Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

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Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby Richard Kaufman » April 4th, 2014, 6:11 pm

This really rocks:
http://www.murphysmagic.com/Product.aspx?id=52196
An incredible design by Lubor Fiedler and Paul Harris for the boxes.
GREAT. Improves the illusion.
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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby AJM » April 4th, 2014, 6:40 pm

This looks great - I'll certainly be looking to order one of these.

While I'm here, I've been looking for a Tenyo Parabox for some time although so far I've been unable to track one down - if anyone has a spare one that they are willing to part with then please let me know and hopefully we can work something out.

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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby lybrary » April 4th, 2014, 7:16 pm

This is an amazing design. Love it. The Gozinta Boxes are my favorite Fiedler effect. But when it comes to BEST I would like to enter my own rendition. Behold the Triple Gozinta Boxes seen here http://www.lybrary.com/triple-gozinta-boxes-a-23.html

Notice that the small box has a shallow lid. If you know how the Gozinta boxes work that shallow lid should stop you in your tracks and make you think.
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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby Brad Henderson » April 4th, 2014, 7:26 pm

seems a waste to not have sometbing special waiting inside the innermost box. With a flat load one can even repeat that when the boxes are opened the second time!

Heck - do bill and lemon and card to box at same time. inside inner box on first phase is lemon with duplicate torn corner bill. load a signed card into "package"box (little sticky on the inside maybe) as you show the boxes have switched.

reveal bill in lemon.

have them open the boxes and reveal signed card or other marked and loaded object there.

also - check out dan Garrett's Martian rabbit egg routine if you have small boxes and all of those gosh man gimmicks. fun stuff. killer for a magic club.

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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby John Signa » April 4th, 2014, 7:30 pm

Brad Henderson wrote:seems a waste to not have sometbing special waiting inside the innermost box. With a flat load one can even repeat that when the boxes are opened the second time!

As in Tenyo's Parabox?
http://tenyo-magic.blogspot.com/2010/05/t-161-parabox.html

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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby Brad Henderson » April 4th, 2014, 7:32 pm

with a little thought I bet one could do a double bill to impossible location

Can use clever structure to suggest both bills signed and marked! (Richardson) Load the second "actually" signed bill into envelope or 'wallet' stuck inside the original outer most box.

one could make it seem like that bill was still in full view (working with two bills makes perfect time for one ahead!). imagine how clean with that bill vanishes and ends up in the obviously empty box set they are holding.

just remember who told you!

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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby Brad Henderson » April 4th, 2014, 7:34 pm

John Signa wrote:
Brad Henderson wrote:seems a waste to not have sometbing special waiting inside the innermost box. With a flat load one can even repeat that when the boxes are opened the second time!

As in Tenyo's Parabox?
http://tenyo-magic.blogspot.com/2010/05/t-161-parabox.html


I became familiar with the load and double/triple load idea from Garrett's work. I believe his was many years prior to tenyo's release. I do not know the para id handling. will check your link.

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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby lybrary » April 4th, 2014, 7:36 pm

Brad, that is along the line of the Tenyo version with sponge balls. But I don't agree with the reasoning. The beauty of the Gozinta boxes is their simplicity which enhances the illusion. Once you start adding other effects, things appearing, it distracts from the impossibility of the boxes nesting. I think less is more in this case.
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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby Brad Henderson » April 4th, 2014, 10:29 pm

to each their own. I find the effect too subtle for most people. I have never been able to sell it as strongly as the quality of the trick itself warrants. Nor have I ever seen anyone do so. (as an effect) Magicians love it of course as it is so clever and the watch things closely.

Of course there are some nice versions of the now classic dreibeck die story line (including one by steinmeyer). With this story the 'puzzling thing' becomes a nice entertaining novelty piece, made so because the story really clarifies things (to the detriment of subtlety) and it has a nice third beat ending.

As a cool oddity to have around the house - absolutely, less is more. but this is not a traditional commercial performance space dynamic. Even still it may still make sense for there to be something in the gift box. I mean, what was the gift? was it as cool as the box? im interested. There is an opportunity there.

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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby Richard Kaufman » April 5th, 2014, 1:07 am

I believe Ali Bongo was the first to produce a spongeball from a "Gozinta Box." If anyone has a reference for that, I'd be grateful.
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Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby Arcato » April 5th, 2014, 5:33 am

Brad Henderson wrote:Of course there are some nice versions of the now classic dreibeck die story line (including one by steinmeyer).

