The Genii Forum

Was delighted and surprised to read about David Ben's new interpretation of EATCT in the latest issue of MAGIC. Went to the Magicana website, but couldn't find info there yet. This book looks like a must get if you love studying Erdnase.

For more information about the book, visit: http://www.magicana.com/theexperts

Yay! Thanks, Ms Eng!!!

The first of three volumes!

This is very exciting news - and three volumes!
Thanks for the link.

I see that Mr Ben has concluded that Erdnase was E.S. Andrews.

Q. Kumber wrote:I see that Mr Ben has concluded that Erdnase was E.S. Andrews.

He gave the details here, back in 2011:
http://magicol.magicana.com/magicol-past-issues/no-180/

Roger M. wrote:He gave the details here, back in 2011:
http://magicol.magicana.com/magicol-past-issues/no-180/

Thanks for the link. The article title made me chuckle so much I just subscribed to Magicol.

I suggest the co-author is really N.E.B. Divad. Documentary proof to follow.

I recently had the privilege of scanning the layout of this new book. It is a thing of beauty. I'm very much looking forward to it.

For a limited time, we have a pre-publication offer on The Experts at the Card Table available on our website:

http://www.magicana.com/theexperts

USA / $70 USD and FREE shipping

International / $70 USD and discounted shipping of $25

Canada / $100 CDN including shipping and HST

We will soon be offering the Limited Edition version. We are aiming to ship in July.

I'm really excited to see this book, finally, at the printers. It has been a very long time in the making. I do have to admit, while it has been a killer project, it has also been a very rewarding journey. I hope you all enjoy the book as much as I do!

Oops..I just ordered a regular edition and didn't know about the limited edition.

Ms. Eng: may I please ask: what will the limited edition entail?

erdnasephile wrote:Oops..I just ordered a regular edition and didn't know about the limited edition.

Ms. Eng: may I please ask: what will the limited edition entail?

Don't worry if you have ordered already. You will have an opportunity to upgrade, if you wish. We are working out the shipping cost for the Limited Editions, so I will share all the great features of the Limited Edition soon!

Cheers!

Thank you!

This is tremendous news! Things have sure been busy at Magicana!

Matt Field

Matt

Yes, things have been VERY busy at Magicana. We have many more projects on the go, some of which will be announced in the coming months. (Vernon Vol 2, while in development, is not one of them. Sorry.)

I am, however, thrilled that the first volume of our so-called Erdnase trilogy is at the printers. Of course, writers/artists hope that their latest work is their best work. And, we hope that is the case here. It sure has a shot at it because of the tremendous team behind it - Kevin McGroarty, Michael Albright and Julie Eng all worked on the design (incredibly important and incredibly difficult) and Julie shot some stunning photographs (three times).

By the way, I would like to thank Bob Farmer for the title! He certainly has a way with words.

It's the first of three volumes? Can you give us a rough overview of how the books are going to be divided?

On a side note, is the Dad Stevens book still in the long grass or will some of that material make it into these volumes?

Volume One is a restructuring and substantial editing of the Card Table Artifice section of The Expert at the Card Table. The material is presented in a new schematic order, one that I believe presents the information, and system, with greater clarity. Marshall Smith's illustrations have been discarded, and replaced with over 750 photographs by Julie Eng of my hands performing virtually everything in that section.

Volume Two will be my annotations - a meditation really - on the content of Volume One, insights based on nearly 40 years of my study of the material, and my work with or on, among others, Ross Bertram, Herb Zarrow, and Dai Vernon. The goal is not to duplicate the technical notes in other annotated copies, except as points for departure for additional commentary.

Volume Three will explore gaps in Erdnase, and how others, particularly Dad Stevens and Dai Vernon, filled the void. So this will include exhaustive treatments on pull-out shuffles, push-through shuffles, full-deck false shuffles, table shifts, second deals and hand-mucking. It will also explore advanced work on the Beanshooter and "Bug", as developed by Ross Bertram.

All of the Stevens material will work its way into Volume Three.

I have been advised to divide the material into three volumes because it is too much information to absorb at one time. You can't really, in my opinion, do the Stevens work justice, for example, until you have a thorough understand of the information in Erdnase, the gaps in Erdnase, and what has been developed - directly or indirectly - as a result.

Hope this answers your question.

