which are perhaps his greatest legacy. Marlophiles could certainly boast of a similar star-studded set of masters he nurtured as well.

IMHO, perhaps the best current exemplar of the type of excitement, synergy and dedication to magic present in the Vernon Castle days is the Spanish school. Dani, Miguel, and Christian described some of their experiences at one of their workshops and it sounds glorious!
Last edited by erdnasephile on January 2nd, 2016, 4:17 pm, edited 5 times in total.

houdinisghost
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Re: Are we living in a golden age of magic?

Postby houdinisghost » January 2nd, 2016, 3:40 pm

If you are living in Los Angeles, and you belong to the Magic Castle, the answer is a resounding yes. We regularly have geniuses entertaining in the various rooms -- and every act displays professionalism. And they fool and entertain the suckers -- the laymen guests -- and me if they get too far ahead of me. The lectures. Valentine, Vincent, Haydn, Ogawa. The library where people are learning. Zabrecky was in there every night for ten years.

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Re: Are we living in a golden age of magic?

Postby Jack Shalom » January 2nd, 2016, 6:06 pm

Brad Henderson wrote:because when poor models are Held up as a high standard, we guarantee stagnation and prevent growth. An exposure video on YouTube guarantees a bad experience for the layman who seeks it out, and while that is unfortunate, it pails in comparison to the damage done when many laypeople are 'exposed' to bad magic, thoughtlessly performed.

If we want better magicians we need better models who demonstrate artistic values. This often, if not always, works at cross purposes to the marketplace/popularity mentality. In magic, popularity trumps all other qualities. Which is why popular people regularly get passes for egregious behavior. And it 'mr well liked' does it, why shouldn't we - we want to be famous and well liked too. Sadly this fame, as performer wisely pointed out, is limited to the world of magic and feeds on its incestuous value system. it's rather like being well known in your apartment complex!


Dig out your old hard cover Tannen's catalog or equivalent. Sturgeon's Law still held. Same as it ever was. When was this wonderful golden age when there was no abundance of bad magic?

Brad Henderson
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Re: Are we living in a golden age of magic?

Postby Brad Henderson » January 2nd, 2016, 6:43 pm

But how easy was it for the idiot magician to foist his crappy tricks onto lay people? And even though there has always been bad magic, we had gate keepers. If you wanted a book published, someone had to believe it was worth something before it could get into print. While the democratization of the tools of production has unquestionably allowed for greater access to material, some of it great, I'm not sure if we can argue the percentage is the same. Thoughtful people are not putting out more material - they still spend the same amount of time honing and perfecting. The change then is that we have bred a community that believes fame among magicians is a noble goal, and that the path thereto is in selling crap.

Philippe Noël
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Re: Are we living in a golden age of magic?

Postby Philippe Noël » January 3rd, 2016, 11:51 am

Hi Brad,
I was thinking about your comments on Oz Pearlman:

You suggest Oz is worth watching. This man has never indicated by his performance choices that he has any understanding at all what the effect is that he is presenting. He seemingly believes enthusiasm is the same as 'character' and I have seen monkeys that have a better command of scripting. He is a magic dealer, thrust too early into a role of authority, and has near zero understanding of how to present mentalism. He succeeds because of the qualities of mentalism itself, inspite of his own choices. We do NOT need more wannabe mind readers following his lead (unless your only measure of success is lasting through a faux reality talent themed freak show.


Personaly I found him very good on AGT, taking into account the short time he had to convince the jury. His character is a little bit arrogant but I think that it is just his character.

Philippe Noël
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Re: Are we living in a golden age of magic?

Postby Philippe Noël » January 3rd, 2016, 12:13 pm

I think that if I had to sum up in two words why I think we are living a golden age of magic, those two words would be:
Accessibility
Never before good magic has been so easily accessible thanks to internet.

Popularity
I think that magic has never been as popular as it is now thanks to internet.

I.M. Magician
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Re: Are we living in a golden age of magic?

Postby I.M. Magician » January 3rd, 2016, 12:21 pm

Here's a thought. Will this moment in time be considered the golden age of magic say fifty years from now?

My point is, people tend to like the way it was, not is, in many situations. I'm talking about human nature. It doesn't apply to everything but lots of things.

Brad Henderson
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Re: Are we living in a golden age of magic?

Postby Brad Henderson » January 3rd, 2016, 2:22 pm

My issue with Oz's work is that he is internally inconsistent withing the premise he has established. an example from an earlier TV premise: he reads the spectators mind and then reveals he had written in advance the content just deciphered by telepathy. Why read someone's mind if you already have the info written down???? I don't recall his acts on AGT with great clarity at this point, but remember him asking Mel b to write stuff down and keep a secret when this in no way was relevant to the alleged phenomenon being presented. It is something that a magician would do who thinks solely about secrets and nethods, not effect. When someone tells a mind reader 'I don't know how you did it' we are not always dealing with the compliment we think we are. if you are a mind reader the audience ahould know exactly how you did it - you read their mind. when the audience is clear on the effect and it's alleged method they respond differently than 'how did you do that?'. Not always, of course, because we have taught them to care about secrets. But as a rule, when the audience knows that you are using magic, or psychology, or telepathy, or an invisible spirit, their responses reflect tomore than just the puzzle.

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Re: Are we living in a golden age of magic?

Postby performer » January 5th, 2016, 9:06 am

houdinisghost wrote:If you are living in Los Angeles, and you belong to the Magic Castle, the answer is a resounding yes. We regularly have geniuses entertaining in the various rooms -- and every act displays professionalism. And they fool and entertain the suckers -- the laymen guests -- and me if they get too far ahead of me. The lectures. Valentine, Vincent, Haydn, Ogawa. The library where people are learning. Zabrecky was in there every night for ten years.



I have never been to the Magic Castle but James Munton has. He said all the performers were awful!


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