Brad, can you elaborate a bit more on Steinmeyer's variation? Was it published anywhere or did he just perform it at some point?
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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby Tom Moore » April 5th, 2014, 6:16 am

Richard - no specific references but i can confirm Ali was obsessed with producing objects from within gozinta boxes (or indeed any box, his mantra was never to show a box is empty & normal, always prove it by using it to hold something that apparently fills the box that you can remove) I can vividly remember gozinta appearing on various shows he consulted on and every time there being "something" that appeared in the boxes. One of the Paul Daniels christmas specials had one as a box inside a giftwrap box which culminated in the production of a christmas pudding (a giant brown sponge ball) in what was essentially the same method as the later Parabox effect.
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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby Tom Stone » April 5th, 2014, 6:54 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:I believe Ali Bongo was the first to produce a spongeball from a "Gozinta Box." If anyone has a reference for that, I'd be grateful.

Scott Penrose showed me one of Ali Bongo's solutions where a cannon ball (a large black solid ball of wood) was produced from within the boxes.

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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby Brad Henderson » April 5th, 2014, 9:43 am

I believe steinmeyer scripted the die for the mark kalin and ginger show. can't recall if I read that or he mentioned it at magic live

(edited because maybe I was just and idiot)

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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby mrgoat » April 5th, 2014, 10:57 am

Looks like a nicely made, $100 puzzle. Can't see much magical about it.

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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby Richard Kaufman » April 5th, 2014, 12:29 pm

I believe that puts you in the minority.
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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby mrgoat » April 5th, 2014, 12:34 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:I believe that puts you in the minority.


a) I am usually in the minority. I don't like McDonalds, X-Factor or Britain's Got Talent. Usually, then the majority like something, it's bad.

b) Can you explain the 'magic' aspect? Maybe I'm missing it. You take a box, take a gift box out of it, which has no gift in it, then place the packing box in the gift box after turning it 90 degrees.

What's magical about that? Puzzling, sure. Magical? Not so much.

Maybe there is a link to a video of someone doing a magical presentation of it you could share?

Maybe the magic part is getting magi to pay $100 for two small ungimmicked boxes?

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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby Brad Jeffers » April 5th, 2014, 12:54 pm


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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby Richard Kaufman » April 5th, 2014, 1:16 pm

Thank you, Mr. Moore! That was exactly what I was looking for.
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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby Richard Kaufman » April 5th, 2014, 3:30 pm

And speaking of Gozinta Boxes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8yN2ZwsOZg
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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby Q. Kumber » April 5th, 2014, 3:32 pm

I'm with Damian on this one.

I agree that Lubor Fiedler is a creative genius. I also agree that this new design is better than the original but it is still a puzzle, a magical puzzle if you like.

The most commercial version, in my opinion was the Driebeck Die, marketed by Ken Brooke, and now available from Stevens Magic. You can see a clip of it here:

http://www.stevensmagic.com/shop/driebe ... oke-large/

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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby erdnasephile » April 5th, 2014, 3:52 pm

The black stripe on the Driebeck die seems to emphasize the "fat lip" on the bottom edge. I think one of the advantages of the new version is that this is concealed a little better.
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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby Jonathan Townsend » April 5th, 2014, 3:54 pm

There's some subtle handling of the props in that video for the Driebeck Die - is that part of the Ken Brooke manuscript?
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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby themaestro » April 5th, 2014, 5:42 pm

By my aesthetic... if you are going to provide a context for the boxes, i.e. shipping and gift box, then the strongest presentation is one that provides a context to put the shipping box into the gift box. Plus for the effect to have weight it needs build up... Also the gift box seems to beg for a gift, and yet how do you have a gift that doesn't overshadow the boxes which is the effect?

While you can--and I have--come up with contextual premises that don't actually involve a gift, here is a presentation that answers those problems in a humorous way--at least to me. I call it...

THE MAGIC INTERNET
by Nowlin

Do you ever wonder how you ever lived without the internet?

It’s so… magical… especially for shopping. I used to dread the prospect of finding my sister a proper present.. but now without leaving the house--or even my recliner--I just wave a piece of plastic and there will appear at my door step the perfect gift… box.