David Ben wrote:I have been advised to divide the material into three volumes because it is too much information to absorb at one time.

I am interested in the project. However, my pocket would have preferred one book, with one shipping fee.

Now I am looking at 3 books with 3 shipping fees...

Is the Tenyo book being published in 3 volumes? Was the Bammo Ten Card Deal Dossier published in three volumes (now there's a lot of information to digest!)?

I can understand from a marketing perspective to publish 3 volumes. I am not sure that this decision was made purely to make my absorption of the material easier. Although DVDs might help a lot.

The Tenyo book is being published in two 700-page volumes simultaneously for $250.
I don't see any comparison there at all.

And instead of nitpicking, you might want to take into account that these books are the result of 30 years of study.

I don't believe PickaCard is nitpicking. The cost of postage is high. Universally. (And the rate goes up with the weight of the book.)

Profiting from multiple volumes was the last thing on our mind. (Those who know our work realize that the time it takes to write, prepare, publish and distribute far outweigh the meagre return most works generate.)

The real reason, as stated, was to give those seriously interested in the subject the chance to revisit the work with greater insight so that they can actually perform the material. That, unfortunately, takes time.

The material in the Bammo book is largely self-working. You pick one or two routines and you perform them.

Tenyo material is famous for being as easy to execute as it is clever in design.

The material in The Experts at the Card Table ranks amongst the most difficult sleight-of-hand that there is to perform. Decades of experience has also taught me that the Stevens work is unobtainable unless you have a thorough understanding of Erdnase, and the gaps in it - the Pull Out and Push Through shuffles, for example - because the Stevens work is largely improvisational, and requires one to flow effortlessly between the Riffle Cull, the Control, the Pull Out and the Push Through Shuffles.

I - and others - were afraid that if it was presented all in one volume, most would skip towards the "new" material, i.e. the Stevens work, and become frustrated with a lack of progress, unaware that a thorough mastery of what came before it was an essential component of the work. The book would then be retired to the shelf, stacked beside other weighty and rarely opened tomes.

Finally, who knows how long it will take me to complete Volume Two and Volume Three. I have to complete Vernon Volume Two first!

Point taken Mr. Kaufman and Mr. Ben, especially since volume 2 and 3 are not even ready for print.

I believe my most important point as someone who intends to order the book and learn the material was about the DVDs.

I hope there will be a way to add visual understanding of the sleights to the great description in the book.

We have also looked into DVDs or downloads of the material. Daniel Zuckerbrot (the director of the Dai Vernon - The Spirit of Magic, amongst other magic-related films) and I have been discussing this for years. Julie Eng has shot a great deal of footage of me performing the material already. Again, we are trying to figure out the best format. (As an aside, we are also developing a major magic download network on Magicana, part of which may include Erdnase material.)

I believe, however, at this point in time that it is far easier to learn the material from the layout of the photos in our new publication. We intentionally shot them like storyboards, with macro lenses for many of the shots, to capture and emphasize the details that are ever so important. They were also designed to communicate flow - how to get into and out of each component - so that you can understand the rhythm and timing required. I believe that most who study video or DVD footage try to absorb these concepts through osmosis rather than by studying and understanding - thoroughly understanding Erdnase might say - every little component of the movement or sleight.

Yes, I understand that some people learn better from DVDs rather than books. For me, for now, I can communicate far more information in print (and with photographs) than I can through video, and it is easier - I believe - for people to spot and start at a word on a page or a picture, and go back and forth, make annotations, etc, than one can with a DVD or download. (Although, if you visit Magicana.com and register for some of our online videos, you will get the explanation to a couple of effects that communicate much nuance in under ten minutes.)

I suppose that it is also a question of having so many projects, and so little time.

David Ben wrote:I suppose that it is also a question of having so many projects, and so little time.

I like your projects,David.
Take your time

Thanks, Jim, for your comment. Much appreciated.

As for this most recent project, Stan Allen has kindly allowed us to reproduce the interview with me about the book that appeared recently in MAGIC. Here is the link.

http://www.magicana.com/buy/publication ... card-table

(Click on "Unshuffling Erdnase", bottom right of page. ) It will give you more information about the project.

My order's in!

Matt Field

David, can you comment briefly on the books binding, question being - does the book lie flat on a table?