You see my sister always seemed to care more about the box than the actual present inside. Now in the old days I just had to use whatever box or wrapping paper I could find at my house or Walmart and hope it didn’t ruin the actual present for her. But now with The Magic Internet I got her a Pagan Dior Designer Gift Box for only $50 with FREE shipping and handling.
Of course after buying the box I could only afford to get her this* from the Dollar Store. (Take rubber chicken out of pocket or case).
Of course the real problem is that it wouldn’t quite fit into the gift box. Almost… but not quite… which was so frustrating… you think if you push just a little bit harder, but then if you push too hard you may tear the over priced piece of cardboard crap.
The most irritating thing , though, was it would fit perfectly in the shipping box… which of course I couldn’t give my sister that! I was quite distraught…and then it dawned on me… it was so simple it was brilliant….
If the chicken wouldn’t fit into the gift box, then put it into the shipping box where it would fit, and then put the shipping box into the beautifully gorgeous designer gift box.
Which she loved by the way. (So hopefully she hasn't noticed it missing.)

*The object could vary and be from garage sale, Salvation army, etc instead… , but it seems something like a chicken or some piece of awful clothing or fabric would be easiest to make look like it couldn’t be stuffed into one box, but get it into the other.

Nowlin

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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby Joe Mckay » April 5th, 2014, 5:50 pm

This is what I wrote on The Magic Cafe:

Paul Harris is a big fan of organic moments which can be used as a lead-in to a different effect.

Pieces of strange which can be used as conversation starters...

I am guessing this is the direction he is pushing for this use of the Gozinta Boxes principle.

It is hard to capture such moments on a magic trailer.

I imagine you would place the trick you want to perform inside the box - and have the Gozinta Box effect as a casual one which you hope spectators notice, as you open the boxes to remove the trick. Before going into the effect you wanted to show them.

A trick within a trick - so to speak...

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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby Jonathan Townsend » April 5th, 2014, 9:31 pm

The white shipping box for the new Lubor/PH production is an improvement over the older abstract black and white of the box for the Driebeck Die. Bravo!

What I imagine the thing as is a sort of spellbound where the bigger/smaller shift works like the spellbound color changes.

@Chris - those s/m/l boxes are great! congrats!
What Chris did suggested using a "recycle" green triangular logo pattern for a second white box.

And thanks for showing the Tenyo Parabox item. The productions offer the boxes a context in the same way as the Driebeck item where the die becomes "oriental" offers the trick a finish.
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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby Richard Kaufman » April 6th, 2014, 1:16 pm

I should mention that the idea of using a die is not Bob Driebeck's. Lubor's original version of "Gozinta Boxes" that he performed at FISM, and to which he sold the rights to Supreme Magic, used a large die and a box. The only thing Driebeck added was the kicker.
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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby Dustin Stinett » April 6th, 2014, 2:50 pm

Brad Henderson wrote:I believe steinmeyer scripted the die for the mark kalin and ginger show. can't recall if I read that or he mentioned it at magic live

The last time I saw him, Mark was using Mike Caveney's presentation (with Mike's blessing).

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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby Ross Welford » April 6th, 2014, 4:22 pm

I bought one of the originals from Supreme Magic when I was about 15 in the late 70s. From the written ad, I was utterly baffled and I probably bought it just to find out how it worked. Well, at that age I hardly had any regular gigs apart from once a year at the church pie-and-pea supper. I think it was £5.

Anyway, in the intervening decades, I have tried presenting it a number of different ways and it has never been a wow effect. It may well just be me...

I'm never sure if people are just not that bothered, or if they're not at all puzzled. I dunno.

I'm looking at it now. A bit scuffed and faded and still looking for a good presentation. The boxes, too.

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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby Steve Bryant » April 6th, 2014, 5:08 pm

The video was very funny, Richard.

I've seen Jay Marshall perform it on stage at a small convention in Kentucky, and it played well. (Of course, to an audience of magicians. ) I can't recall the patter, but it worked.

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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby Paul Green » April 7th, 2014, 10:20 am

Hi Everyone,

I love the Dreibeck Die. The kicker ending sells and completes the routine. Terry Elton has a great routine! My routine is based on the Ken Brooke routine and I must say that it plays well for me.

Enjoy the Search!

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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby KHC » April 7th, 2014, 11:15 am

While I was quite excited when I saw the demo on Murphy's site, my enthusiasm waned after showing the demo video to my wife...she was not impressed. Granted she is the wife of a long time hobbyist, but she did sway me into agreeing with her after her lackluster response. What it eventually boiled down to for me was that it was a cool puzzle. I did however like the demo of Parabox with the sponge balls and all.