I've damaged more than a few books having to lay something heavy across the top while going through the (sometimes lengthy) efforts to learn a new move.

One of our goals was to ensure that the book could be opened comfortably, and remain open, so that two pages could be processed at the same time. Hence, the two page spread - storyboard style - of images.

Technically the binding is: gathered, sewn, square back (board in spine), encased complete with headbands.

Although the book is not designed to be opened perfectly flat, the breadth, the size and the weight of the pages allow the book to be opened comfortably, and remain open, without stressing the spine. We are mirroring, to a large extent, the size and binding of our most recent book, Slaight: Off-Hand. (We discovered that the Slaight book opened beautifully, and remained open, so that we could work with two-page spreads at a time.)

There should be no need to pin down the pages while studying a move. So, you should be fine.

Any details on the limited edition?

Andrew

Great interview about the book, thanks for the link. Given the comparison of Erdnase to Bach inventions, perhaps this should have been called "The Well-Tempered Deck."
Really looking forward to this! And the subsequent volumes!

Any book that is smyth sewn, rather than done as a notch adhesive binding, will lay flat when open.

I had thought my question regarding binding/lay-flat might come across as more than a bit pedantic, but I asked it anyway as it does grind on my nerves trying to hold a book open while shuffling.

It's actually quite impossible without some sort of extra hardware in contact with the book.

David and Richards detailed posts on bookbinding vs. lay-flat have indeed taught me far more than I knew when I woke up this morning on a subject far outside of my purview.

My pre-order is in.

AJM wrote:Any details on the limited edition?

Andrew

We are pleased to announce that a limited, numbered-edition of The Experts at the Card Table is now available at a special discount until June 21, 2015.

The Limited Edition will be restricted to 104 copies: 100 numbered and 4 presentation copies. Featuring all the beauty of the regular version, the Limited Edition have some additional points of interest.

First, the Limited Edition will have its own foil-stamped, forest-green slipcase to match the hardcover boards of the book.

It will also have two special tipped in items. The first is a limited-run, 5” x 7” (12.7 x 17.8 cm) photograph, taken from the book, mounted on the title page under a sheet of vellum (the protective sheet of vellum is only available in the Limited Edition).

The second item is one of the playing cards from the two decks which were used by David Ben in the photos in the book. This card will be inserted into an archival sleeve, mounted in the book.

The Limited Edition will be signed by David Ben and Julie Eng. E.S. Andrews is no longer with us.

PRICE

The pre-publication price for the Limited Edition is $125 plus discounted shipping of $10 (or $40 international). (Canadian pricing: $153 CDN plus $20 shipping). After June 21, the published price becomes $150 plus regular shipping; and $187.50 CDN plus regular shipping).

The Limited Edition will take longer to deliver due to the hand assembly required. Thank you in advance for your understanding.

ORDER
http://www.magicana.com/theexperts

UPGRADE?
If you have already ordered the regular edition and would like to upgrade, please email Julie Eng julie@magicana.com and we will be happy to assist.

Many thanks Julie - my order for a limited edition copy has been placed.

Looking forward to this release immensely.

Best regards

Andrew

AJM wrote:Many thanks Julie - my order for a limited edition copy has been placed.

Looking forward to this release immensely.

Best regards

Andrew

Fabulous! Thanks Andrew. I see it came in! We'll be in touch....

Julie

Ordering this book will be a no-brainer. I will confess that I was excited that David mentioned that he had to finish the Vernon biography.

Thank you for everyone's interest in The Experts at the Card Table.

To answer some of your emails, yes, there are a few Limited Editions available. Let me know by email (julie at magicana dot com) if you need any specific details.

There have also been some great questions and comments about The Experts since we released the pre-publication offer. Well, I have managed to convince David Ben to share some of his insights about the book (how it came to be, what motivated him to create it, what makes it different, and the like). We will reveal his thoughts and musings in a blog series #theexperts on our Sharing Wonder blog (http://www.magicana.com/blog). I may even manage to get an interesting photo or two out of him.

The first post is now up and features a photo of Dai Vernon in honour of his birthday today. Hope you guys find it all interesting.

It's shipped! For all the pre-publication orders, we have received confirmation that books were sent out today. I hope you like it as much as we do!

I am looking forward to spending some time with this book.

Some time? LOTS OF TIME. Years!