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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby Richard Kaufman » April 7th, 2014, 12:28 pm

Whether it comes across as a puzzle or as magical depends entirely upon your presentation. And showing someone a video of a trick isn't a good way to judge it. Magic is meant to be seen live.
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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby Jonathan Townsend » April 7th, 2014, 1:11 pm

Presentation is its own thing. if a trick works as magic - it works. A set of prop boxes that only we know are made of solid materials and so don't expand or contract... is a gag. In this case a very well designed gag.
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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby Richard Kaufman » April 7th, 2014, 1:23 pm

Jonathan, a gag is a joke. Gozinta Boxes are not a joke, it's a trick.
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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby Brad Henderson » April 7th, 2014, 1:28 pm

As I confessed, I have not seen or figured out a way which really sells the 'magic' of this effect. At best I have managed curious intrigue - and even then I'm not sure everyone even 'gets it'.

any suggestions from those with experience really getting killer reactions for these?

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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby Jonathan Townsend » April 7th, 2014, 1:35 pm

Let's say the audience imagines the boxes are elastic - they are not fooled as they have some sufficient explanation to work with.

If the boxes were examined and after the in/out exchange they were examined again and found to only fit that way - i'd agree. It's the same problem as with optical illusions. It's obvious that the particular words spoken and the way you waved the wand did not account for the magic. ;)

Still impressive and attractive design work.

I expect someone's going to do something like the Driebeck thing but with a dove design on a box and a live dove production climax. Bird box, birdfood box - put the bird box into the birdfood box and later open to have live bird. Just a guess.
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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby Tom Stone » April 7th, 2014, 2:04 pm

Brad Henderson wrote:As I confessed, I have not seen or figured out a way which really sells the 'magic' of this effect. At best I have managed curious intrigue - and even then I'm not sure everyone even 'gets it'.

any suggestions from those with experience really getting killer reactions for these?

I've seen one presentation that makes use of the weaknesses and elevates it to miracle class, audible gasps and all.

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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby Dustin Stinett » April 7th, 2014, 2:56 pm

“It’s my ballad.”

That quote comes from Mike Caveney. He said it during an interview I did with him on his new book. He was talking about a trick he does that is not in the book. It’s a marketed rope trick for which his presentation is designed to be entertaining but not overwhelming. He compared his reasoning to why rock and roll bands do ballads in the middle of their sets. It gives the audience a rest.

A good magic act does the same thing. It has moments that allow people to catch their breath—metaphorically or even literally speaking. After all, with Mike Caveney, people are laughing AND are amazed at the same time. They need a moment or two (depending on how long he is on stage).

Mike uses the Driebeck Die. I have seen him do this at public shows several times (not just at the Magic Castle; at actual public magic shows). He gets a good reaction with it—but it’s clearly not a dumbfounding mystery—and his presentation elicits laughs, but not belly laughs.

He doesn’t say it in the book, but I suspect that the Lubor Die is one of Mike’s “ballads.”

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Re: Best Version of Lubor Fiedler's Gozinta Boxes EVER

Postby Q. Kumber » April 7th, 2014, 4:23 pm

Dustin Stinett wrote:“It’s my ballad.”

That quote comes from Mike Caveney. He said it during an interview I did with him on his new book. He was talking about a trick he does that is not in the book. It’s a marketed rope trick for which his presentation is designed to be entertaining but not overwhelming. He compared his reasoning to why rock and roll bands do ballads in the middle of their sets. It gives the audience a rest.

A good magic act does the same thing. It has moments that allow people to catch their breath—metaphorically or even literally speaking. After all, with Mike Caveney, people are laughing AND are amazed at the same time. They need a moment or two (depending on how long he is on stage).

Mike uses the Driebeck Die. I have seen him do this at public shows several times (not just at the Magic Castle; at actual public magic shows). He gets a good reaction with it—but it’s clearly not a dumbfounding mystery—and his presentation elicits laughs, but not belly laughs.

He doesn’t say it in the book, but I suspect that the Lubor Die is one of Mike’s “ballads.”


Thank God for some common sense. Thank you Dustin.

In a show, structure, balance and texture are vital. As I have experienced many times at magic conventions, a well-balanced show of average acts will frequently get a far better reaction than a poorly structured show of excellent acts.


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